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Iran daily holds contest for Holocaust cartoons

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  Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Iran daily holds contest for Holocaust cartoons
    Posted: 10-Feb-2006 at 12:15
Originally posted by Seko

Originally posted by DukeC

It shows.

Though Mila had nothing to do with my most interesting post that you seem to appreciate, I will let her enjoy my limelight for the time being.

Oops...

My comment still stands, good post Seko.



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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2006 at 12:18
Thanks! Heck now lets call back Mila and we could all have a party.
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  Quote Jay. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2006 at 12:20
So bored of these comic cartoons or whatever threads.
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  Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2006 at 12:40

Originally posted by Jay.

So bored of these comic cartoons or whatever threads.

Same here.

ARDA:The best Turkish diplomat ever!

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  Quote lennel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2006 at 14:55

Originally posted by Mila




I'll be very upset if this creates a Europe where both can be published freely from now on.

For me, the perfect outcome would be this:

The courts intervene and decide that the cartoons were needless offensive and fall into the category of those public expressions banned by hate speech laws.

 

wouldn't this basically close the door on religious satire altogether?

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  Quote lennel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2006 at 15:00

Originally posted by Jay.

So bored of these comic cartoons or whatever threads.

 

They are a bit tedious at times, but i'm still very much interested.  I think alot of this will set policy and precedent for the EU, and really test it.

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  Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2006 at 15:14
Originally posted by Jay.

So bored of these comic cartoons or whatever threads.

Absolutely. Are there no other problems in this planet?
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2006 at 16:28
Originally posted by Styrbiorn

Originally posted by Zagros

The Muslims were right to protest but not int eh way they did, it was disgraceful.


I have to throw this in (originally posted by Aydin in another thread), the Russian MP, int he following article, makes a good point about the level and organisation of protests/P]

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/february2006/070206atta ckiran.htm


Zhrininovsky is a clown that want to rebuild the USSR by force and let their 'soldiers wash their boots in the Indian Ocean'. I wouldn't give him any creds.

Exactly, then he knows something about manipulation, psyops and imperialism.

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  Quote The Guardian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2006 at 17:33

Originally posted by Maju

Originally posted by TheDiplomat

Both are unacceptable.


NOOO!

Mocking religious figures is perfectly acceptable. You may not like but you can't say it is unnaceptable...

By doing that you only show that your religion is not ready to live side by side with others and needs a ghetto to survive.

Such affirmations only show the weakness of Islam. Obviously people will stay mocking and manipulating religious elements of Islam and any other religion... if you can't accept that, you can only do one thing: to repress the free people that do it, by either killing, jailing or whatever other repressive method. That obviously only shows how evil Islam is.

So if you don't want your religion to be evil, you better start ignoring the people that use their rights to express on how they feel about Islam.

Or you can kill them and become the new Hitler.

That's pecisely what is happening: the people who dare to toy with Islamic iconography/ideology is being exterminated or persecuted systematically. Islam is showing itself as a very intolerant sect of criminal tendencies.

This is not any question of respect or not respect... we could discuss that if there would not be people threatened and killed for these issues. But under threat, we can only discuss how to supress the terrorist agression against free-thinkers made in the name of Islam.

Free thinkers huh?What about the very same newspapers not publishing the caricatures mocking christianity-isn't that very hippocrytical?

I mean how long can I walk around with a sign saying "Jesus is a truck headed for the god's whorehouse" anywhere in Europe?I'm guessing 5

This is not free thinking, this is literally disrespect against one's beliefs.  If I were a muslim living in Denmark-I'd sew the press saying how much the drawing traumatised me and get them bankrupt.The drawing did not mock a religious figure-it showed Muhammed as a terrorist.Would you like to be drawn as a terrorist?Imagine thos people-whos religious leader(surprisingly one that has actually existed as a real actual person which makes it worse) drawn as a terrorist.

