The Jewish people

I wish people could differentiate between Israel and Jew.

http://www.aish.com/societywork/sciencenature/Jewish_Genes .asp

The above link shows that there is a common DNA trait between Jews from all over the world.

I have no problem with Jews. I believe people whop subscribe to the "Jewish conspiracies" are deluded and are very ignorant of the past 1000 years of recorded history. The various plots that Jews were supposedly involved in, be it from censorship of the press to the friggin Plague. Oh and lets not forget the Elders of Zion document  published in Russia.

As for Israel, it is a good example of an artificial country actually working.

 

Paul, do you hate Jewish people?

I was talking with my Grandmother about this thread
and she said something I think it really interesting!

She said Jews weren't really Bosnian and I
protested, talking about everything they did to help us
during the war. She said that's why they're not
Bosnian, because they helped those in need on all
sides, regardless of their ethnic identity. I said that's
a good thing, and she said she wasn't implying it
wasn't. But helping all sides, in the Balkans, is as
dangerous as harming all sides because whether
you're seen in a good or negative way, you'll be seen
as different. She said its good they participate in
society and do good things but they should never
forget their place so they're not caught off guard. She
said you can say Yugoslav, Bosnian, and whatever
else for as long as you want, but eventually it will
come down to Croat, Serb, Bosniak, or Jew. She
said during WWII there were people who didn't know
they were Jewish until they stepped off the train at
Auschwitz and that's a crime society did to them the
same as it did to many "Muslims" at the beginning of
the genocide here.

So I said that's all fine and wonderful, but most
people wouldn't view separation in society as a good
thing and many would even attempt to use it for evil
ends. She said there's not a Jew or a Bosniak alive
today who can't spot a fascist from the next valley
over, who doens't see instantly through people,
politicial policies, choices of words, etc...no matter
how nice they might seem on the surface... that are
actually targetted against them. She said if we had
that in 1941, or in 1991, "no one would've been shot
in the back".

Originally posted by Loknar Maju, I am curious, what would you propose instead of Christianity for lace wt="on">Europelace>?

No religion is fine for me. In fact it seems we have achieved that now - if Muslims and Poles don't start interfering.

Of course we Basques had a whole belief system that was slowly destroyed by Christianity... but there were others. In any case, I don't see why do we have to be absorbed by a foreign ideology from Asian Patriarchalists.

I prefer Zeus... or whatever.

(Actually I prefer Dyonisos out of the Greek bunch, but no need to restrict to a single pantheon or belief system).

Do you want us to go back to those foolish pagan religions where druids were putting people in rocks and jamming a knife into their hearts. FO you want to go back to worshipping some Greek gods?

I don't see anything worse in Greek religion than in Christian one. At least among Greeks you could chose wether you prefered Apollo or Dyonisos, Hermes or Athena, Zeus or Artemis, Prometeus or Gaia... you had a wide choice and no need to be subject to any dogma. Also, that religion was receding pushed by analytical thought, philosophy, science... and that was good.

But Christianity came to bury our inteligence back under superstition.

lace wt="on">Europelace>�s 'roots' in that regard is quite laughable. Perhaps you will want to be a Priestess of Venus...where you will give it up to every man who engages in an act of worship. I am curious, what would you propose?

Venus? ... Sounds cool.

What I propose is no oficial religion or just some empty ritual as Romans had. We don't need to be ruled like cattle and be told what to believe and how to behave.

What's so good about Christianity? Armaggedon? The hate preachings of Paul? Or the caste system of Augustin?

What's so good about Christianity? The persecution of the Pagans? The abolition of inteligence? The promotion of feudalism?

What's so good about Christianity? Hypocrisy? Inquisition? Witch and heretics' burnings? The pact with the stabilished power? The genocide of the native peoples? Mysogynia?

We were fine before they came.

You seem quite full of hate, Maju. Cool down.

Originally posted by DemiSoda What I really want to know is 'Do the Jews really run the world Economy'.Is this conspiracy theory true?

Yes, they do. Get a list of senators.

Originally posted by Theophos You seem quite full of hate, Maju. Cool down.

That's a disqualification. If you want to discuss my emotions, which you can hardly get a grasp of via the net, btw, you should discuss why you have that impression.

Instead you're using that to avoid discussion.

You asked why I dislike Christianism. I gave you a good bunch of good reasons. Instead of discussing them you attempt to attack me personally? Why?

Because Christians like you can't carry on an inteligent discussion.

Originally posted by Maju No religion is fine for me. In fact it seems we have achieved that now - if Muslims and Poles don't start interfering. Of course we Basques had a whole belief system that was slowly destroyed by Christianity... but there were others. In any case, I don't see why do we have to be absorbed by a foreign ideology from Asian Patriarchalists.

That is how things work, beliefs are replaced by newer beliefs. The Druids and other weird 'gods' in Europe were replaced by Christianity and to be honest it is a good thing. Most European wars were for political reasons than religious ones. Can you imaging France with a Celtic religion and Germany with their own religion? Such a disunity would only inevitably lead to the worst wars. In fact, the Thirty Years War and the Crusades teach us that those religious wars are long and costly (Germany lost allot of people in the Thirty Years War). As Christians, we are united by a common faith. Of course this isn�t to say crusades, even in Europe, did not take place. But being under 1 faith is much preferable.

