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Topic ClosedAre Islam and democracy compatible really

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Are Islam and democracy compatible really
    Posted: 25-Feb-2006 at 03:14
I think it was Osoole Shar
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Feb-2006 at 18:32

"Some people will bring up Turkey and here is what I have to say about that.

Turkey has gotten to where it is today (its secularism and semi democracy) by rejecting Islam."

 

We never reject ISlam.We are proud of being Muslims.Please don2t use these kinds of words!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Feb-2006 at 18:34
yes we are muslim and democrat.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Feb-2006 at 18:39

Originally posted by erkut

yes we are muslim and democrat.

 

I certainly agree with you.We succeeded to be a modern civilization as a Muslim.

We saw  democracy in Denmark.They said bad sayings to our cultere and religion and they said this is democracy! I certainly disagree!



Edited by Turkish Soul
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Feb-2006 at 18:56
Oh yeah? Who are you people? Aren't you ordinary citizens? Then what the hell are you talking about?

You may be muslim, but you don't represent the republic. Turkish Republic has a secular political structure.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Feb-2006 at 19:04
Originally posted by Turkish Soul

"Some people will bring up Turkey and here is what I have to say about that.

Turkey has gotten to where it is today (its secularism and semi democracy) by rejecting Islam."

 

We never reject ISlam.We are proud of being Muslims.Please don2t use these kinds of words!

im sure you have heard of ataturk.

he made the wearing of the hijab illegal for sometime, killed many religious people who stood in the way of his reforms, as well as many many other things.

dont deny it, its not a bad thing that ataturk was willing to go to extreme measures for his country.

and its certainly obvious that turkey is majority religous (60% of the women wear the hijab), and that is why the islamic parties always win, and i believe the last "coup" was in 1996, when a mililtary campaign removed a democratically elected religous government that wanted to make turkey a bit less liberal (like limitting alcohol stuff like that).

and you guys are trying to tell me that turkey is democratic because of islam? no turkey is democratic because of its fight against islam. and thats not a bad thing.



Edited by prsn41ife
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Feb-2006 at 19:18
We are not against islam we are against fundamentals.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Feb-2006 at 19:22

Originally posted by erkut

We are not against islam we are against fundamentals.

so all the muslims in turkey are fundemental?

so why cant women who wear scarves drive? or go to university? or go into government buildings?

why cant the president of turkey bring his wife to political gatherings?

are they all fundamentals?

why cant you guys admit that turkey is where it is today because it has rejected and sometimes oppressed its religous majority.

the turkish method actually isnt a very good one though, because i believe everyone should have equal rights, but still, turkey is great today because of ataturk's anti islam policies, which last to this day.

"If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Feb-2006 at 19:31

Originally posted by barish

Oh yeah? Who are you people? Aren't you ordinary citizens? Then what the hell are you talking about?

You may be muslim, but you don't represent the republic. Turkish Republic has a secular political structure.

 

Nobody rejects we are are a republic.But nobody can say that Turkiye rejects ISlam..

You don't know me so you must be restpecful to my opinion.I can both drink alcahol and go to cuma ok?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Feb-2006 at 20:11

and that is why the islamic parties always win,

Turkish Republic has multi-party elections since 1950. Islamists won twice. One in the 1990s, and one in 2004. It can also be debated that the current government is not Islamists. In any case, 'Islamic parties always win' is obviously wrong.

and i believe the last "coup" was in 1996, when a mililtary campaign removed a democratically elected religous government that wanted to make turkey a bit less liberal (like limitting alcohol stuff like that).

In fact there was no military campaign. The military threatened them and the Islamist PM resigned. Later that party was tried in court for unconstitutional activities and was banned. They applied to the European Court of Justice, which agreed with the decision of the Turkish judiciary. I.e. Turkey was right to ban it. So this event doesn't really count as a military coup, like the one in 1980. Turkish press often refers to it as 'the post-modern coup'. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 02:39
Originally posted by azimuth

islam is a system of life to many muslims and it encourage science and learning and knowledge.

dont see how its dangerouse to science !

also the printing  or painting or drawing part is only for living things except plants trees ..etc. and for the sake of learning and knowledge it is i think allowed by many modern scholars. note in the past it was allowed too many scientific works had drawings in them. so painting a living thing for the sake of beautiy and decoration is forbiden in islam.

