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Topic ClosedAre Islam and democracy compatible really

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Spartakus View Drop Down
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terörist

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Are Islam and democracy compatible really
    Posted: 10-Jun-2006 at 16:06
You were saying hunting down the Kurdish people, now you have changed it one more time,well go on with that, but I won't discuss this in this topic about Islam and democracy's compatibility, open a different thread if you'd like to go over.
 
The word oppresion is a more polite word for the phrase hunted down.
 
 
Bg_Turk,You do not want to understand,that although there are Turks in Thrace,they are not the majority among the other muslims,so they can be considered a separate minority.You refuse to understand that,so it's not my problem.
 
these two sentences are an oximoron - the second is essentially the complete antidoe of the first.
 
Why it is oximoron?Hellas is not the craddle of democracy,meaning that it is not better than other European States,but it is far better than the other Balkan States.There is nothing oximoron in that.I compare Hellas with the Balkans,not with the whole world.If i did that,only then it would be oximoron.

 
Do you accept the right of any Greek citizen to freely call themselves Turkish, Slavic Macedonian or Bulgarian, and to establish cultural organizations that carry the those names in order to promote their linguistic and culutral heritage? Yes or no? If yes, how do you comment on the recent ban on the Turkish Teachers Union in Xanthi?
Do you want to call yourself a Hellen citizen with Turkish conscience and origin?It's fine with me.But if you do that, while sabotaging the Hellenic authorities in order to favour Turkish ambitions in the area,then i will kick your ass.


Edited by Spartakus - 10-Jun-2006 at 16:07
"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
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Akolouthos View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jun-2006 at 16:18
Originally posted by bg_turk


I personally unequivocally condemn any recent or current harrasments of minorities in Turkey and to a lesser extent in Bulgaria.
 
Well said! That was truly one of the most moving and encouraging things I have read on this forum. Turks, Greeks, Americans, and any other group that has ever or will ever possess power would do well to take your statement to heart. As a saint from Crete once said in response to Christians who tried to justify persecution of the Jews, "Injustice is injustice, regardless of who it is directed against."
 
Anyway, bravo, and thank you for brightening my day. Clap
 
-Akolouthos


Edited by Akolouthos - 10-Jun-2006 at 16:23
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jun-2006 at 16:20
Spartakus,

You have miserably failed to prove that you are not a nationalist.

All I am asking you is to repeat after me:

"I Spartakus, hereby accept the right of every individual wherever in the world, whether in Greece or Turkey, Albania or Bulgaria, Germany or Australia (LeonidasWink),  to refer to themselves by whichever ethnicity they identify themselves with and I recognize their right  to preserve and promote their language, culture and religion, and to establish ethnic civil organizations in order to achieve this purpose."

State it and prove to us all once and for all that you are not a nationalist, dont give petty excuses. Show that you are a man of principle and that you are ready to apply the same demands to any country and any person regadless of their ethnicity.

I am waiting ...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jun-2006 at 16:51
... apparently I am waiting in vain. Good night!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jun-2006 at 16:56

You have miserably failed to prove that you are not a nationalist.

I have 2.380 posts and you 1007.I've been here since 2004,you've joined only this year.Only old members can judge whether i am a nationalist or not,not you.
 
 
 
You want to be a Hellen citizen of foreign origin or conscience?You can be.
You want to worship Allah or Satan?Do it.
You want to found a cultural center?Do it.
You want to speak your language freely in public?Do it.
 
But
 
If you found an organization in order to sabotage the Hellenic State and people,
If you found a cultural center with the purpose of sabotaging the Hellenic State and people ,
If you found a religious organization with the purpose of establishing a religious regime in my country,
 
then you are illegal,you are a shame for me and my country,and i will kick your ass.
 
There are no petty excuses.Only history,which you refuse to acknowledge.
 
 
 
 
 
 
"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jun-2006 at 20:40
But my State is far better than every other State in the Balkans.

but it is far better than the other Balkan States

If you found an organization in order to sabotage the Hellenic State and people,
If you found a cultural center with the purpose of sabotaging the Hellenic State and people ,
If you found a religious organization with the purpose of establishing a religious regime in my country,

Wow, nationalist doesn't cover those statement. Thats bordering on believing in the superioriy of one people and country of all others. (Or all of the Balkans at least)

Barbarianophobia - A fear of non-greeks.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jun-2006 at 20:48
I don't see anything wrong with Spartakus' statements.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jun-2006 at 21:09
You can't raise the well being of a country (which is really just an imaginary concept) over the well being of the people that reside inside it. People and their well-being is a real concept, which has very real consequences if mistreat it.
The whole concept of breaking people up into 'my people' and 'your people' based on who your parents were, where you were born, what country your a citizen of, or anything of that sort is despicable.

If you found an organization in order to sabotage the Hellenic State and people,
If you found a cultural center with the purpose of sabotaging the Hellenic State and people ,
If you found a religious organization with the purpose of establishing a religious regime in my country,

That just stinks of xenophobia.
I've got no idea how you sabotage the Hellenic state, but if you were going to "kick their asses" for it, you'd have to bring some pretty hard evidence that the particular organisation was going to threaten the well being of others.

Preventing a minority from having their own organisations is tantamount to a human rights abuse in my mind.

Turks and Greeks really ought to take a page from Pakis and Indians. You have an initial fight over Kashmir, argue over who won the previous wars and who'll win the next one, wish someone had shot Gandhi 30 years eariler and that the war of independence was successful and from then on are good friends.


Edited by Omar al Hashim - 10-Jun-2006 at 21:11
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2006 at 04:54
I did not "break" people .I do not care who your parents are  or where you were born.It's not your origin that counts,but your actions.
 
Hellas is superior than the other Balkanic States ,in terms of politics  and democracy,not in terms of culture or race.And since i never mentioned or meant that,you have no right to accuse me for that.
 
Of course evidence are needed in order to prove sth.Evidence are needed for the most simple things in life.For example,in order to prove that your wife is cheating on you ,or the other way around,you need hard evidence.In order to prove that sb is in love with you or accusing you behind your back,you need hard evidence.In order to persuade that sb saw a UFO or the Pope in personal,you need hard evidence.In order to persuade that sb is dead you need hard evidence.In order to solve a mathematical problem or study science you need evidence.Evidence are a standard condition.I do not mention things which are standard.You are supposed to be smart,figure that out.
 
Now ,if somebody,by proof, threatens the wellfare of a democratical country,and you happen to be a citizen of that specific democratic country,you would let him do so for the shake of human rights?That is called cynical stupidity.Every organization has and must have  the right to be founded in a democratical country,not just a minority's one.But if this organization has a purpose to serve specific interests of another country,against the wellfare of the country where it was founded,then it cannot be allowed to operate.
 
Now,if you cannot understand what i am saying,then you have not the slightest idea of what democracy is.And in the end,attacking to the ethos of your discussion opponent,only shows your weakness in finding arguments.
"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2006 at 06:43
Well said Omar, there's wise words there.
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2006 at 06:44

aziz barada, you are such a wise man.

khoda shoma ra barkat bedahad.

you are my farsi brother, man shoma dost daram.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2006 at 07:10
oh this thread went way off topic.
 
please open new threads  if you wish to continue 
 
closed.
 
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