Joined: 04-Sep-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 85
QuoteReplyTopic: the magyars: the forgotten power. Posted: 23-Oct-2004 at 00:50
hail to the only nomadic people able to estabilish a solid sedementary state in europe. youd have thought europe would have learned a thing or 2 after the magyars had ravaged the continent for half a century........but the mongols came and they euros where still fighting feudal........and unfortunatly the magyars picked up their feudal neighbors bad habits and got routed.....
"behold, vajik, khan of the magyars, scourge of the pannonian plain!"
They had states before Danube Bulgaria, but they migrated there.
So they migrated there, formed a state there, but they had already done
it somewhere else. So I don't know what that makes them . Half and half ?
Hell is empty and all the devils are here. -William Shakespeare
The only Magyar history I learned was the later history...and they
seemed to be overshadowed by the Austrians all the time then....can
someone give me a time when they were great?
"The Soviet Russian master convened his clients from Poland, Czechia and Hungary for a formal chat. To test the reaction, he put on the chair reserved for each delegate a nail (pointedly upward of course). The Pole instantly screamed and jumped up. The Czech winced but held his tougue. The Hungarian, never trusting, looked carefully first, brushed off the nail discreetly then sat down and let out a yell."
There are pretty many fun facts in the history of the Hungarians (or the Magyars as they are fond of being called like that):
-The present universal name ofHungary (Hungaros)consists of Hun, that is definitely derived from the memorable name of the Huns, who settled en masse around the river Tisza in the 5th century, and Ungar, confusedly derived from the the nature of the Magyars who formed the largest group of the cross of the FinnoUgrians, the Onugurs and the Ural Ugrians (all three of them belongs to Turkic families). The name Magyar derives from the Ugrian "Mansi or "Magy" (possibly from a name of a chief) with the addition of the Turkic "-eri." forming "Megyeri" "Magyen." "Magyar". Thus, while the world is fair by calling the land through its mixed nature, the Magyars in accordance with their idiosyncratic Magyar-centricity call it Magyarorszag.
-The present Magyars feel enormously proud that their light-horsed ancestors once ravaged the whole "Western civilization" with impunity yet simultaneously they would feel extremely outcasted if anyone fails to recognize "The Bulwark of Western Christendom". Magyars' raids stopped Not with the Gothic triumph of Lechfeld only but with the equal peace treaty between Emperor Otto I and Prince Geza and the Magyar adoption of Western Christianity (sealed by the marrige between the daughter of one and the son of the other-Stephan or Istvan St). Funny enough, the son of the saintly one became saint in his turn--> Saint Imre (do anyone know Imre Nagy?) and his Latin name would be Emeric. If we really believe that it was the first time there was a saint name Emeric, it was possible that Amerigo Vespuci was christened after him and so you can guess the next.
-After the Aspad dynasty died out, the Magyars started imported foreign kings a la Pologne: Anjou, Luxembourger, Jagellon and if we really believe what the Rumanians says about Janos Huyany, the Truest Hungarian King Matias Corvin was more than probable Wlach. The Hungarian kingdom reached its peak in the reigh of Luios I of Anjou and especially during the reign of Matias Huyany the Raven (1458-1490) when Hungary was the uncontested political and cultural lord of Central Europe, comprised in its land Buda, Visegrad, Vienne, Prague and Belgrad (won through great triumph against the Ottomans in 1456). And as the Magyar historians put it "in this few year, the Magyars truly lived in 'Western Standard'".
-Mohac 1526. 26000 Magyars was annihilated by 80000 to 300000 Ottomans. From this moment onwards, history of Hungary became either a parasite (in the case of Austria) or a contest (in the case of Transivania) or an extinction (in the case of Ottoman empire). The Magyar nobles infact became professional mercenaries, fighting in all the armies of Central and Eastern Europe. From Smolensk to White Mountain, from Norlingen to Vienne 1683 (in the present unpolitical-correct side), the Magyars fought and inspired Europe the famous cavalry formation--Hussar.