Also, how did Christianity destroy belief systems? Many people, believe it or not, actually embraced Christianity. I read on the eve of Constantine�s rise to power 25% of the Empire was Christian. Why do you think he used Christianity as the base of his power? Christianity actually had a good start Maju.

I prefer Zeus... or whatever. (Actually I prefer Dyonisos out of the Greek bunch, but no need to restrict to a single pantheon or belief system). Do you want us to go back to those foolish pagan religions where druids were putting people in rocks and jamming a knife into their hearts. FO you want to go back to worshipping some Greek gods? I don't see anything worse in Greek religion than in Christian one. At least among Greeks you could chose wether you prefered Apollo or Dyonisos, Hermes or Athena, Zeus or Artemis, Prometeus or Gaia... you had a wide choice and no need to be subject to any dogma. Also, that religion was receding pushed by analytical thought, philosophy, science... and that was good.

Christianity is Monotheistic, something I am proud of. And tell Aristotle that Greek religion allowed for free thought�something tells me an Atheist like you would be swallowing that poison.

But Christianity came to bury our inteligence back under superstition.

Oh really? And no other religion was supposititious? The Greeks and Romans both believed that Blacksmith gods were responsible for volcanoes...Christianity isn�t the only religion with this past. IN fact, Islam led the way in the sciences in the dark/middle ages and Christianity led the way in art and culture.

Venus? ... Sounds cool. What I propose is no oficial religion or just some empty ritual as Romans had. We don't need to be ruled like cattle and be told what to believe and how to behave.

I am not one for ritual. I am content with a relationship with God and not forcing my self on others. IN fact, Maju, I am not a religious person. I just have a huge reverence for God.

And notice, in America there is no official religion, in Europe, there are official religions.

What's so good about Christianity? Armaggedon? The hate preachings of Paul? Or the caste system of Augustin?

Armageddon, what is it? I invite you to find out. It isn�t the total destruction of everything. It is the destruction of the governments and a return to a Theocracy under God.

Hate preaching of Paul? Are you referring to his initial hate for Christians?

I never heard of this caste system... it isn�t Christian in any event. The Abrahamic faiths do not have a caste system such as Hinduism.

What's so good about Christianity? The persecution of the Pagans? The abolition of inteligence? The promotion of feudalism?

Many religions persecute the others around them, and you know it. Whether it is official or unofficial, local or wide spread. And it isn�t uncommon with ignorant and superstitious people.

Feudalism was a natural reaction to the collapse of the Roman Empire. News flash, Christianity existed (in its established power) in the Roman Empire for its last 200-300 years before the Feudal system.

What's so good about Christianity? Hypocrisy? Inquisition? Witch and heretics' burnings? The pact with the stabilished power? The genocide of the native peoples? Mysogynia? We were fine before they came.

Genocide of native people? What do you mean?

religions often establish pacts with the governments. I dont support that my self. Just because a religion did this doesnt mean i am a member of that religion, but merely the same faith.

And "we" were fine i guess. But we were pegans....I'd take the "sickness of the desert" over that crap any day. I dont want to dance around a fire with a Shaman who is doped up on monkey sh*t as a form of worship. Nor do I want to go before some statue of some Greek god and pray to it. The whole idea is revlting to me.

 

Let me tell you this, if it wasnt christianity, it would have been some other religion to do X Y and Z. Though christianity didnt do those bad things, people professing to be chrsitians did them.

Edited by Loknar

Originally posted by Loknar Originally posted by Maju No religion is fine for me. In fact it seems we have achieved that now - if Muslims and Poles don't start interfering. Of course we Basques had a whole belief system that was slowly destroyed by Christianity... but there were others. In any case, I don't see why do we have to be absorbed by a foreign ideology from Asian Patriarchalists. That is how things work, beliefs are replaced by newer beliefs. The Druids and other weird 'gods' in Europe were replaced by Christianity and to be honest it is a good thing.

It is not. We had no need of your stupid Asian monotheism that doesn't allow choice.

Most European wars were for political reasons than religious ones. Can you imaging France with a Celtic religion and Germany with their own religion? Such a disunity would only inevitably lead to the worst wars. In fact, the Thirty Years War and the Crusades teach us that those religious wars are long and costly (Germany lost allot of people in the Thirty Years War). As Christians, we are united by a common faith. Of course this isn�t to say crusades, even in Europe, did not take place. But being under 1 faith is much preferable.

What those wars show is that monotheistic people is extremely fanatic. There were no wars of religion in Antiquity. It's an Abrahmanic invention.

Also, how did Christianity destroy belief systems? Many people, believe it or not, actually embraced Christianity. I read on the eve of Constantine�s rise to power 25% of the Empire was Christian. Why do you think he used Christianity as the base of his power? Christianity actually had a good start Maju.

It's estimated that only 10% of Romans were Christian at the ascension of Constantine. But anyhow, it's simply elucubration. It is also very curious how a minority of that ridiculous size was able to take over and destroy the most powerful Empire west of China.