It is forbidden in some currents of Islam. Muslims have painted living things and even Mohammed himself (without the face) for the sake of decoration.

It's just a fashion.


but anyway there are many muslims in the past which are doing the drawing things for the sake of decoration only. its a sin which is considered one of the (minor) sins. while making pictures of God and the prophet is higher (major) sins since it comes under insulting the religion.

but drawing some living things or not drawing them at all is just a matter how religious a person is. doing so wont change the fact that he/she is still a muslim beliving in the main pillars of Islam ( the 5 pillars) .



So you make your religion on silly precepts as these... where's the spirituality? All is norms without meaning...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 02:53

what silly precepts i made my religion on?

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 04:55
Originally posted by prsn41ife

so why cant women who wear scarves drive?

There is no such thing.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 06:47
Originally posted by azimuth

what silly precepts i made my religion on?



Drawing.

Rather not drawing... there are many more but this was the significant at the moment.


Edited by Maju

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 06:51
Originally posted by barish

Originally posted by prsn41ife

so why cant women who wear scarves drive?

There is no such thing.


Actually it's the women who are forced to wear scarves and not to drive not far away in Saudia.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 06:57

Originally posted by Maju

Originally posted by barish

Originally posted by prsn41ife

so why cant women who wear scarves drive?

There is no such thing.


Actually it's the women who are forced to wear scarves and not to drive not far away in Saudia.

yes but they are talking about Turkey

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 10:16

Islam doesn't deny democracy...What Islam orders is equality and giving the same rights to all the people and it doesn't make any discrimination in races and genders.

Islam is in fact, in its idea, compatible with democracy. But being a majorly Muslim country doesn't mean that the state doesn't have to be secular...Secularism is very important in every aspect.

Turkey,Malaysia are good examples in this, the harmony of Islam and democracy..

But what created and supported the dictatorships in the Islamic world, is the former and today's imperialist powers...Better ask them about this, plus, the Islamic concept of democracy is deformed a lot by Wahabite ideology either, and radical extremism.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 10:19
Originally posted by Beylerbeyi

and that is why the islamic parties always win,

Turkish Republic has multi-party elections since 1950. Islamists won twice. One in the 1990s, and one in 2004. It can also be debated that the current government is not Islamists. In any case, 'Islamic parties always win' is obviously wrong.

and i believe the last "coup" was in 1996, when a mililtary campaign removed a democratically elected religous government that wanted to make turkey a bit less liberal (like limitting alcohol stuff like that).

In fact there was no military campaign. The military threatened them and the Islamist PM resigned. Later that party was tried in court for unconstitutional activities and was banned. They applied to the European Court of Justice, which agreed with the decision of the Turkish judiciary. I.e. Turkey was right to ban it. So this event doesn't really count as a military coup, like the one in 1980. Turkish press often refers to it as 'the post-modern coup'. 

Just agreed with Beylerbeyi upon this..There wasn't even any Islamic party formed in Turkey for a long time...And yes, they had only won twice in the elections...Well, it is democracy, everybody can win, but making such a generalization is wrong.

The last one cannot be referred as a coup, only an ultimatum.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 10:40
Originally posted by erkut

Originally posted by Maju

Originally posted by barish

Originally posted by prsn41ife

so why cant women who wear scarves drive?

There is no such thing.


Actually it's the women who are forced to wear scarves and not to drive not far away in Saudia.

yes but they are talking about Turkey

we are talking about turkey because the subject is if islam is compatible with democracy, an turkey is (atleast to me) a prime example that to become liberal and democratic, you need to do some very drastic things.

 

"If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 10:40

Originally posted by barish

Originally posted by prsn41ife

so why cant women who wear scarves drive?

There is no such thing.

are you sure?

but you do agree about the other things.

"If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War
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