-Talking about Hussar, I can not help but to make some comparisons between the Magyars and the Poles. Both have mutual liking for each other, which is both strange and reasonable. Strange is not that the Poles are Slavs and the Magyars, well, Magyar (what about notorious mutual disgust between the Russians and the Poles-I hope it will over soon), but that in the Age of nationalistic Romanticism, the Magyars were no less aggressive than the Germans in asserting their role of "protecting the Western Civilization amidst Slavonic barbarism". And Reasonable is that dispite their racial differences (which is now hardly to distinguish), how can anyone pick out a Polish magnate and a Magyar one. Both share the same nobility, "hussar" psychy that is grandiousity, honour, haut culture, free-care and gallantry (in both senses). Sorry for any steortype. In all central and Eastern Europe, we can find no such similarities, with the exception in Ukrain, Lithuania or Slovakia, regrettably, the nobles in those lands asserted themselves either as Poles or Magyars. What is more, both cherish a history of King-for-king relation (quite unfair to the Magyars since while the Poles get Victors (like Istvan Batory), the Magyars get the whole set of the vanquished (Lasdislas IIII at Varna, Luois II at Mohac). This tradition of reciprocating high regard continued in the age of the Dual Monarchy (The arrogant Magyars saw Polish Gentry in Galicia as their equal partners while snubbed at the Szechs) and the Warsaw Rising (Fascist Magyars showed quite a kindness to the Varsovian FREEDOM-FIGHTERS). But that is enough with the Poles
-After Karlowitz, all Hungary fell under the rule of the Hasburg. The fact that Hungary is bigger than the rest of the Empire made the Hungarian question indispensible. But since this post is not a brief history, it is merely a collection of the facts that I find FUN, therefore, I would like to fly all from Maria Theresa and Joseph II (I would like all his reforms except the idea of forcing all his subjects to speak the language which his great*5grandfather Charles V deemed worthy only of horse-courting). Now we stop in 1867, the coronation of the Dual Monarch, Franz Joseph and his lovely queen, Elizabeth, who was the very initiator of the Dual Monarchy and who was infatuated with the Hungarian "Dash, Gallantry and Brilliance". From then on, 10 million Magyars alongside with 12mil Germans ruled the whole empire of 40 million souls. And if you want to ask how fine it was under the yoke of Magyar gentry, just ask a Slovak, a Croat or a Rumanian. Magyariztion was rigidly realized, and in the kingdom of Hungary, even a high-born Wlach could only show off his talent if he allowed himself to be Magyarized. Mind you the great Kossuth and the greater Petofi "national poet" had been Slovak in the first place. Truly, the Hungarian policy so upset Franz Ferdinand that he had made some terrible vows against the Magyars which, paradoxically, were more realized by his assassination than if he would have done them alive. After WWI, Hungary was stripped two-third of her land and one-third of her population, The HEAVIEST punishment any central power had to suffer. And then, Bela Kun and then, Hothy and then, Imre Nagy, and then... and then...
-Now I would talk about something more enchanting. One of the greatest composers of the Classical era (I dislike all of them), Joseph Haydn was court musician of Esterhazy family (a most powerful family in the Central and Eastern Europe, an equal of the Polish Czartoryski and the Russian Volkonski). Mozart was theirs too for a short period. They also patronated for a hefty trunch of time Ferenc Liszt, the greatest of all romanticists, SECOND only to CHOPIN (subjectively).
-I find no reason whatsoever to count for the "brilliance" that Elizabeth Sissy loved about the Magyars except the fact that they got 10 Nobel Prizes on Physics and Chemistry and half of the scientists working on the Mahattan Project were Hungarians.
-Calling Hungary a "Forgotten power" is a double mistake because firstly she has been anything but power since 1490, and secondly, if someone who absolutely have no connection with any kind of Hungarians like me still know quite something about the land, It must be quite famous. Finale.
Well Lohendrin, i agree with you that it is hard to explain why were the relations between Magyars and Poles always so good. There is still saying in both Polish and hungarian which can be translated into english as "Hungarian and Pole are 2 nephew's, both to saber and glass".
Altough i cant agree that Poles got from Hungary only victors while Hungarians got from Poland only loosers. General Josef Bem, polish general who became one of the leaders of hungarian army during spring of the nations 1848 was quite victorious untill his outnumbered army of Transilvania was anihilated by joined Austrian and Russian forces. In fact he became one of the hugarian national heroes. Maybe he didnt win but still made more than was possible in that conditions.
General of Polish, Hungarian and Turkish armies, an artillery officer and theoretician (theory and construction of rockets).