Christianity is Monotheistic, something I am proud of. And tell Aristotle that Greek religion allowed for free thought�something tells me an Atheist like you would be swallowing that poison.

Monotheism is stupid: not because of the idea of a single "architect" but because of the idea of definining that "architect" with a single dogma: with a unique and exclusivist theory of the Divine.

Monotheism is the essence of religious struggle because no monotheistic will ever accept the other's vision of the Divinity as valid. All monotheists want to destroy the kafirs and heathens of the World in the hope of reaching an impossible universal "brotherhood" under a single doctrine. It's essentially totalitarian - more than anything else I can imagine.

But Christianity came to bury our inteligence back under superstition. Oh really? And no other religion was supposititious? The Greeks and Romans both believed that Blacksmith gods were responsible for volcanoes...Christianity isn�t the only religion with this past. IN fact, Islam led the way in the sciences in the dark/middle ages and Christianity led the way in art and culture.

Islam is an offspring of monophysitic Christianity and other forms of Judaist proselitism.

Neither Islam nor Christianity led anything on science or culture. Humans managed to carry them ahead despite the obscurantism that both totalitarian doctrines had inmersed humankind in. This process eventually flourished in the European revolutions and the restoration of a-religiousness. A nice state that we can usually enjoy nowadays.

And notice, in America there is no official religion, in Europe, there are official religions.

You're right. And that's a shame.

Yet Europeans are nowadays much less religious than Nordamericans.

What's so good about Christianity? Armaggedon? The hate preachings of Paul? Or the caste system of Augustin? Armageddon, what is it? I invite you to find out. It isn�t the total destruction of everything. It is the destruction of the governments and a return to a Theocracy under God.

Great - you have now persuaded me that the destruction of everything is much better.

Theocracy? That's what they have in Iran, don't they?

Do you want that for your children? Do you want them to be hung till they die just because they smoked a joint or kissed someone?

Hate preaching of Paul? Are you referring to his initial hate for Christians?

Read Paul and you'll see his hate.

I never heard of this caste system... it isn�t Christian in any event. The Abrahamic faiths do not have a caste system such as Hinduism.

Read Augustin, De Civitas Dei (the city of God), where he proposes a divisio of humankind along Medieval castes... for "the glory of God", of course.

Feudalism was a natural reaction to the collapse of the Roman Empire. News flash, Christianity existed (in its established power) in the Roman Empire for its last 200-300 years before the Feudal system.

News flash: the instaurator of Christianity in Rome was the same one that promoted the inheritance of professions and other feudalist measures.

News flash: Rome was feudal/feudalizing long before it fell to the Germans. The peoples of the West had even stabilished a state of semi-permanent rebellion against  that Imperial Feudalism called the Bagauda.

Genocide of native people? What do you mean?

Look in America. Where are the natives?

But look in Europe as well. Basques, Borusians, Occitans... suffered the Crusaders and Inquisitors.

And "we" were fine i guess. But we were pegans...

Not actually: we were illustrated philosophers.

And even if we were Pagans, what's wrong about it? Is it Zeus worst than Yaveh? I don't see why.

Zeus was definitively more tolerant.

I'd take the "sickness of the desert" over that crap any day. I dont want to dance around a fire with a Shaman who is doped up on monkey sh*t as a form of worship.

You don't have to do anything if you dont want to. Unlike Christianism our stuff is just for the willing - but we want to be able to dance around the fire high on that sh*t if we wish to.

Nor do I want to go before some statue of some Greek god and pray to it. The whole idea is revlting to me.

Unlike Christians and Muslims, Greeks did never kneel before their gods. They revered them but they treated with them as near-equals. They were not the slaves of the gods: they were free people.

Let me tell you this, if it wasnt christianity, it would have been some other religion to do X Y and Z. Though christianity didnt do those bad things, people professing to be chrsitians did them.

I don't see why we need ONE religion. We can have a hundred of them and let people chose their best way to approach the Divinity. That's the good thing about polytheism: that there was wide choice and it was open and integrative.

But Christians (neo-Judaists) had to come with their idea of a single exclussivist idea of God.

How wrong they were.

Luckily we have been able to break the chains.

What i have noticed is that we Jews generally tend to help each other out first, before helping out non-Jews.

I think this is a classic example of ethno-centrism (you dont really have to be related to someone to believe that they're part of your 'group')... a phenomenon to which all humanity is inescapably vulnerable.

Opinions?

I agree Halevi as I suffer from this phenomenon too and in India this can be a bit complex and confusing becoz an Individual has many identities at the same time.

Honestly I want to know the truth about  'Jews running the World economy thing'.I have been a student of commerce and from a deeply spiritual part of India {river Ganga originates in my province}.

How is it possible for such a miniscule population to control the largest economy and through it the world economy,no matter the level of their collective intellect,specially when not all citizens of that country view them favourably?

I have read both Malizai's n your opinion.I'm a bit lazy so won't search for a list of senators n then try to find how many of them are Jews.If brother Malizai has time n energy he may present a list/link.I'll go through it.Sorry.......for being lazy.