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Topic ClosedDecreasing level of history discussion

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Decreasing level of history discussion
    Posted: 17-Feb-2006 at 18:01
I felt this problem growing after the re-categorization of the whole forum. Creating too many subforums, misleading description and creating groups that don't have so many things in common are the problems, in my opinion.
"I won't laugh if a philosophy halves the moon"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2006 at 18:47
That makes sense, in some ways. Unless you're a Eurocentric Christian, the forum seems to be divided in a way that doesn't make much sense.

I'd arrange it something like this:

AE Meeting Hall
Questions and Answers
Total Quiz
Site Development Project

General History
- World History
- Today in History
- Military History
- Archaeology, Anthropology, & Linguistics
- Historical Architecture
- Historical Pictures and Maps Gallery

Europe and Asia
- Ancient Era
- Medieval Era
- Early Modern & the Imperial Age
- Modern History

North and Sub-Saharan Africa
- Ancient Era
- Colonial Era
- Modern History

North and South America
- Ancient Era
- Colonial Era
- Modern History

etc, etc, etc.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2006 at 18:53
oh I love to see an architecture section
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2006 at 18:57
Originally posted by ramin

oh I love to see an architecture section


Cool, there's two of us. So what do we do now?

Hunger strike? Peaceful protest?

Declare a jihad?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2006 at 19:11
can you draw Cyrus' caricature?
"I won't laugh if a philosophy halves the moon"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Feb-2006 at 13:18
Africa:

Northern and sud-Saharan Africa are separated entities: the north belongs better with SW Asia except mabye for prehistory/protohistory. Once Phoenicians come into scene, it fits better with SW Asia

In Africa there's no sense to divide it in many periods. Basically there are two pre and post Berlin Congress. You can maybe draw another line before Islamic influence or before Iron Age... but it's very subtle and there's not enough material for all.

But I would agree to:
a/ fuse Ancient Near East with Ancient Med and Europe
b/ move SE Asia to East Asia
c/ separate South Asia, sud-Saharan Africa and pre-Columbian America in separate forums (though they may not have enough material, which is one of the criteria).

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Feb-2006 at 17:18

 I like the Tavern, but I feel its making a nonsense of the whole purpose of AE when history is becoming secondary to silly/light-hearted posts or the huge political topics in the Current affairs section that more often than not get nowhere. You can easily have 20 or 30 pages on 1 topic in the current affairs section of people repeating the same thing over and over again, nobody ever seems to be convinced by other peoples arguments and it goes around in circles until it gets shut or people eventually get bored.

 Ancient and Medieval are deserted some days, sometimes only 2 or 3 threads recieve posts each day, when on the Current affairs section there can easily be 2 or 3 pages of new material on 1 topic alone along with a further 6 or 7 topics recieving lesser numbers of posts. Infact the Ancient Med forum hasnt recieved 1 post all day .

 It just seems rather strange the way people join the site then proceed to spend most of their time discussing non-history topics, why do people do that?



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Feb-2006 at 21:32
Originally posted by Heraclius

 I like the Tavern, but I feel its making a nonsense of the whole purpose of AE when history is becoming secondary to silly/light-hearted posts or the huge political topics in the Current affairs section that more often than not get nowhere. You can easily have 20 or 30 pages on 1 topic in the current affairs section of people repeating the same thing over and over again, nobody ever seems to be convinced by other peoples arguments and it goes around in circles until it gets shut or people eventually get bored.

 Ancient and Medieval are deserted some days, sometimes only 2 or 3 threads recieve posts each day, when on the Current affairs section there can easily be 2 or 3 pages of new material on 1 topic alone along with a further 6 or 7 topics recieving lesser numbers of posts. Infact the Ancient Med forum hasnt recieved 1 post all day .

 It just seems rather strange the way people join the site then proceed to spend most of their time discussing non-history topics, why do people do that?

Many people "do that" because they don't really know much about history.

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Feb-2006 at 00:06

Originally posted by Komnenos

The "Tavern" on the other hand has IMO always been a strong-point of the forum, where something like a community feeling could develop, and where we could demonstrate that there is life beyond the finer points of Byzantine dynastic intrigues in the 12th century or so.

What, there is?  Oh, ok, yes there is life outside of that, it is Byzantium's losing the fight for survival in the 15th century!   

Originally posted by Imperator Invictus

If we ever get a software upgrade, there'll be a reorganization of the forum section. What I recommend is to merge the "Current Affairs" with the Tavern to de-emphasize the presence of political discussions.

This is a good idea.  The two seem to be one in the same right now, anyways.

Originally posted by Heraclius

Ancient and Medieval are deserted some days, sometimes only 2 or 3 threads recieve posts each day, when on the Current affairs section there can easily be 2 or 3 pages of new material on 1 topic alone along with a further 6 or 7 topics recieving lesser numbers of posts. Infact the Ancient Med forum hasnt recieved 1 post all day

Yes, I lament this fact also!

