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docyabut
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Topic: Atlantis Posted: 03-Mar-2006 at 18:57 |
Maju and Herr the only problem with both your theories is the land is still there, where as Plato said this land sank into the soil and the sea .Tartesso and Mainke are yet to found.
Herr did the egyptain know where the pillers were in 600bc when the story was recorded?
600bc
The Egyptian Pharaoh Necho commissioned Semitic-Phoenician mariners to voyage round Africa. Three years later they returned to report that the continent is surrounded by sea except at the point in Egypt where it joins Asia.
The Egyptians in 600 B.C. recorded the existence of Atlantis. This alleged myth was passed down through Solon to Plato who recorded it in 400 B.C. An epochal flood is believed to have swallowed up Atlantis
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St. Francis of Assisi
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Posted: 03-Mar-2006 at 20:48 |
Docya, The Egyptians did not record the existence of Atlantis in 600 BC. They gave it to Solon 600 BC, saying that this story had been in the records of their city for a very long time. Where are you getting your bizarre information? Atlantis was a story that was said to be the oldest the Egyptians had of the Greeks. Atlantis fought Athens, not El Argar or Mainake. Moreover, Plato merely says that Atlantis was flooded and that in his day there was an impassable shoal of mud near it. In the Tyrrhenian sea, there are submerged volcanic islands that form shoals of mud in the way. Tartessos was destroyed by a Carthaginian army. Both Tartessos and Mainake were colonies of another nation, subservient semi-autonomous countries. Not independent empires like Atlantis.
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Cheers, and Good Mental Health,
Herr Saltzman
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Maju
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Posted: 03-Mar-2006 at 22:18 |
I agree with St. Francis that Plato is not explicit about the island sinking as such.
Nevertheless, Tartessos was probably an indigenous city: it wasn't (as for any record) any colony of any foreign power. It's believed it was destroyed by Carthage. It should be somewhere in the marshes of the Guadalquivir, nowadays mostly a National Park.
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NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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docyabut
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Posted: 04-Mar-2006 at 00:00 |
Its seems to me this was a story of a civilization that was told in parts that excisted and broke up in a very long time frame.
Critius
1.There were no boats and was isolated. 2. There were merhants from all over the world and the harbors were full of hussle and bussle all night and day.
Critius I will now describe the plain, as it was fashioned by nature and by the labours of many generations of kings through long ages.
When the Semitic-Phoenician mariners voyaged round Africa in the 6th century Three years later they returned and reported to the egyptains of this ancient city of tartesso that was destoryed, is why the priest told Solon you knew nothing of this ancient civilization. Even Herodutus only writes of the legends of tartesso in the 5th century
It is odd the the egyptian priest said it sank into the sea, where as in Critius Palto writes the atlandians were only chastened to improve.
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docyabut
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Posted: 04-Mar-2006 at 00:06 |
And why would you say the tartesso was not a empire when Herdoutus writes .
King Arganthonios ruled Tartessia for 80 years, His empire consisted of all of Andaluca and extended to the Cabo de la Nao (a cape east of the Costa Blanca, south of the Gulf of Valencia). His empire was what may possibly have attracted Greek colonists to the Spanish coast. One of those colonies was Mainake, present-day Mlaga. Though the capital of Tartessia sank in the mouth of the swampy Guadalquivir River (and now is famously thought to have been Atlantis),
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Arthur-Robin
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Posted: 04-Mar-2006 at 02:06 |
(It hurts being ignored or getting only negative responses ) S Fof A: Hesperides has also been identified with Spain as well as Italy. (Spain/Hispania - Hesperides - ha-Saponi). Keftiou might be Hebrew Kittim? Maju: That is very interesting about connection of Pharaoh with Baleric megalithic can you find refence for me I would greatly apprechiate it. Pillars of Herakles: There were 12 Ps of H. There were also P of H at Dardanelles, etc but the Gibraltar ones are in best harmony with the Atlantis account overall. docyabut: Tartessos may have been found I saw on a forum somewhere I think site was Donana? Atlantis description is not just similar to Tartessos but also Schera/Phaeacia and Tantalis (and I think to Urem/Ad and Manoa/Eldorado). With so many sites like Troy, Heligoland, Cyprus find, VNSP, etc being said to match royal island/city of Atlantis it obviously means ancient cities were layed out in a common plan/pattern so they could all be right and wrong "Atlantis" claims in a way (colonies). I had not heard of Main(a)ke before what is it? There is plenty of evidence known world of ancient( Egyptian)s was not limited to Mediterranean. Remember Thor Heyerdahl? The high sea boats found in pyramid pits. The pyramidological geopolitcal facts about Grt Pyr. Atlantis account implies knowledge was lost/contracted after catastrophe. The mare tenebrosium could be [sand banks/bars] etc in Atlantic remember St Brendan's "whale"/island? Ptolemy's map also possibly shows muddy seas in someplaces, and there was mare [congeal/coagulate] (Thule?) perhaps connected.
