North and South Azerbaijans - reunification!!!

Originally posted by Qajar "azerbaijan shouldnt even be its own nation, let alone claim land that doesnt belong to them." Of course in your pars chovinistics dream yes))))....But in reality azerbaijan nation has their own independent state and more over, they were  rulling nation in neighboring Iran for about 800 years))))

that is because azeri's are iranians. they are a part of iran and have always considered themselves iranian.

even the qajari's and safavid's kept the name Persia internationally and Iran internally. they considered themselves just another dynasty in the Persian empire, there was never an azerbaijan as an indepent state.

"IRAN IS IRAN, AND WILL ALWAYS REMAIN IRAN." Never read name of Iran in ancient history. I know ancient country named Persia with persian nation whcih has nothing to do with modern iranians, they have different religion, culture, language, art, tradition. The great persian civilization was dead probably 1000 years ago.

for your information, iranians have always called Persia (which is derived from the greek word Persis, which was derived from the Pars province in the achamenian empire where the capital perspolis was located).  Even cyrus the great refered to Persia as Iran.  Iran means "land of the aryans" and iranians have always called Iran, Iran.  Persia is the translation in english, just like germany is called germany in english, but actual germans have always called their land "dutshland".

and when has the Persian civilisation become dead? i believe the ottamon empire used persian as their cultural language.  and never has the persian empire been dead. infact, you azeri's have persian culture, persian religion, and persian history in you.  shia islam is an iranian religion seperate from sunni islam (some sunni's dont even recognise shia islam).  and every iranian dynasty has used the term Persia internationally and Iran within the borders, whether they be turkic, mongol, or persian.

"dont be jealous of our great nation...." Which nation??????.....persian?, iranian?, modern pars?,kurds?, azeries?.........)))) jealous??))....to whom?...to fundamentalist state?....to exstremist ideology?....to most idiot head of state which any country has in all times????.....to one of the poorest economy in Asia?.....to millions uneducated people????.....to country with no common sence on it's development and future????...to millions of emigrants who struglle to find their identity????....country which was colony of England and Russia in 20th century and then became a puppit state in american hands????? is this a nation I should be jealous to??????)))))))) remember my friend, turkish nations are always won the battle. Happy dreams my pars brother))))

things you are probably jealous of:

7000 years of iranian history, only 16 years of history for the independent azerbaijan.

irans cultural, scientific, and historical contributions to mankind,  independent azerbaijan has done nothing.

todays iran, with sanctions, with the political situation, with the lack of investment, with all the hardships, in in the top 20 of the worlds largest economies.

todays iran,  with sanctions, with the political situation, with the lack of investment, with all the hardships, and the lack of cooperation, makes its own planes, ships, satellites, missiles, cars, industrial equipment, military equipment, and commercial products.  Iran is has become self sufficient in food, iran has brought plumbing, electricity, and road (and soon even internet connection) to almost every village in the country! 

 

so you cannot claim Iran, Iranian land, nor Iranian history.  one day azerbaijan will be united, under irans flag.

remember my friend, turkish nations are always won the battle.

turkish nations have always won?

turkmenistan was under iranian control for a long time, as well as afghanistan. and the mongols, after their conquest of iran, eventually became iranian themselves!

WIKIPEDIA:

Persian success at the Battle of Erzurum in 1821, where Abbas Mirza's army routed a superior Turkish force

also, a joint persian and british army defeated an turkish army during WWI.

and persia dominated the ottoman empire culturally while turkish influence in Iran was very low.

more iranian victores over turks, which you claim have always defeated iran:

1499-1508 White Sheep Turks (Ak Qoyunlu) defeated, overthrown by Safavid Persians

1602-1612 Ottoman-Persian War, loss of Azerbaijan, Caucasus area to Persians

1730-1736 Ottoman-Persian War; Azerbaijan lost to Persia

side note to the above: the Ottoman Empire conquered Azerbaijan from Persia, and then Persia reconquered it both times.

