Turks in the Mongol Horde

Originally posted by blitz I think there were no famous turkic generals or something like that who helped mongols so well. In my opinion mongols recruited many men from conquered countries, that is why  there were among mongol troops some turks. Armenians, georgians were among mongols of Hulegu Khan etc.

As always, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Do you ever read *anything* published about the Mongols and especially about Jinghis Khan? When he first united his core group of tribes in Mongolia *at least* half of them were turkic already. But ,of course, to know this one has to be literate and be able to read and understand relevant publications instead of pulling things out of your ass like you do. "Your opinion" is unfortunately not scientific enough and ,considering your level of intellect you have displayed here, totally useless (especially since your opinion is not grounded in any facts).

I think, so this way after long years new etnicities like kazakh and uzbek came into being(16th century). In my opinion kazakhs and uzbeks played no role in the world history but kirgizs little bit.

--Again, your "opinion" is worthless. Go read up on some Mongol and Turkic history and maybe you will find out some good, usable information finally instead of speculating.    

I agree with blitz.

Mustafa, calm down!

well,I am asking you this blitz...There were a hell load of turkic tribes around mongolia about 11-12 th centuries...how come they were not mongolian (regionally) and didnt help Genghis Khan??

and saying things like "Kazakhs and Uzbeks are blah blah but Kyrgyz are blah" is too silly for me,knowing they are all Turkic...

And dont forget that Osman Batur(a Kazakh) was a legendary revolutionist/rebel against the Soviet Russia and China 

 

Well, the name 'Ozbek' or 'Qazaq' came to existance in almost 500 years ago; right. But Kiptchaks were one of the oldest and biggest tribes among Turks & Mongols. Today Kiptchaks live under the names of Uzbek or Qazaq. Or look at Jalayer tribe; Mongolians who were in Chengiz Khan's horde. That's it.

Nice piece of writing... thanks buddy. Now the question is: Jalairs were Turkic speaking? Well, all documents after Kutluk Kakan propose that Jalairs spoke Mongolian; rather than Turkic. And we know that Chengiz Khan's mother spoke a Turkic dialect... not specified anywhere... just some guesses. But Chengiz Khan only knew how to speak Mongolian; not even Turkic.

Now, it might be my fault to misunderstand the situation. If that smiley means you're joking, so, I'm wrong . Would you please answer these questions?

CK was Kiyat, who was elected by Kiyats, Merkits, Naimans and others on Kurulai as CK which is rather a title. His real name is Temirshin which is "blacksmith". All this tribes are turkic, populated the territory of current mongolia and left for Central Asia after CK became a CK. Upon their leave the free lands of current Mongolia were entered by current, so-called "mongolian" tribes.
All turkic tribes consider Altai mountains their motherland and where their all started and moved to steppes of Central Asia.
IF CK was a mongol how come his name was Temirshin? There's no such word in any mongol tribe, isn't it? If he was named Temirshin then he was a turkic by birth and not by a later assimilation or such with turkic tribes. Also, only turkic tribes could call its leader a KHAN and not any mongol, right? If there were mongols as leaders of all tribes of mongolia then why would they call him Chingis KHAN and not a title usually given by mongols to its leaders?  Temirshin, known by its title CK was from a turkic tribe who moved turkic tribes to Central Asia.

First of all, it's not "Temujin" but "Temirshin", as there's no "Temujin" in Tatar language.
CK's father, Esukei was from turkic Kiyats,  his mother Oyan was from turkic  konyrat, the tribes who still live in the current Central Asia.
What is kontaishy title? Is this the title used by mongol tribes who organized Jungaria? They never gave title "Khan" to their leaders, only turkic tribes did.
There is a couple of turkic tribes who still lives in Mongolia and who are still turkic; they were not lost in assimilation with mongols through the centuries. They are not mongols and are not buddhist like other mongol tribes. 
CK divided his land among four sons, Zhoshy, Kublai, Shagatai and Tole.
Zhozhy was khan of current Central Asia and westwards. He died and his son Batyi khan continued on and ruled Central Asia, Russia (or Rus') and parts of Europe. All of this names, their wifes names, their sons and so on are turkic names and some even now are used widely.
CK was a turkic and led turkic tribes to Central Asia, and mongols are cousins of turkic but were never part of his military campaigns of those times. Current mongol tribes living in Mongolia are all buddhist and I don't think any of these tribes took any part in CK wars. They just happen to populate the lands which turkics left on their journey to Central Asia.

Don't mean to offend anyone especially cousins from Mongolia. Just wanted to voice the real background on the turkic tribes.

Tom,

don't mean to be rude, but I don't "have to" do anything about over emphasizing the  turkic tribes (note there's a difference between "Turkish" you use and "TURKIC" I refer to). If you are really unaware of the difference between the two, I doubt your understanding on anything turkic, turkish and mongol.

Anyway, "Temujin" was first used by chinese who don't have letter "R" in their language and therefore in their interpretation the REAL TEMIRSHIN became Temujin, picked by all others and the mongols and used since.

All the sources you refer to are real and present but were recorded years after CK moved the turkic tribes from the current Mongolia to Central Asia. Some were recorded from the mongolian tribes who were populating the land left by the turkics. I doubt those mongol tribes were able to provide any good and reliable information about something theyre were not part of at all, i.e KURULTAI of the turkic tribes and announcement of Temirshin a Chyngys Khan. Moreover, none of these sources were traveling to Central Asia and collecting information at the right source, and therefore their collections are questionable as they are based on legends, myths and stories.

Current population of Mongolian is what, about 2.8 mln? Current population of Central Asian republics is more than 40 mln. Throughout centuries the turkic tribes were protecting their land and now look at Kazakhstan - 9th largest in the world by territory, were fighting with the Jungars (mongols), and later on were struggling with the russian empire and still were able to protect their land territory except for minor lands taken by russia. Here is for you some introduction into "everything steppe related" and the Turks (remember not "Turkish") and their role in the steppe.

I'm no nationalist and respect everyone and every nation - I wanted to provide a view on the real tribes from which CK and his people come from.

best

The answer is simple.  Because Genghis Khan and his so-called "Mongols" (Kereits, Naimans, Onguts, Jalairs, Qongyrats, Merkits, Tatars, Kypchaks, etc.) spoke Turkic language.

Edited by Akskl

Do you have proofs to support your statement?