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NZ's mandatory fluoridation is not fair because it only forces it on the disadvantaged/some and not on the advantaged/everyone.
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St. Francis of Assisi
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Posted: 04-Mar-2006 at 02:26 |
Docya:
Tartessos was a colony of Phoenicia. It was destroyed by Carthaginians, not a flood, and as such could not be Atlantis. Moreover, it is far too late to be Atlantis.
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Herr Saltzman
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docyabut
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Posted: 04-Mar-2006 at 07:46 |
Herr I believe tartesso was independant empire that traded with the phoenenians, (Carthage ), however Mainke was a phoceans greek colony. that protected tartesso.
King arganthonios empire was what may possibly have attracted Greek colonists to the Spanish coast. One of those colonies was Mainake.
When the capital fell the city and the empire sank into the Guadalquivir river. Mainake, the Greek colony which protected Tartessia from Carthage, also sank.
Both tartesso and mainke disapeared and are consider lost civilizations.
timaeus
But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea
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docyabut
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Posted: 04-Mar-2006 at 07:55 |
I think this is where people get confuse, the Phoenicans were from Cannon .Where as the Phocaeans were Greeks from Turkey.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phocaeans.
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docyabut
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Posted: 04-Mar-2006 at 08:13 |
Biblical reference to Tarshish( Tarrtesso) is from Isaiah 23:1.
"The burden of Tyre. Howl, ye ships of Tarshish: for it is laid waste, so that there is no house, no entering in: from the land of Chittim it is revealed to them."
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docyabut
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Posted: 04-Mar-2006 at 08:39 |
opps sorry, I guess this isn`t Turkey, but Greece.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phocaeans
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docyabut
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Posted: 04-Mar-2006 at 09:31 |
auther, qoute- It hurts being ignored, sorry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arganthonios
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Maju
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Posted: 04-Mar-2006 at 11:39 |
Originally posted by Arthur-Robin
(It hurts being ignored or getting only negative responses )
S Fof A: Hesperides has also been identified with Spain as well as Italy. (Spain/Hispania - Hesperides - ha-Saponi). Keftiou might be Hebrew Kittim? |
Hesperides is Hispania and nearby areas (SE France, NW Africa). It's a difuse area of the ancient "far west" of semi-mythical dimension.
Maju: That is very interesting about connection of Pharaoh with Baleric megalithic can you find refence for me I would greatly apprechiate it.
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Can't find it right now. Just that an isolated protable statue of certain pharaoh was found in a Balearic context of the late Bronze Age. I'm sure that I've read it in a serious source but I can't find it right now. It's not very relevant, as probably arrived in a Phoenician trade context.
Pillars of Herakles: There were 12 Ps of H. There were also P of H at Dardanelles, etc but the Gibraltar ones are in best harmony with the Atlantis account overall. |
Source? I've never heard of the other 10 pillars.
I had not heard of Main(a)ke before what is it?
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Mainake is claimed to be an early Greek colony in southern Spain, normally associated with modern Marbella. It was destroyed by the Phoenicians and probably never was but a settlement.
