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Best allies in Europe

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  Quote majkes1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Best allies in Europe
    Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 07:14

 

 

On below picture You can see king of Poland Stefan Bathory and Russian delegation asking him for peace. This is during surrounding of Pskow by Polish Army. Stefan Bathory was Hungarian and is considered to be one of the best kings of Poland. Also Hungarians have a graet hero who was Polish and I've heard that some Hungarians even think he was a Hungarian. I mean of course Joseph Bem, called by Hungarians Daddy Bem or something like that. I think that Polish and Hungarians are exceptional example of very long 1000 years friendship in Europe's History. This friendship started in 11th century when Polish and Hungarians were fighting together against Roman Empire of German Nation and it lasted throughtought the history. Even if Poland and Hungarians were in opposite camps like during WWII there wasn't any hostility. I don't know other such examples in Europe History. Maybe Serbs and Greeks? What do You think about it and do You know others such allies, but I don't mean examples like Estonia and England friendship cause this countries are far away and didin't have any cause not to be friendly. I mean neighbours like Poland and Hungary  

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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 08:45
It's not very exact. As emmeber of the Habsburg monarchy, Hungary (Austria-Hungary) played against Poland in the Partitions, where AH got  good slice from the crumbling Polish state. As you say Hungary and Poland were in opposite camps in WWII as well and Poland helped in the Soviet invasion of Hungary in 1956. As minor powers dependant of others, they have played without contempt for the other. So I wouldn't say they are such good or natural allies.

Said that, I agree that in the Medieval period, when Hungary was independent, both countries had a natural good relationship, due to the natural border of the Carpaths. Still, I'm not so sure they did not fight each other when there were dynastic issues meddling, like in the case of the Bohemian crown, etc. (you tell me: I'm not so knowledgeable of Medieval Central European history)

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  Quote majkes1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 09:35

Maju, Your historical knowledge is unfortunately very limitted. Hungary didin't play any role in Poland's partitions because in times of partitions 1772- 1795 there wasn't Hungary. Austrio-Hungary begun in 1866. In times of partitions Hungary were in very bad situation. They were forced to live under Habsburg rule. So Your statement about Hungary taking part in Poland's partitions is ridicoulos.

The same with Poland's taking part in invasion of Hungary in 1956. This one of most stupid opinions I've ever heard. Hungarian uprising started because Hungarians wanted to support Polish workers demonstration in Poznan. Hungarian revoulyion started on the square wit monument of hero of both nations Jozef Bem. Polish army didin't take any part in Hungarian revolution. In Poland there also was a crisis and many people were killed during riots and polish army send to Hungary could lead to blow. polish people showed a lot of help to Hungarians in this difficult period for Hungary and even communist couldn't oppose it.

 

So I think above prove Your wrong. Though You are right about some conflicts in Middle Ages and later but I did say there was such. But it was all small conflicts.

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  Quote majkes1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 09:40

As emmeber of the Habsburg monarchy, Hungary (Austria-Hungary) played against Poland in the Partitions, where AH got  good slice from the crumbling Polish state.

If that is right I can claim that Finnish attacked Germany during 30 years war because they were part of Sweden.  

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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 13:53
But you know that Hungary always had a special status in the Habsburg domains... it wasn't just another silly province, like Croatia or Voralberg... it was one of the constituents: Austria, Hungary and Bohemia.

You can say that the dynastic interest of the Habsburg weren't those of Hungary... but that could apply to any other country living under an absolute or even constitutional monarchy...

If we follow that criterium, then Spain and France have always been excellent neighbours: they have only fought each other when they had dynastic disputes, like Navarre, Netherlands, Germany of thr France Comte... You can say the same about France and England, Spain and Portugal, etc...

But actually the rulers of Hungary, helped in the destruction of Poland twice: under the Habsburg and under the fascist regime.

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  Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 14:10
I think the alliance between England and Portugal is more closed, they had troubles, but was a relation very strong.
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 14:15

i don't know where this Poland-Hunnary myth always comes from. a) they don't share a common border, unless Slovakia is a made-up country. b) Poles dislike their shared king (Louis of Anjou) who is considdered great by the Hungarians but abd by the Poles.

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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 14:16
The Anglo-Portuguese Alliance started in 1294 and continues to today and is probably the oldest lasting alliance in the world today.
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 15:26
Originally posted by Temujin

i don't know where this Poland-Hunnary myth always comes from. a) they don't share a common border, unless Slovakia is a made-up country. b) Poles dislike their shared king (Louis of Anjou) who is considdered great by the Hungarians but abd by the Poles.

Myth was born in the 19th century and its authour was a romantic Hungarian poet.

