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Scythians (Tigraxauda, Paradraiya, Haumav

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Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Scythians (Tigraxauda, Paradraiya, Haumav
    Posted: 23-Oct-2004 at 14:55

Saka Tigraxauda:

Tigra means Sharp/Pointed and Xauda means Helmet/Cap, so Saka tigraxauda = Pointed-Cap Scythians.



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  Quote ihsan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Oct-2004 at 09:14

What about the rest?

Saka Paradraya = "Saka Across the Sea" (Scythians of the Pontic-Caspian Steppes)

Saka Haomavarga = "Haoma* Drinking Saka" (lived in Transoxiana IIRC)

* Haoma was an Indo-European drink made from honey

But who are the Saka Parasugdam? Never heard them

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  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Oct-2004 at 21:45

The Saka Parasugdam were literally, the "Saka beyond Sogdiana".  They are perhaps the same as the Saka Haumavarga, since we know that the Greek equivalent of the Haumavarga was "Amyrgian Scythians" and that we know of a certain "Amyrgian plain" located east of Sogdiana according to one ancient classical source.

see:

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/ethnic_of_sakas. php

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  Quote YusakuJon3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2004 at 19:42
I've read where archaeologists have unearthed Scythian graves in the steppes not far from the Caspian Sea.  It was revealed that they were actually quite advanced in their metal-working skills and had produced gold ornaments of stunning detail.  Kind of surprising coming from a people known primarly to their neighbors for being nomadic horsemen who once harrassed an invading Persian army.

It seems that the Scythians were known to the Romans in early times, but that they disappeared soon after.  I have questions as to whatever became of them:

  1. Were they swept aside by or assimilated into the waves of migrations which spawned the 'barbarian invasions' later experienced by the Romans?
  2. Did they evolve into a new nation later known to history under a different name (Tartars, Cossacks)?
  3. Or did they simply die off under the pressure of so many disturbances (as the Celts did) and be absorbed into the surrounding nations?
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  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2004 at 03:31
It seems that the Scythians were known to the Romans in early times, but that they disappeared soon after.  I have questions as to whatever became of them:

  1. Were they swept aside by or assimilated into the waves of migrations which spawned the 'barbarian invasions' later experienced by the Romans?
  2. Did they evolve into a new nation later known to history under a different name (Tartars, Cossacks)?
  3. Or did they simply die off under the pressure of so many disturbances (as the Celts did) and be absorbed into the surrounding nations?

Answers:

1.  Both.  Scythia was subject to migration of various Sarmatian tribes, which overwhelmed the bulk of the Scythians and absorbed them.  The remnant of the Scythians migrated either into the Crimea, where they reestablished a kingdom, the Dobrudja region, or to ports along the northwestern shore of the Black Sea, where they established small city-kingdoms. 

2.  No.  However, for a time, the region of the Dobrudja became known as Scythia Minor.

3.  All surviving Scythian political entities were conquered or absorbed by other peoples.

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  Quote Rava Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2004 at 07:22

"Amyrgian plain" located east of Sogdiana

Perhaps Ferghana Valley accordingly to some authors.

Scythia was subject to migration of various Sarmatian tribes

The Royal Scythians joined Sarmatian Urgi tribe and appeared in the history as Sarmatians in Pannonia Plain

All surviving Scythian political entities were conquered or absorbed by other peoples.

It's likely that some of them were absorbed by Alans' confederacy and were mentioned as Alanoi Skythai (Ptolemy), Dionysus Periergetes called them Alkaeentes and Strabo Aorsi. Chinesse sources called them An-ts'ai A-lan-na ( Hou Han shu ) and Su-te and Wen-na-sha (Pei-Shih ).

 

 

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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2004 at 15:45
Originally posted by Rava

The Royal Scythians joined Sarmatian Urgi tribe and appeared in the history as Sarmatians in Pannonia Plain

Royal Scythians AFAIk lived in todays moldova country/moldova part of Romania and when they've been aborbed by the Sarmatians, the Sarmatians there were known as Royal Sarmatians thereafter.

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  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2004 at 12:01
While Scythian culture was supplanted by Sarmatian culture on the Pontic steppe, the latest archaeological information I have, is that Scythian culture survived into the late 4th century AD in the Crimea, where they mixed with the native Taurians.  The Greeks referred to them as either Scythians or Tauro-Scythians.  Apparently it was the Huns which brought about the final demise of the Scythians.
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  Quote vagabond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2004 at 01:30

The Scythian goldwork is stunning - for any age.  That they were able to reach such an artistic level when they did is astounding.   There are several good collections of Scythian goldwork in museums around the world.  The Hermitage has one of the best:  http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/08/hm88_0_0_19_0.html  http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/03/hm3_2_6.html  http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/03/hm3_10_1.html

From the 2002 grave find in Siberia:  http://www.fotuva.org/history/archaeology.html

This touring exhibit was featured in Smithsonian Magazine march 2000: http://www.smithsonianmag.si.edu/smithsonian/issues00/mar00/ gold.html

Ukranian stamp issue with Scythian Gold featured:  http://www.skrobach.com/99fd3.htm

and this fabulous collection from Prof John Haskin's slides (Department of Art History
University of Pittsburgh): 
http://www.pitt.edu/~haskins/group10/group10.html  Look at closeups of the gryffins atacking the horse - and the battle scene on the comb - WoW.  The full collecition can be seen here:  http://www.pitt.edu/~haskins/

And - horrifically - the marketing of (dubiously acquired?) World Heritage pieces by major auction houses:  http://www.ancienttouch.com/scythian%20gold.htm    The workmanship on the horned, bearded deity is wonderful.  Sadly - each of these pieces was once part of a greater whole.  ONce sold separately - they can never be reassembled properly.  Many were possibly damaged in the acquisition, and their archaeological value is negligible as the provenance on each piece is tainted by it having been "exported" with little documentationas to origin, and that  may be false - there's no way of telling.

In the time of your life, live - so that in that wonderous time you shall not add to the misery and sorrow of the world, but shall smile to the infinite delight and mystery of it. (Saroyan)
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