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Turkish Professor: Muslims Discovered Ame

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  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Turkish Professor: Muslims Discovered Ame
    Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 13:19
Originally posted by flyingzone

Who denies Viking presence in the New Wolrd??? It is not a myth. It is an established fact. One can actually visit remnants of one of those Viking settlements at L'Anse Aux Meadows in Newfoundland, Canada.
 
I explained it - have a look (same page as your post).
 
flyingzone, imagine where we'd be without the added support of archaeological evidence; I mean, look what we have to go through to make a point based on irrefutable evidence, so just imagine what it would be like without archaeology.  We would be in the hands of nationalistic motivated opinions based on texts only.  What do you think?


Edited by Hellios - 05-Nov-2006 at 13:21
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  Quote flyingzone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 13:23
Oh, I didn't read the entire thread.
 
What a moron that guy is!!!! Next thing he will say the pyramids don't exist.


Edited by flyingzone - 05-Nov-2006 at 13:24
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  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 13:34
flyingzone, to boost your point; it would be easy for us to say the Vikings (using their base at L'Anse Aux Meadows) explored even further down the coast to Quebec or even the USA (which makes some sense because coasting is easy, the settlement had a shipwright, and rune stones have been found all the way to the USA) but we don't claim that, because we base ourselves on the conclusive evidence only, which is the settlement at L'Anse Aux Meadows.  
 
 


Edited by Hellios - 05-Nov-2006 at 13:49
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  Quote flyingzone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 13:50
There are tonnes of academic research papers published on the subject of the activities of the Medieval Nordes in North America. To deny the Viking presence in North America is as uninformed as denying the existence of the world wars.
 
The following is just a few examples of the REVIEW articles on this subject:
 
McGhee, R. (1984). Contact between native North Americans and the Medieval Norse: A reivew of the evidence. American Antiquity, 49(1), 4-26.
 
McGovern, T. H. (1990). The archaeology of the Norse North Atlantic. Annual Reivew of Anthropology, 19, 331-351.
 
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  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 13:55
flyingzone, isn't there a funny comment of the month sticky?  I'd like to nominate this:
 
Originally posted by Worldhistory

The Viking story is of course false and they're just rebadging Greenland for America. There's not an ounce of proof.
 
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  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 16:17
In relation to the last few posts with flyingzone and a few others...
 
My comments in bold red, and some other information after that.
 
Originally posted by Land of Aryan

Turkish Professor: Muslims Discovered America!

 
Presenting some documents, founder of the Institute for History of Arabic-Islamic Science argued that Turkish Muslims discovered America before others.
 
Tehran, 9 February 2006, (CHN) -- In his commemoration ceremony which was held at the Association of Written Heritage office in Tehran this week, Professor Fuat Sezgin, founder and chairman of the Institute for the History of Arabic-Islamic Science, presented some documents regarding the discovery of America by the Turkish Muslims.
 
Presenting a map which he called Piri Reis, the 82 year old Turkish Islamic scholar said, There is a map belonging to the 16th Century AD showing the journey of the first people who discovered America which the Chinese and Portuguese claim to be theirs, while due to some reasoning, this map does not belong to them. It was Piri Reis, a Turkish Muslim admiral who noticed for the first time the existence of a region in the west of Africa which was later called America.
 
It's funny how he says "the Chinese and Portuguese" claim to be the first discoverers without mentioning the Vikings.
 
 
Some foreign and domestic scholars in historical and Islamic sciences attended the meeting which was held to honor Sezgins different and abundant researches in the fields of Islamic sciences and the history of sciences.
 
Praising the Turkish scholars worldwide contributions, Akbar Irani, managing director of Association of Written Heritage said, One of the most important accomplishments of Professor Sezgin is printing over 80 volumes of significant and old Islamic texts which have played key roles in bringing to the surface the glory of Islamic sciences all around the world.
 
Sezgin was born in Turkey in 1924 and graduated from the University of Istanbul in Islamic Sciences & Iranian Studies in 1954.
 
In the year 1956 he set off for Germany where he founded the Institute for the History of Arabic-Islamic Science, affiliated with the University of Frankfurt. Fuat Sezgin has published about 750 books by now.

http://www.chn.ir/en/news/?section=1&id=1543

My Gift to our dear Turkish Forumers
 
My message to Professor Sezgin: Please verify this info through international archaeological sources:
 
"The L'Anse aux Meadows settlement in Canada was fully functional.  The first digs revealed the existence of 8 Norse buildings arranged in 3 complexes.  The buildings were wooden frameworks overlain with sod walls and roofs.  Fireplaces were located in the centre of each house.  Among the important artifacts discovered were a small stone oil lamp, a small spindle whorl, a bone needle, a small brass ring, and bronze, ring-headed cloak pin used by Norse men and women of the eleventh century.  This last piece of evidence was conclusive proof that Norse people inhabited North America 500 years before Columbus."
 