Originally posted by Heraclius

It just seems rather strange the way people join the site then proceed to spend most of their time discussing non-history topics, why do people do that?

Originally posted by pikeshot1600

Many people "do that" because they don't really know much about history.

I have no problem with people who do not know much about history asking questions in the topics I start.  Being myself an educator in training, it makes my day when a student shows interest and asks a question about the subject.  In the past, inquisitive non-Byzantinist forumers have asked questions and have sparked interesting discussions among the resident Byzantinists.  As a result, everyone is enlightened in the end!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Feb-2006 at 02:19

 I dont mind people coming to AE with little or no knowledge about history, I didnt know much (and still dont ) when I first came here, some people just seem to come here though and sit in the Tavern and thats it and dont even ask questions. It just seems strange when someone joins a history forum yet isnt very interested in history.

 Be more than happy for new members to post questions on some of the forums, I know i'd be happy to answer them. Perhaps when new members first join they can be encouraged to post any questions they have and not to be scared to post on a forum full of regulars.

 I can't remember when I joined, but is there anything that encourages new members to post or query anything aside from on sticky topics?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2006 at 13:22

Just a little remark... No offend to anybody, please... 

I am greately fond of topics on the subject or topics starting with "Why..." or any other topic stating problem, point of issue disposing to reflection but ....  I don't know how to answer the questions like "The most .... ... of all times", "Who is greater:... or ..."  I should confess I rarely respond  them because I just don't consider these questiones to be correctly stated.  How can you compare people from different places and epoches when you don't have common criterions to estimate them? Every person is the son/daughter of his/her time and place; every event happens in its own time and place, every book is written in its own time and place and so on.

 Then when you ask about someone's "greateness", I think, you should define what you exactly mean by this term: bravery, cleverness, personal success...- the least of possible meanings is endless.

And the last point: I apologize greately for saying this - that's only my personal opinion anyhow - but I see very poor historical value in such topics - they remind me pop-stars' popularity ratings. Supposing we've decided (Though I doubt greately it's possible to reach any conclusion in such topics) that someone is the most ..... of al the times - AND WHAT THEN ??? Will it help me in solving any other historical problem? I mean, may I answer any other question: "Yes/No, because HE/SHE is the greatest general/leader etc of all the times"?

  That's it. Sorry if I've hurt someone! Don't take it too serious!     

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2006 at 13:29
The 'Who is greater...' and 'The most of all times...' threads do seem childish to anyone wishing to recieve more mature levels of discusion. Yet they do provide a decent entry into AE for newcomers. By this I mean that many new members tend to flock to those polls and eventually move over to the more interesting stuff. So, in a sense, those polls serve a positive purpose, though trivial.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2006 at 13:42

I know that, Seko! - I have no pretensions. 

 It was the name of the topic "Decreasing level of history discussion" that provoked me to write this. And that's just my personal opinion - nothing else. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2006 at 07:39
The main problem of this forum is that most of its members are just amateurs with little knowledge of history. They are more concerned in using history at the service of political agendas to "prove" that the group they belong is the best. Thus the inflation of "Who's the Best" topics.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2006 at 10:18

Originally posted by Voyager

The main problem of this forum is that most of its members are just amateurs with little knowledge of history. They are more concerned in using history at the service of political agendas to "prove" that the group they belong is the best. Thus the inflation of "Who's the Best" topics.

It seems to be the case on other fora as well.  History as justification, or blame, or ammunition to slam someone else, in the absence of discipline or analysis.

Discouraging.

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2006 at 12:44
That's true. I have tried to ameliorate this problem by moving threads into "Historical Amusements" or "Current Affairs." Still, it's a hard problem to deal with because not everyone here is an academic.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2006 at 19:58

... huh?  This looks like "General Discussion" and "Feedback" in "Physicsforums"  --- but, it's "down" right now with a server change --- "Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore."

Dunno how much trouble it'd be to start passing a "blackball" list among forum (not subfora, but from A&E to Philosophy and Physicsforums, and elsewhere) admins far as handling the "hard case" trolls who haunt current affairs discussions either just to be generally disruptive, or pushing political agendas, but somebody really needs to look into it.  An exchange of "nutcase" server, IP, information controlling the disruptive fringe might have a more worthwhile return on time invested than for every group on the net to be going it alone as far as developing "policies" for handling "political discussion." 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2006 at 21:30
Ah, more sensible forum divisions, this has been tried but everytime it either dies of lack of intrest or a sort of keep as is comprimise.
What tends to happens is that the name changes, and thats as good as it gets.
Arrrgh!!"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2006 at 08:05
I agree with Cywr.  The names don't mean that much.  The agenda makers always find a place to argue "mine is bigger than yours."
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