1776-1770 Ottoman-Persian War; temporary Persian occupation of Basra

Edited by prsn41ife

Posted: Yesterday at 9:20pm | IP Logged Qajar wrote: "azerbaijan shouldnt even be its own nation, let alone claim land that doesnt belong to them." Of course in your pars chovinistics dream yes))))....But in reality azerbaijan nation has their own independent state and more over, they were  rulling nation in neighboring Iran for about 800 years)))) that is because azeri's are iranians. they are a part of iran and have always considered themselves iranian. even the qajari's and safavid's kept the name Persia internationally and Iran internally. they considered themselves just another dynasty in the Persian empire, there was never an azerbaijan as an indepent state. Quote: "IRAN IS IRAN, AND WILL ALWAYS REMAIN IRAN." Never read name of Iran in ancient history. I know ancient country named Persia with persian nation whcih has nothing to do with modern iranians, they have different religion, culture, language, art, tradition. The great persian civilization was dead probably 1000 years ago. for your information, iranians have always called Persia (which is derived from the greek word Persis, which was derived from the Pars province in the achamenian empire where the capital perspolis was located).  Even cyrus the great refered to Persia as Iran.  Iran means "land of the aryans" and iranians have always called Iran, Iran.  Persia is the translation in english, just like germany is called germany in english, but actual germans have always called their land "dutshland". and when has the Persian civilisation become dead? i believe the ottamon empire used persian as their cultural language.  and never has the persian empire been dead. infact, you azeri's have persian culture, persian religion, and persian history in you.  shia islam is an iranian religion seperate from sunni islam (some sunni's dont even recognise shia islam).  and every iranian dynasty has used the term Persia internationally and Iran within the borders, whether they be turkic, mongol, or persian. Quote: "dont be jealous of our great nation...." Which nation??????.....persian?, iranian?, modern pars?,kurds?, azeries?.........)))) jealous??))....to whom?...to fundamentalist state?....to exstremist ideology?....to most idiot head of state which any country has in all times????.....to one of the poorest economy in Asia?.....to millions uneducated people????.....to country with no common sence on it's development and future????...to millions of emigrants who struglle to find their identity????....country which was colony of England and Russia in 20th century and then became a puppit state in american hands????? is this a nation I should be jealous to??????)))))))) remember my friend, turkish nations are always won the battle. Happy dreams my pars brother)))) things you are probably jealous of: 7000 years of iranian history, only 16 years of history for the independent azerbaijan. irans cultural, scientific, and historical contributions to mankind,  independent azerbaijan has done nothing. todays iran, with sanctions, with the political situation, with the lack of investment, with all the hardships, in in the top 20 of the worlds largest economies. todays iran,  with sanctions, with the political situation, with the lack of investment, with all the hardships, and the lack of cooperation, makes its own planes, ships, satellites, missiles, cars, industrial equipment, military equipment, and commercial products.  Iran is has become self sufficient in food, iran has brought plumbing, electricity, and road (and soon even internet connection) to almost every village in the country!    so you cannot claim Iran, Iranian land, nor Iranian history.  one day azerbaijan will be united, under irans flag. Quote: remember my friend, turkish nations are always won the battle. turkish nations have always won? turkmenistan was under iranian control for a long time, as well as afghanistan. and the mongols, after their conquest of iran, eventually became iranian themselves! WIKIPEDIA: Quote: Persian success at the Battle of Erzurum in 1821, where Abbas Mirza's army routed a superior Turkish force also, a joint persian and british army defeated an turkish army during WWI. and persia dominated the ottoman empire culturally while turkish influence in Iran was very low. more iranian victores over turks, which you claim have always defeated iran: 1499-1508 White Sheep Turks (Ak Qoyunlu) defeated, overthrown by Safavid Persians 1602-1612 Ottoman-Persian War, loss of Azerbaijan, Caucasus area to Persians 1730-1736 Ottoman-Persian War; Azerbaijan lost to Persia side note to the above: the Ottoman Empire conquered Azerbaijan from Persia, and then Persia reconquered it both times. 1776-1770 Ottoman-Persian War; temporary Persian occupation of Basra

yeah u forgot timur ,seljuk empires

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh yavuz sultan selim ,dont enter

The Ghaznavid Empire was ghost

Qajar dynasty another ghost

and

Shah Ismail was also a Sufi poet. He wrote his poems in Azeri-Turkic language and - to a lesser degree - in Persian. His divan, i.e., the collection of poems he has written with alias Khat�'i, remains to this day. Here is a sample from his poetry, which is still popular today.

Azeri original:

Men pirimi hak bilirem,

Yoluna gurban oluram,

D�n do�dum bug�n �l�rem,

�len gelsin i�te meydan.

English translation:

I regard my pir as the essence,

I'll sacrifice myself in his way,

I was born yesterday, I will die today,

Come, if you're willing to die, this is the arena

 

Edited by merced12

DayI, I believe they called themselves Padeshah (?) which is almost the same though - my point was that the operative word was Persia (Iran).

Basically what Qajar is trying to say is that Iran was part of a Azarbaijani Empire which is a complete historical fallacy.

Yes, Merced, we know shah Ismail was a Turk, but he was our Turk - that is Turk of Iran.

Did you guys also know that the Safavid Shahs gave Armenians special status and protection?

Yes, and Assyrians, Arabs and Turkmens in Kurdistan should vote if they want separation, same with Talyshis and Tats of Azerbaijan. Infact the whole region should suddenly vote to become an array of useless competing ethnocentric cupcakes ready for the eating. And why stop there? 