"Later digs turned up pieces of wood that could only have come from Europe, nails or rivets of the type found in Viking ships, and slag from the smelting and refining of bog ore - a process which marked the introduction of the iron age to North America."
 
"Excavations of the area were resumed from 1973 to 1976.  During that time the picture of Norse inhabitation of L'Anse aux Meadows grew more complete.  Each of the three complexes housed specialized craftsmen.  One complex consisting of two houses next to a brook was occupied by the smiths who roasted bog ore in one house and worked the metal in another. They also operated a forge on the other side of the brook. The middle complex, which was also the smallest, housed the carpenters, while the largest complex housed the shipwrights."
 
 
Rgds, Bill


Edited by Hellios - 05-Nov-2006 at 16:39
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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 16:48
Well there are a few historians now claiming this, its something to do with some recent discoveries in Ottoman archives and Piri Reis works. Even if they had made a trip before the Portuguese it doesn't change who actually discovered the America's.
 
Those who did were the non-Muslim ancestors of Turkic/Altaic peoples who crossed the Berring Straits.
 
Pinguin does the Polynesian theory have no credibilty anymore? whynot?
 
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  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 16:58
Originally posted by Bulldog

 
Those who did were the non-Muslim ancestors of Turkic/Altaic peoples who crossed the Berring Straits.
 
How could they possibly be the ancestors if the Turkic/Altaic peoples if they left and started new lives in a new continent, while those who stayed became the Turkic/Altaic people we know of? If anything they are the ancestors of the Amerindian peoples. I know what you mean, but it's a very funny way to phrase it...
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  Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 17:09
Originally posted by Worldhistory



The Portuguese were the first Europeans but it wasn't Columbus either. Another Portuguese, can't remember his name now, discovered America (actually New Foundland, Canada) after reports from Portuguese fisherman in the Azores islands had seen land towards the west after a fishing trip.

Columbus never landed in America but only the Carribean islands.




1. Our dear friend Worldhistory, who have the greatest IQ in the world, are confusing Columbus with a portuguese?? LOL

2. The expeditions of Columbus saw continental Amrica during his third and fourth voyages, and landed without doubt in the fourth.

Read more Worldhistory, you have a serious problem of missinformation.



Originally posted by flyingzone

Who denies Viking presence in the New Wolrd??? It is not a myth. It is an established fact. One can actually visit remnants of one of those Viking settlements at L'Anse Aux Meadows in Newfoundland, Canada.



And of course, we shouldn't forget the beatifouls sagas of "Eric the Read" and "the Greenlanders" Anyone who have read those accounts can't haved doubts about the fact that the vikings explore the coasts of North Amrica.

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  Quote konstantinius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 17:21
Originally posted by Worldhistory

Originally posted by mard

your an idiot dude, it is an established fact the muslims of middle ages were way ahead in technology of the Europeans of the middle ages. Infact most of Northern and Western Europe was not even part of the civilized world until only 500 years ago.


No it isn't. It's just Asiatic propaganda just like a Muslim Turkish discovery of America. The Piris Map is full of Portuguese words and names on it but we all know the Muslims will just rebadge it and give it similar Arabic sounding names and before you know it there will be hundreds of Muslims psuedo-historians propagating the same fantasy.

Give it a couple of centuries and you'll see how the Muslims rebadge everything so that it soon becomes as if it's factual.

    


And of course you always provide undeniable sources to back you claims. You're a charlatan, "worldhistory", and you serve organized interests using this Forum as a propaganda tool to launch your pseudo-historical fallacies. If it was up to me I'd kick you out in a sec.
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  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 17:42
Originally posted by Bulldog

Those who did were the non-Muslim ancestors of Turkic/Altaic peoples who crossed the Berring Straits.
 
Yes, definitely, there were inhabitants in North America before the Vikings, and these inhabitants populated North America.  I'm confused as to whether the topic is about who populated North America or which non-North Americans discovered it afterwards?
 
The question of who actually populated North America is really quit interesting, and goes back a VERY long time as I understand it, some estimates mention figures like 10,000 years?
 
The question of which non-North Americans discovered it afterwards?  The Vikings.
 
Rgds, Bill
 


Edited by Hellios - 05-Nov-2006 at 17:50
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 20:39
Originally posted by Hellios

... 
The question of which non-North Americans discovered it afterwards?  The Vikings.
 
...
 
It depends of what do you mean by "discovered". You can say Marco Polo discover China, for instance.
 
Now, who was really the discoverer of the Americas? Amerigo Vespucci! He was the first that realized there was a New Continent out there. Not even Columbus thought that.
 
Columbus showed the Europeans new, uncharted lands existed to the West, and that openned a colonization race between the European powers. That is usually know as the "Discovery of the Americas".
Colombus knew the Norse had discovered certain islands in the Artic in Thule, but no European have any idea that the 40% of the planet was still unknown!
 
