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eaglecap
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Topic: How about the European problem with illegal immigrants Posted: 10-Feb-2006 at 18:18 |
Is it as serious as in the U.S. or even worse!!
What is the EU and other non EU nations doing about it in Europe?
What will be the outcome of immigration from mostly 3rd world countries both legally and illegally into Europe? Many of them are from Muslim nations.
Europe's population is declining so they will have to find workers elsewhere unless the Europeans start having children again.
"The Death of the West" by Pat Buchanan goes into detail about this problem.
Greece is not the only nation but in talking with Greeks many of them feel they are getting the brunt of the problem.
Besides having more children what are some solutions for this problem. (???)
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Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
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Maju
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Posted: 10-Feb-2006 at 18:39 |
There's one solution, based in the following points:
- Assimilation (who cares about skin color if they think European?)
- Alphabetization of 3rd World (best recipe against overpopulation: if you know how to spell condom... you surely will use it)
Then the radical complementary points:
- Socialization and equal global distribution of wealth
- Tackling of the climatic change (ecologization)
There are no other solutions, unless you want to play Hitler - and even
then, emember that Hitler was the "king" of "guest workers" (he never
seemed to have enough manpower).
Obviously having more kids is not solution: solution is having less kids, not just in the West but everywhere.
That requires that 3rd World nations share the benefits of the global
economy and education with the West. Richer and more educated
peripheric peoples would not be so much pressing.
Of course we can also become "Chinese"... they are open to assimilate
all the World peacefully (?) - and they are not that different from the
West.
______
On a side note: European populatio is not declining: it's more or less
stabilished. The problem is that capitalist companies (and individuals)
want cheap workforce with no rights... EU citizens have rights (more or
less) but ilegal inmigrants have none.
For that reason it is in the interest of EU workers that all inmigrants
are legal and syndicated. It is also in the interest of EU workers that
international free trade is conditioned to labour rights and ecological
regulations. It is not fair to compete with Chinese workforce that has
not even the right to belong to a labor union and where there's not
even the slightest ecological regulation.
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NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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Dawn
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Posted: 10-Feb-2006 at 21:35 |
Eaglecap with all you talk of illegal immigrants I'm begining to think you are one
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Loknar
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Posted: 11-Feb-2006 at 01:08 |
Looks like a good book.
Very good point though. All these imigrants will destroy us.
Do you guys in Europe think that your Muslims will stop having kids and assimilate? Can you image a Europe where Muslims are %100 of the population and even worse %100 of the population is mid-eastern?
The west is squealing and gasping. I hope I dont live to see its demise.
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lennel
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Posted: 11-Feb-2006 at 01:29 |
Do most european countries have viable multiple party systems?
Meaning that a radical 20% could win major elections, despite objections of the other 80%?
I wonder this because it seems plausible that a unified radical group, even in the minority would have a much easier time manipulating a system where 30% can get you a vote of confidence.
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Maju
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Posted: 11-Feb-2006 at 05:20 |
OMG!
Holy GMO!
Chinese inmigration is at least as intense as that from the Moghreb...
I'm positive we can count with the Chinese as natural allies against
fanatism.
Lennel: what the heck are you talking about?
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NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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Cywr
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Posted: 11-Feb-2006 at 05:35 |
For most of the pre-latest-round-of-enlargement EU members, the biggest source of migrants is the 10 new members.
Scale of illigal immigration has been exaderated i feel, granted SPain,
Italy and Greece are getting more of their fair share, but what has
happened in the UK is that the scare mongers have out right misled
people over the scale, on times simply manipulating figures and using
the public's ignorance to their ends.
Its all very well yacking on how Europe needs cheap workers, but
considering how many EU members have high unemployment rates, and that
rates of unemployment are highest amounst unskilled workers both of the
migrant and native born sort, more cheap unskilled labour is really the
last thing those economies need.
Anyways, who cares if the population shrinks, in the long run, as long
as standard of living doesn't decline, but remains at least static,
lower populations won't be a big deal.
Hell as a future house buyer, i welcome it.
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Arrrgh!!"
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OSMANLI
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Posted: 11-Feb-2006 at 07:27 |
Actually a recent finding has showed that imigration has helped the UK economy. It has even helped to decrease the rate of unemployment.
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akritas
Chieftain
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Posted: 11-Feb-2006 at 07:42 |
I agree with OMANLI. The legally and illegally imiggration in my country help the economy specially in the agricalture and the manufacture sectors. Of couse we have and increasing of the crime, but I think with the given solution as maju said the problem will be solve.