It isn't going to happen. 

I think if 20 million Azeris wanted separation they would have at least a tiny guerilla movement.

Originally posted by Zagros DayI, I believe they called themselves Padeshah (?) which is almost the same though - my point was that the operative word was Persia (Iran).

They had many titles padishah, hakan (khan), halifeh, shahanshah, kayser-i Rum (means emperor of the romans), sultan, etc etc

 

I'll post the famoust letter (if i find it ofcourse) that whas written by Suleyman the magnificent to the French king He begon with "Me the khan of Turks, the emperor of the romans, the sultan of Bagdad, the king of Pontus, etc etc he had written more then 20 titles and finished with "and who are you, king of franks?"  

Did you guys also know that the Safavid Shahs gave Armenians special status and protection?

 Ottoman gave them protection too, there where many pasha's, sadrazam's, viziers who where Armenian of origin.

Thanks for the info DayI.

Mal, so perhaps, they would have to get out of government rally their community together and get supplied arms from abroad; take down their lifestyle ten pegs.  Like I said, what many people overlook for propaganda reasons is the fact that Azaries are everywhere in Iranian society, from military to intelligence to the very height of government.  Infact, you know, often the governers of the Ostans are Azari, because central government feels it can trust them most.

Same with Arabs and Shia Kurds (in local government), our defense minister is an Arab.

Iran doesn't discriminate on ethnic grounds like I said, it discriminates on religious grounds, i.e. being Shia.  And of course there is the fact that it represses anything it deems unislamic, equally, be it Persian, Kurdish or Azari.

What about Baluchis and Pashtuns of Pakistan, I believe they have been waging an armed struggle for decades now.  They should be reunited with Afghanistan.

Poor Persians, they have not even run Iran for 1400 years and they take all this flak about being chauvinistic, etc.

KarimKhan Zand was a Lor and Pahlavis were Gilaki, Iranic but not Persian , just like me.

Edited by Zagros

Zagros

Hey..I am not saying that they should or they shouldn't. But where i differ from u is that i don't underestimate the destructive force of Nationalism(Not the exact term but one that probably best fits the sentiments i am referring to). Remember Lawrence of Arabia, young turks. Humans become very fickle when aroused with primitive instincts.

The number of pathans in Pakistan that have served it in important posts is too many, to mention. The first C&C in history of Pakistan was pathan. In Pakistan's history the only time that heads of all forces have been form the same ethnic background,have been pathan. The heads of ISI have been pathans. The architects of the nuclear program were pathans notably Abdul qadeer khan & Ishaq khan

Khan Abdul Wali Khan indeed had proposed the idea for a separate homeland. It initially gained strength from other emotional pathans, but then fizzled away.

Baloch, too are an indispensable part of the army and like other communities created Pakistan through their own efforts. The Prime minister jamali was a bloch. Read below.. 

http://www.storyofpakistan.com/person.asp?perid=P085&Pg= 2

chronology of events

http://www.humsafar.info/1947.htm

Also note that after partition, in the immediately ensuing war over Kashmir with India the tribes didn't take advantage and create pakhtoonistan, they marched with whatever at hand and freed all the land that is now Free Kashmir.(Azad KAshmir)

What is a serious concern is Musharrafs attitude and the upset it is causing in waziristan. He is spoiling the sanctity of the lands of the tribes that he should least mess with. In fact Jinnah went to great lengths to earn the confidence of the waziris, who's land were surrounded by garrisons of troops from the imperial age. One of Jinnah's acts was to remove these garrisons immediately.

There has been NO armed struggle for decades! Complete fallacy!. There has been minor trouble in Baluchistan periodically but the politics of that have totally different dynamics.

The calls for unity are usually by the bronze age afghans living in Afghanistan.

_____________________________________________++__________

Hence the communities in Pakistan created Pakistan and forged a common identity based on religion, similarities in culture and so forth.

Communities in Iran did not fight and sacrifice together to create the country of Iran as it exists today.

No, Because Kurds in Iran, has also fought for independance, also the ones in Turkey. Do you see Arabs in Kurdistan fight?

Originally posted by Zagros yes well, as you say don't under estimate the force of nationalism.

I am glad u agree.

Zagros, what are you talking about? I talk to Kurmanji Kurds all days, even Fayli, and we understand eachother. There is no problem.

It is you who make them different.

"And the Kurds aren't even one people."

Thanks, good job man, your starting to sound like a facist Turk. Hope your happy... If a person feels his Kurd, then he is, its not you who will decide that.

I've lived in Sweden for 14 years now, and I know swedish perfect. And i can tell you that there are swedish dialects that nor I or other swedes UNDERSTAND. Still they are SWEDES. Living in the same country, having the same culture and history, and KURDS HAVE THAT TOO.

Edited by Cent