Now, that the Vikings were the first Europeans to be in North America, that's also true, but nobody else knew it. Norse didn't even realize they were in a "New World" or "New continent". They didn't pay attention or where able to weight what they have found! Otherwise, how come they forgot? For them, those lands where nothing more than a place close to Greenland that has wood for theirs houses and ships.
 
But the discovery of the New World, or encounter as some people say, is the work of Spain. The world we know today was made by the Iberians powers than since Henry the Navigator started globalization, for good or evil.
 
Pinguin


Edited by pinguin - 05-Nov-2006 at 20:40
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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 20:49

I don't understand what this has to do with the "discovery" of America.

Colombus, Muslim Turks, Chinease didn't discover America, they just found it thousands of years after it was already discovered.
 
It was discovered by those who first made it there and that wasn't Colombus, Muslim Turks or the Chinease.
 
Its quite patronising that we don't acknowledge the ACTUAL people who really discovered the America's, crossing the Berring Straits was not an easy feat, spreading and creating flourishing civillisations across the America's while being cut-off from most of the populated world was a great feat.
 
We should start showing more respect and credit!
 
 
Pinguin, do the Inca or Maya's still retain their native languages and cultures?
 


Edited by Bulldog - 05-Nov-2006 at 20:51
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  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 21:20
Let's stick to the facts; the inhabitants were the indigenous people, and the first foreigners to settle were the Vikings.  Why complicate things? 
 
 
 
 


Edited by Hellios - 05-Nov-2006 at 21:21
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 21:51
Originally posted by Hellios

Let's stick to the facts; the inhabitants were the indigenous people, and the first foreigners to settle were the Vikings.  Why complicate things? 
  
 
Vikings didn't settle. They were just in a touristic tour LOLLOL
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  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 22:04

LOL  Are you having trouble researching things?  LOL 

 
 
 


Edited by Hellios - 05-Nov-2006 at 22:44
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 22:05
Originally posted by Bulldog

...
Its quite patronising that we don't acknowledge the ACTUAL people who really discovered the America's, crossing the Berring Straits was not an easy feat, spreading and creating flourishing civillisations across the America's while being cut-off from most of the populated world was a great feat.
 
We should start showing more respect and credit!
 
Absolutely! The people of the Old World was the ignorant. In fact, people of the Old World still today don't discover the New World.
 
  
Originally posted by Bulldog

...
Pinguin, do the Inca or Maya's still retain their native languages and cultures?
 
 
The Incas where the rulers of an empire called Tahantinsuyo (To say Inca is like to say Pharaoh, it was the title of the king) Most of the people of the times of the Incas were Quechua speakers which was the official language of that Empire, and Quechua is still spoken today by several million peoples. Even more, the spanish Speakers of Peru, Bolivia, Ecuador, Colombia, Argentina and Chile, have hundreds of Quechua words that are used daily, including myself!
 
The Mayans still exist in Southern Mexico and Guatemala, and they still speak a language so close to classical Mayan that archaeologist could decipher mayan writings thanks to that.
 
Nahuatl, the language of the Aztecs, is still spoken today, and that language has lots of poems of Aztecs times that are preserved. Aymara, the language of Tiahuanaco is alive as well.
 
Many of the most important Native languages of the Americas are still alive and well. And at least two countries are officially bilingual:
 
Paraguay: Spanish-Guarany.
Peru: Spanish-Quechua & Aymara.
 
 
Pinguin
 
 
 


Edited by pinguin - 05-Nov-2006 at 22:06
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  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Nov-2006 at 15:44
Bulldog is right about the importance of putting things into perspective.  I agree with everything Bulldog & Pinguin have said about the people who originally populated North America - these are the people who became the true "natives" or "aboriginals" or "first discoverers" of the continent, and after a few thousand years, the first Europeans to settle on the continent were the Vikings, although after about 100 years they moved back to Greenland (after being driven away by natives).
 
 


Edited by Hellios - 06-Nov-2006 at 15:46
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  Quote the_oz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Nov-2006 at 15:05
Originally posted by Bulldog

Those who did were the non-Muslim ancestors of Turkic/Altaic peoples who crossed the Berring Straits.
 


Yes,it can be true because there are lots of similarity between Natives and Turks.For example we have common words...

Native Trke
Tepek Tepe
Yatkı Ev, yatılan yer
Dodohişa Dudak
Atış-ka Ateş
T-sn Uzun
Yu Su, yu-mak, yıkamak
Lı-ık Vatan, ili
Tete Dede
Tamazkal Hamam, temiz kal
Hogan Kerpi ev, Hopan
Missigi Mısır
Tre Tre, Tre
Hu Selam
Yanunda Yanında
Aş-kz Yemek
Tapa Tuba
İldiş Dişleme

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Nov-2006 at 15:08

Which Native language is that? It does not sound like Quechua, Aymara or Nahuatl, anyways? LOL

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