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Cywr
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Posted: 11-Feb-2006 at 08:23 |
UK isn't Germany or France though, and whilst immigration surely
benifited them in the past, with unemployment rates running over 10%
(and much higher on a localised basis), a shortage of cheap factory
labour isn't an issue.
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Arrrgh!!"
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Maju
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Posted: 11-Feb-2006 at 09:10 |
Notice that I don't think that EU needs cheap workers... I think it
needs cheaper homes (so salaries could remain low) and protectionism.
What corporations can't just expect is that we buy their products made
in China, where there's no labour unions nor ecologic protection of any
sort, without paying a good deal in import taxes.
EU has a lot of native unemployement, and the solution is not more
cheap workers but an increased quality of jobs and cheaper basic
products such as homes, to contain inflation.
Cheap workers are good for the exploiters but not for the common working class citizen.
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Zagros
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Posted: 11-Feb-2006 at 09:37 |
Ergo, you can't expect goods for cheap and don't expect other countries to have to choke on EU imports while at the same time facing many unreasonable export barriers...
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Guests
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Posted: 11-Feb-2006 at 10:31 |
Illegals didn't use to be much of a problem, but after 2002 the politics moved to the right, hence they also started to make a fuss about illegals. I don't exaggerate much when I say that currently the government rather haves them dead than here.
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Zagros
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Posted: 11-Feb-2006 at 10:37 |
I think the rest of europe should follow the British free market economic policy, you are all stagnating while even in these difficult time the British economy continues to grow. in teh last ten years the standard of living here has improved dramatically. Our economy is much more versatile than any other large nation in europe.
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Maju
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Posted: 11-Feb-2006 at 10:58 |
Originally posted by Zagros
Ergo, you can't expect goods for cheap and don't expect
other countries to have to choke on EU imports while at the same time
facing many unreasonable export barriers... |
It's not unreasonable to limit the imports from countries that do not
allow freedom of association, because that's good for both peoples.
India has free labor unions? Fine, let's import from India... China
doesn't have them? Let's make the skipped costs to be payed at the
entrance. I think it's fair and will help the most democratic and
social/ecological 3rd World countries. I don't see why I have to
subvention China, when I can maybe buy the same products to Brazil or
India.
Also the only truly exensive product nowadays is housing and that can't
be imported nor replaced. I am not worried about the price of food, oil
or clothes. I am worried about the cost of housing: a single person (or
a couple in which only one works) can't afford a normal rent, unless
they have a high salary.
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Zagros
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Posted: 11-Feb-2006 at 11:18 |
Indian manufacturing is not as advanced, technologically nor sociologically as that of China, the Indian sweatshops are far more oppressive tan the factories of China, Chinese manufacturing is under strict regulation whereas in India, the boss is theend alla nd be all. Not that China is perfect.
As far as house prices go, I am in full agreement, the goverment should regulate the amount of residential properties any one individual (or legal person) can possess, at least int eh same town..
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strategos
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Posted: 13-Feb-2006 at 23:36 |
Europe's problems are much worse than american immigration problems, although they are having trouble with the mexicans.
Many immigrants are muslim, and whenever your allowed them to immigrate it is hard to get them to assimulate, and you always have that chance of fundamentalism(which grows daily in Europe)
I do not and never believed that illegals really do fully help the economy, do not be fouled, big business is the one who keeps most of the gains for themselves
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 14-Feb-2006 at 01:35 |
Actually, muslims intergrate quite quickly people just don't realise. I
once had a person say to me that they didn't know any muslims.
Obviously they didn't count me, probably because I don't have a beard
and wear shalwar-kameeze all the time.
Anyway, little jonnie howard sinks the boats, or sends the SAS out and
redirects the illiegal immigrants to Naru - a country with no fresh
water.
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Maju
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Posted: 14-Feb-2006 at 08:48 |
Actually Muslim women don't seem well integrated... Muslim guys maybe,
specially if they are not strict in their taboos (alcohol and pork food
particularly).
Where is Naru and why haven't I heard about it?
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Spartakus
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Posted: 14-Feb-2006 at 15:26 |
I think that firstly it will change Europe.I hope for good.We cannot know,only assume.If European social and democratic structure is strong,then they will be assimilated in the best way.if not,then we will have problems.It really depends on the social and democratic structures of European countries.
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"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
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