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St. Francis of Assisi
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Posted: 04-Mar-2006 at 11:41 |
Docya, let me break it down for you: I will tell an old-world story... About the greatest action which the Athenians ever did, and which ought
to have been the most famous, but, through the lapse of time and the destruction
of the actors, it has not come down to us.
The Athenians did not remember the destruction of Atlantis because of the great many years that had passed since it had been destroyed. Therefore, it was NOT destroyed three years before Solon goes to Egypt. ...you do not
know that there formerly dwelt in your land the fairest and noblest race
of men which ever lived, and that you and your whole city are descended
from a small seed or remnant of them which survived. And this was unknown
to you, because, for many generations, the survivors of that destruction
died, leaving no written word. The Athenians of Solon's time were descended from the Athenians that fought the Atlanteans. Are you suggesting that the Athenians of Solon's time were descended from the people of Mainake? Moreover, the Egyptians say that the destruction was unknown to the Athenians, but they already knew that Tartessos was destroyed. Everyone did. This I infer because Solon said that the priests in their
narrative of that war mentioned most of the names which are recorded prior
to the time of Theseus, such as Cecrops, and Erechtheus, and Erichthonius,
and Erysichthon, and the names of the women in like manner. These are all Bronze Age kings. You think that the war referred to by the Egyptians is that of Alalia. How did Cecrops, Erechtheus, and Erichthonius figure into the battle of Alalia? "Now the country [of Athens] was inhabited in those days by various classes
of citizens..." Plato says that the country was inhabited, meaning that it no longer is inhabited by these people. However, if it were Tartessos, the country would still be inhabited by these people. The consequence is, that in comparison of what then was, there
are remaining only the bones of the wasted body, as they may be called,
as in the case of small islands, all the richer and softer parts of the
soil having fallen away, and the mere skeleton of the land being left.
I know of no destruction that would make Athens pre-600 BC much better than Athens post-600 BC.
Just this completely disproves your theory.
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Herr Saltzman
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docyabut
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Posted: 04-Mar-2006 at 20:36 |
These are all Bronze Age kings. You think that the war referred to by the Egyptians is that of Alalia. How did Cecrops, Erechtheus, and Erichthonius figure into the battle of Alalia?
This I infer because Solon said that the priests in their narrative of that war mentioned most of the names which are recorded prior to the time of Theseus, such as Cecrops, and Erechtheus, and Erichthonius, and Erysichthon, and the names of the women in like manner.
Simple, the names of Tartesso`s kings were recorded before the kings of Athens. Plato`s twins. All these kings and their desendants for many generations ruled over the diver islands.
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docyabut
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Posted: 04-Mar-2006 at 20:58 |
And Critius said let make these ancesters the priest spoke of the citizens of Athens, not that they were . the priest called them noblemen ( phocaeans)? In the writings athens was added though the whole story and a description of its history.
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docyabut
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Posted: 04-Mar-2006 at 21:18 |
you do not know that there formerly dwelt in your land the fairest and noblest race of men which ever lived, and that you and your whole city are descended from a small seed or remnant of them which survived. And this was unknown to you, because, for many generations, the survivors of that destruction died, leaving no written word.
The dark ages.
The early history of Phocis remains quite obscure.How come there is no mention of the phocis in the 600 bc war of Alalia, only by Herodutus?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phocaeans.
http://www.mysteriousetruscans.com/history3.html
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docyabut
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Posted: 04-Mar-2006 at 21:37 |
And the biggest clue is they stood alone when the rest fell from her.The phoceans were they only greeks fighting this second largest navel battle in history, for the trade in the west.
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docyabut
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Posted: 04-Mar-2006 at 21:54 |
The Phocian League is last heard of under Trajan. Remember that mysterious painting of a city found in the baths of trajan
http://www.cnn.com/TECH/science/9805/27/italy.mystery.map/
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docyabut
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Posted: 04-Mar-2006 at 22:21 |
And you got to really remenber that even Herodutus said the dates were not the actual dates of these events, just guess work, so this all could have happen before Solon vist to Egypt.
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