Altough it must be said that when Hitler wanted Hungary to take part in war against Poland, Hungarians refused. Later during Warsaw uprising some hungarian units in the area of Warsaw supplied insurgents with arms.

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  Quote Kalevipoeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 15:58
Although Finland and Estonia are not old countries, their friendship, between the world wars, was very brother-like. The military co-operation started at around the year 1930. when both parties started visiting eachother, and learning military manouvers and so forth. IIRC the Estonian government didn't hide any military secrets from the Finnish generals, they knew as much about our army as did we ourselves. We had massive cannons placed at around the islands in the Finnish gulf to prevent the Soviet navy which could have been fired from both sides of the gulf. The ships we both had in the gulf, were going to be commanded by a commander of one of our countries, so one would have had troops under the command of a foreign country.
Although the co-operation during the pre-war era was amazing to my eyes, Estonian politicians didn't bring home the bacon and gave Soviets the chance to use Estonian soil to bomb Helsinki instead, really embarassing and dissapointing. The Soviets really weren't sufficiently prepared for war, as the Winter war vividly pointed out, so even if we had faced a total loss, the Russians would have lost many times as many men as we would.
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 16:08
well, apparently the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth was just a farce then? poor Lithuanians...
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 17:38
Originally posted by Ikki

I think the alliance between England and Portugal is more closed, they had troubles, but was a relation very strong.


But it was a dependency relation: Portugal worked as a colony of England, even if it had its own colonies...

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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 18:24

Originally posted by Temujin

well, apparently the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth was just a farce then? poor Lithuanians...

No, it wasnt farce. But Lithuanians dont like us today. I guess they think that we wanted to steal their land or somthing like that.

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  Quote Encoberto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 18:36
Originally posted by Maju

Originally posted by Ikki

I think the alliance between England and Portugal is more closed, they had troubles, but was a relation very strong.


But it was a dependency relation: Portugal worked as a colony of England, even if it had its own colonies...


Although it is true that Portugal could be considered a satellite of England, that was only true for XVIII and XIX century, not before.
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  Quote majkes1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 21:29

The Anglo-Portuguese Alliance started in 1294 and continues to today and is probably the oldest lasting alliance in the world today.

Polish Hungarian alliance started in the beginning of XI century so it is much older than English - Portugal, although I must say it came to my mind when I think about European allies.

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  Quote majkes1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 21:32

I think the alliance between England and Portugal is more closed, they had troubles, but was a relation very strong.

I'm pretty sure that Polish -Hungarians alliance was much more close. You must remember that Poland and Hungary were neighbours. Slovakia was unfortunately Hungarians land in older times.

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  Quote majkes1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 21:36

But you know that Hungary always had a special status in the Habsburg domains... it wasn't just another silly province, like Croatia or Voralberg... it was one of the constituents: Austria, Hungary and Bohemia.

You can say that the dynastic interest of the Habsburg weren't those of Hungary... but that could apply to any other country living under an absolute or even constitutional monarchy...

If we follow that criterium, then Spain and France have always been excellent neighbours: they have only fought each other when they had dynastic disputes, like Navarre, Netherlands, Germany of thr France Comte... You can say the same about France and England, Spain and Portugal, etc...

But actually the rulers of Hungary, helped in the destruction of Poland twice: under the Habsburg and under the fascist regime.

 

Maju, I'm sorry I exatereted saying that Your knowledge of history is limited, but You must understand that Hungarians had to fight theirs position in Habsburgs Empire during theirs uprisings and decisive was Uprising 1848.

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  Quote majkes1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 21:38

i don't know where this Poland-Hunnary myth always comes from. a) they don't share a common border, unless Slovakia is a made-up country. b) Poles dislike their shared king (Louis of Anjou) who is considdered great by the Hungarians but abd by the Poles.

As I said this very old alliance from XI century. And Slovakia is new as country. Before XX century Slovakia belonged to Hungary so Poland and Hungary had a common border.

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  Quote majkes1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 21:42

Poles dislike their shared king (Louis of Anjou) who is considdered great by the Hungarians but abd by the Poles.

I must say he was nothing special but his daughter married Prince Wladislaw Jagiello and is considered as saint. Stefan Bathory was a very good king Poland and he was a Hungarian. Hungarians are called for help now.

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  Quote majkes1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 21:47
well, apparently the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth was just a farce then? poor Lithuanians...

Poland and Lithuania are the only true confedareted nations in Europe but Lithuanians seem to have some problems with their history which I personally don't understand. Their dynasty seat their ass on thje thrones of half of Europe and they become one of the most powerfull nations in Europe but they still think they were being polonized. I don't understand anything of that.
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