Participated in Polish national uprising 1830-1831. In 1848 he took over command of the defense of Vienna against the imperial troops. In November 1848 he took command of the Hungarian army in Transylvania and Banat. At the end of the Hungarian revolution nominated commander-in-chief of the Hungarian army. Subsequently, Bem left for Turkey. In June 1850 he was given the rank of general of division (ferik-pasha), and began to organize troops of Arab cavalry.
BEM, JOSEF (1795-1850), Polish soldier, was born at Tarnow in Galicia, and was educated at the military school at Warsaw, where he especially distinguished himself in mathematics. Joining a Polish artillery regiment in the French service, he took part in the Russian campaign of 1812, and subsequently so brilliantly distinguished himself in the defence of Danzig (JanuaryNovember 1813) that he won the cross of the Legion of Honor. On returning to Poland he was for a time in the Russian service, but lost his post, and his liberty as well for some time, for his outspokenness. In 1825 he migrated to Lemberg, where he taught the physical sciences. He was about to write a treatise on the steam-engine, when the Polish War of Independence summoned him back to Warsaw in November 1830. It was his skill as an artillery officer which won for the Polish general Skrynecki the battle of Igany (March 8, 1831), and he distin guished himself at the indecisive battle of Ostrolenkfi (May 26). He took part in the desperate defence of Warsaw against Prince Paskievich (September 67,183 I). Then Bem escaped to Paris, where he supported himself by teaching mathematics. In 1833 he went to Portugal to assist the liberal Dorn Pedro against the reactionary Dom Miguel, but abandoned the idea when it was found that a Polish legion could not be formed. A wider field f or his activity presented itself in 1848. First he attempted to hold Vienna against the imperial troops, and, after the capitulation, hastened to Pressburg to offer his services to Kossuth, first defending himself, in a long memorial, from the accusations of treachery to the Polish cause and of aristocratic tendencies which the more fanatical section of the Polish emigrant Radicals repeatedly brought against him. He was entrusted with the defence of Transylvania at the end of 1848, and in 1849, as the general of the Szeklers (q.v), he performed miracles with his little army, notably at the bridge of Piski (February 9), where, after fighting all day, he drove back an immense force of pursuers. After recovering Transylvania he was sent to drive the Austrian general Puchner out of the Banat of Temesvflr. Bern defeated him at Orsova (May 16), but the Russian invasion recalled him to Transylvania. From the 12th to 22nd of July he was fighting continually, but finally, on the 31st of July, his army was annihilated by overwhelming numbers near Segesvflr (Schssburg), Bem only escaping by feigning death. Yet he fought a fresh action at Gross-Scheueren on the 6th of August, and contrived to bring off the fragments of his host to Temesvr, to aid the hardly-pressed Dembinski. Bem was in command and was seriously wounded in the last pitched battle of the war, fought there on the 9th of August. On the collapse of the rebellion he fled to Turkey, adopted Mahommedanism, and under the name of Murad Pasha served as governor of Aleppo, at which place, at the risk of his life, he saved the Christian population from being massacred by the Moslems. Here he died on the 16th of September 1850. The tiny, withered, sickly body of Bem was animated by an heroic temper. Few men have been so courageous, and his influence was magnetic. Even the rough Szeklers, though they did not understand the language of their little father, regarded him with superstitious reverence. A statue to his honor has been erected at Maros-Vsrhely, but he lives still more enduringly in the immortal verses of the patriot poet Sandor Petofi, who fell in the fatal action of the 31st of July at Segesvbr. As a soldier Bem was remarkable for his excellent handling of artillery and the rapidity of his marches.
Edited by Mosquito
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
Polak, Wegier dwa bratanki, jak do szabli, tak do szklanki...thats what mosquito wrote, but in Polish...rhymes in Polish..Im off then...
or in hungarian:
"Magyar es Lengyel jo barat; Karddal s pohar kozt egyarant."
It is always true to say that any good Polish historian is all the same excellent in Hungarian history and vice versa. I am amazed that you can master such a difficult language (in complexity, even Polish pales in comparison with Hungarian).
The name Finn derives from the word Fenni, but is means the Smi
(incorrect name the Lapponians). It is Latin, so it can't mean horse,
which is in Latin "equus". Also, all the Finnish words concerning
horses are known to be loanwords from Germanic languages, who
introduced husbandry and horses to Finns about 1000BC. Before that,
Finns were agricultural people using oxes. Before that, the Finns were
hunters/gatherers OCCASIONALLY settling to a new place.
If this doesn't satisfy you, I can say, that the Finns call themselves "suomalainen".
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum