Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Trinity what is your doctrine

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Poll Question: Christians please only what do you really believe?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
16 [66.67%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
6 [25.00%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
2 [8.33%]
You can not vote in this poll

Author
The Gypo View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 16-Aug-2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 96
  Quote The Gypo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Trinity what is your doctrine
    Posted: 11-Oct-2006 at 08:01
lol...sunday school comes in handy sometimes...

in Coptic Orthodoxy, the Holy Trinity is the co-essential concept of God:

The Father : The Pantokrator
The Son : Logos and Saviour
The Holy Spirit: The Paraclete (comforter, spirit dwelling in those of the faith)

We recite the Nicean creed in every mass and prayer...it will describe it better than i will

" Trully we beleive in One God, the Almighty God the Father, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ the only begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages; light out of light, true God out of true God, begotten not made; consubstantial with the Father, through whom all things came into being. He descended from heaven for us and for our salvation, and was incarnated from the Holy Spirit and of the Virgin Mary, and became man.

He was crucified for us at the time of Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried; arose on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures; He ascended to the heavens and sat at the right hand of the Father; He shall also come in His glory to judge the living and the dead, of whose kingdom there will be no end.

Trully we beleive in the Holy Spirit, the Life-Giving Lord, who proceeds from the Father, we worship and glorify Him together with the Father and the Son, who spoke in the prophets.

And in one, holy, universal and Apostolic Church; we acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen."


Edited by The Gypo - 11-Oct-2006 at 08:04
Back to Top
Vivek Sharma View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 22-Aug-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1775
  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Oct-2006 at 07:20
The doctrin of trinity also exists in other religions, from which it was derived in Christianity probably
PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn
Back to Top
Akolouthos View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar

Joined: 24-Feb-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2091
  Quote Akolouthos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Feb-2006 at 03:33

I voted for it. I believe in it. It was decided by the Fathers of Nicea and Constantinople. I do not, however, condemn those who disagree with it. While I do believe that they are wrong--very wrong--, I believe that too much anger already exists.

-Akolouthos

Back to Top
Byzantine Emperor View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Kastrophylax kai Tzaousios

Joined: 24-May-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1800
  Quote Byzantine Emperor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Feb-2006 at 22:48

Originally posted by hugoestr

Stop trying to weasle your way out of this one.

The problem is that you only want a certain category of people to answer you. That is the problem.

Maybe I should just post an annoucement saying that any of those exclusive polls are null under intellectual forums. That everyone is allowed--No, encouraged--to participate in any poll that excludes participation.

Why do you keep jumping his case about this?  Eaglecap posted a companion thread to this one inviting non-believers in the Trinity to post their remarks.  Besides, there is a good discussion and dialogue going on in here that has not degenerated into a mudslinging battle.

Back to Top
Maju View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar

Joined: 14-Jul-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6565
  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Feb-2006 at 22:42
Originally posted by pikeshot1600

I don't know that polytheism was a mass religious phenomenon, but I think it was more strongly adhered to by Classical elites.  The easier to understand concept of monotheism probably assisted in expanding both Judeo-Christian and Islamic faiths after a certain point in both their developments.

I don't think so. The peoples of Europe were clearly politheistic, with maybe the exceptional residues of the ancient matrifocal Neolithic cult (Basque religion), much as you can see in Hinduism, where most people is politheistic (even if the diferent deities are percieved as manifestations of a sole being by some) and there is a dualistic matrfocal monotheism in Sakhti Hinduism, which is despised by the rest of Hindus.

But more than Trinity and the rescue of the Dyonisian concept of resurrection, now under an ascetic banner, what definitively helped the cause of Christinaity was the quasi-divinization of Mary.

It was a demotion (another one) of the role of women in the classical European pantheons but it was a promotion of the role of women in the super-Patriarchal Jewish scheme.

I believe that, no matter what Protestants may think now, without the cult of Mary, Christianism would have never advanced, specially in Western Europe.


Judaism had some sense of a Messiah, who some saw in Christ, and who would have had to have been human in form to be accepted.  I do not know what concept of "soul" Judaism has, but the Trinity seems to proceed from Judeo-Christian concepts of one omniscient God, a Messiah (or a prophet) and the soul or spirit that lives on after physical death.  The Trinity is strong in Christian belief, and there may be certain analogies in Islam.

As a Catholic school kid, I know what I was taught.



Messianism, as have been mentioned in other topics is rather a contamination of Judaism by Zoroastrism. Primitive Judaism had nothing of the like.

Greek religion also has saviors: Prometeus, Chiron and, specially, Dyonisos. Dyonisos (assimilated by classicals to Hindu Shiva) seemed called to replace Zeus naturally, as he had triumphed over death and ascended to divinity on his own might and right.

In a sense, Resurrecting Jesus is an ascetic version of Dyonisos.

NO GOD, NO MASTER!
Back to Top
pikeshot1600 View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 22-Jan-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4221
  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Feb-2006 at 20:25

I don't know that polytheism was a mass religious phenomenon, but I think it was more strongly adhered to by Classical elites.  The easier to understand concept of monotheism probably assisted in expanding both Judeo-Christian and Islamic faiths after a certain point in both their developments.

Judaism had some sense of a Messiah, who some saw in Christ, and who would have had to have been human in form to be accepted.  I do not know what concept of "soul" Judaism has, but the Trinity seems to proceed from Judeo-Christian concepts of one omniscient God, a Messiah (or a prophet) and the soul or spirit that lives on after physical death.  The Trinity is strong in Christian belief, and there may be certain analogies in Islam.

As a Catholic school kid, I know what I was taught.

 

Back to Top
Komnenos View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
Retired AE Administrator

Joined: 20-Dec-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4361
  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Feb-2006 at 20:06
As a non believer, I can't answer the original question, but as the issue of the exact nature of the trinity has also played an important role in the evolvement of the Christian religion and the nations it came to dominate, it's far more interesting anyway to investigate how the concept came to life.
The rise of the trinitarian concept be seen as the struggle of a self-declared monotheistic religion firstly with the problem that the proclamation of the founder of the faith, Jesus, to the son of its only god presented, and secondly as the struggle with the residues of polytheistic religions in its believers that made the very idea of Monotheism a difficult to understand concept.
Isn't the trinity something of an easy opt-out, a clever contrivance that should soften the sudden intellectual blow of Monotheism to a people that were used to a whole Olympus of gods and couldn't cope very well with just one.
After all, it took two centuries of theological speculations and heated debates to come up with an official model that explained that whilst having three distinctve deities they were actually only one. And the fact that there still are deviant views on the nature of trinity might explain why even the Nicaen creed wasn't still satisfying enough to clarify the whole concept.
[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg">
Back to Top
hugoestr View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar

Suspended

Joined: 13-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3987
  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Feb-2006 at 16:06
Originally posted by eaglecap

Let me say this again: people from all over the world and with all different kinds of faiths come here. Excluding people in most of your polls is rude.
I do not think it is rude at all to ask someone what their doctrine is. If they are not in a Christian sect then I am not convinced they would fully understand any type of Christian doctrine, it is not part of their identity. I put up the other thread on non-christian view so they can have an outlet on this topic. I will ask the adminstrator if your stance is fair or too heavy handed.
Now Christians are made up of many sects so I do not think I was being too narrow.


Stop trying to weasle your way out of this one.

The problem is that you only want a certain category of people to answer you. That is the problem.

Maybe I should just post an annoucement saying that any of those exclusive polls are null under intellectual forums. That everyone is allowed--No, encouraged--to participate in any poll that excludes participation.

Back to Top
Le Renard View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 14-Jan-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 443
  Quote Le Renard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Feb-2006 at 09:33

Originally posted by flyingzone

(1) the bible never directly mentions it - all the so-called quotes and references are indirect; one would think if it is such an important aspect of the Christian teaching, the bible should be very clear about it; 

That is because it doesn't the trinity is man made

Back to Top
Maju View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar

Joined: 14-Jul-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6565
  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Feb-2006 at 00:33
What's the point of asking to Christians or Muslims, if, you know, atheist-pantheist Maju will come and break your scheme.

Why a trinity? Why not a duality, a quintuplicity or an icosaedre.

Does the trinity explain where are the 6 or 7 dimensions we are lacking of?

Why the trinity is all guys? It seems a bunch of teen-agers drinking in a pub...

Why don't you venerate a female trinity like Nubians used to do?

I believe in the following trinity:
  • The lingam
  • The yoni
  • The om


NO GOD, NO MASTER!
Back to Top
eaglecap View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 15-Feb-2005
Location: ArizonaUSA
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3959
  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Feb-2006 at 19:58
Let me say this again: people from all over the world and with all different kinds of faiths come here. Excluding people in most of your polls is rude.
I do not think it is rude at all to ask someone what their doctrine is. If they are not in a Christian sect then I am not convinced they would fully understand any type of Christian doctrine, it is not part of their identity. I put up the other thread on non-christian view so they can have an outlet on this topic. I will ask the adminstrator if your stance is fair or too heavy handed.
Now Christians are made up of many sects so I do not think I was being too narrow.
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
Back to Top
hugoestr View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar

Suspended

Joined: 13-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3987
  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 01:29
Originally posted by eaglecap

Originally posted by hugoestr

Originally posted by eaglecap

I would like only the views of Christians about what the Trinity is:
They can be Prostestant, Orthodox, Catholic, Mormon, JW, coptic, moonies, or any Christian related faith But!!!
Please make your posts factual and not just your opinion.
If you grew up as a Christian but no longer believe it then that is fine but please no opinion- what is your church doctrine on the Trinity????
Please Christians and exChristian only!!

your own words and no cut and pastes - I don't have time to read them


Eaglecap,

I have told you several times that we must be inclusive when making polls. Creating exclusive polls is okay once in a while, but exclusively doing so is rude and inconsiderate. I will show you what I mean.

Remember that people from all over the world and with all different faiths visit this forum.


I suppose it is not PC enough!!!If I offended you I am sorry but if...
...you look there is a thread for other views but I wanted posts of people who grew up with this doctrine on this thread whether they believe it or not. If I did not make this exclusive then all I would get is opinions or other religious views who may not fully understand the Christian doctrine.


Let me say this again: people from all over the world and with all different kinds of faiths come here. Excluding people in most of your polls is rude.

Once in a while asking just a specific kind of people for their opinion is okay. Doing it most of the time it isn't.

If you start a thread in AE, you are in fact requesting people from all over the world and different faiths to participate in your thread.

If you want to ask JUST Christians, find a forum that fits your desired description and ask there. For this topic, you can go to the Christian forums at

http://www.beliefnet.com/
Back to Top
Maju View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar

Joined: 14-Jul-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6565
  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2006 at 22:54
Originally posted by malizai_

Originally posted by Maju


I think that instead they miss the important part, they idealize God. And while God is ideal, it is also real and total... therefore they are only appreciating a sclice of God not the True Divinty in its plenitude.

Oh i think they realize that there is plenty of god alright. What they don't do is frame god. Just like u say what he is and where he is, they say we don't know what he is, for we know he exists but since we haven't seen him we cant describe him.

Maju would u say u r GOD? just interested...



Sure.

You are too.

I just don't like to put emphais in that because it seems like megalomaniathic... and that's not the idea. I, you and the trash in the bin: all is equally divine - and fool the one who can't see it.

I don't put the emphasis in being God (because I feel like I have already enough problems ) but in everything ebing equally Divine. In amoralizing and depersonalizing God - not because of any ideological prejudice, because it can't be other way. Else, I would have to blame God. This way  can live in It.

NO GOD, NO MASTER!
Back to Top
Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
King
King

Suspended

Joined: 05-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5697
  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2006 at 20:04
I don't think asking questions is criticism, because your asking something to find an answer. 

Edited by Omar al Hashim
Back to Top
eaglecap View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 15-Feb-2005
Location: ArizonaUSA
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3959
  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2006 at 18:40
If Jesus was God...what was he doing for the first 30+ years?
The point of this is what is your doctrine today or at least the one you grew up with. If you are not in a Christian sect then I suppose you would not have a doctrine but at least tell us what you know about it instead of criticism please!!
I wonder what the JW view is on this topic?
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
Back to Top
Theophos View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian
Avatar

Joined: 12-Feb-2006
Location: Vatican City State
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 154
  Quote Theophos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2006 at 11:22
Saving you
"I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me."
--John 14:6
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2006 at 01:17
If Jesus was God...what was he doing for the first 30+ years?
Back to Top
malizai_ View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan

Alcinous

Joined: 05-Feb-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2252
  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Feb-2006 at 23:29

Originally posted by Maju


I think that instead they miss the important part, they idealize God. And while God is ideal, it is also real and total... therefore they are only appreciating a sclice of God not the True Divinty in its plenitude.

Oh i think they realize that there is plenty of god alright. What they don't do is frame god. Just like u say what he is and where he is, they say we don't know what he is, for we know he exists but since we haven't seen him we cant describe him.

Maju would u say u r GOD? just interested...

Back to Top
Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
King
King

Suspended

Joined: 05-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5697
  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Feb-2006 at 23:23
Ok, now I have to ask, What is a pantheist? and Why do people become pantheists?
Back to Top
Maju View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar

Joined: 14-Jul-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6565
  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Feb-2006 at 23:16
After reading Eaglecap's divagations I understood how Jesus is God and how the Holy Spirit is God... but I didn't understand how Yaveh, aka the Father, is God.

Can you explain that to me?

NO GOD, NO MASTER!
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.105 seconds.