I still can't deny the jewish holocaust(not that it didn't happen or anything please don't get me wrong)-where is the freedom of speech?

It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up.
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  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2006 at 18:58

Off topic: Do i see good or has Zagros lost his minds?  He has azerbaycan flag!!!  The country he hated so much

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  Quote Illuminati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2006 at 19:28
Originally posted by The Guardian

Originally posted by Maju

Originally posted by TheDiplomat

Both are unacceptable.


NOOO!

Mocking religious figures is perfectly acceptable. You may not like but you can't say it is unnaceptable...

By doing that you only show that your religion is not ready to live side by side with others and needs a ghetto to survive.

Such affirmations only show the weakness of Islam. Obviously people will stay mocking and manipulating religious elements of Islam and any other religion... if you can't accept that, you can only do one thing: to repress the free people that do it, by either killing, jailing or whatever other repressive method. That obviously only shows how evil Islam is.

So if you don't want your religion to be evil, you better start ignoring the people that use their rights to express on how they feel about Islam.

Or you can kill them and become the new Hitler.

That's pecisely what is happening: the people who dare to toy with Islamic iconography/ideology is being exterminated or persecuted systematically. Islam is showing itself as a very intolerant sect of criminal tendencies.

This is not any question of respect or not respect... we could discuss that if there would not be people threatened and killed for these issues. But under threat, we can only discuss how to supress the terrorist agression against free-thinkers made in the name of Islam.

Free thinkers huh?What about the very same newspapers not publishing the caricatures mocking christianity-isn't that very hippocrytical?

I mean how long can I walk around with a sign saying "Jesus is a truck headed for the god's whorehouse" anywhere in Europe?I'm guessing 5

This is not free thinking, this is literally disrespect against one's beliefs.  If I were a muslim living in Denmark-I'd sew the press saying how much the drawing traumatised me and get them bankrupt.The drawing did not mock a religious figure-it showed Muhammed as a terrorist.Would you like to be drawn as a terrorist?Imagine thos people-whos religious leader(surprisingly one that has actually existed as a real actual person which makes it worse) drawn as a terrorist.

I still can't deny the jewish holocaust(not that it didn't happen or anything please don't get me wrong)-where is the freedom of speech?



I disagree. Criticizing a religion is acceptable under our laws. Religion is the controlling force for much of the world. Freedom of speech/expression exists to question authority. That's the most fundamental belief that America's founding fathers had. Authority has to be questioned, and kept in check so that it does not overstep it's bounds. Religion is no different. It is an authority, and thus it should be questioned. And if people do not like what it is doing, then it should be criticized.

We live in a world of global communications, if someone can't accept that things like this are going to happen, then they need to go ship themselves off to some deserted island. If someone wants to live by thier religious morals and values, then they can, but they have no right to demand that other people adhere to the same morals.

We live in the 21st century, not the 14th.
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  Quote TeldeIndus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2006 at 22:23
Originally posted by Illuminati


I disagree. Criticizing a religion is acceptable under our laws. Religion is the controlling force for much of the world. Freedom of speech/expression exists to question authority. That's the most fundamental belief that America's founding fathers had. Authority has to be questioned, and kept in check so that it does not overstep it's bounds. Religion is no different. It is an authority, and thus it should be questioned. And if people do not like what it is doing, then it should be criticized.

We live in a world of global communications, if someone can't accept that things like this are going to happen, then they need to go ship themselves off to some deserted island. If someone wants to live by thier religious morals and values, then they can, but they have no right to demand that other people adhere to the same morals.

We live in the 21st century, not the 14th.

There's been plenty of publications that have criticized Islam, the Prophets of Islam critically, and favourably. Here are some for you to read about, and noone has mentioned a whiff of these books to protest them.

  • Of more critical studies perhaps the best are D. S. Margoliouth's Mohammed and the Rise of Islam (London, 1905)
  • Tor Andrae, Mohammad, translated by T. Menzel as Mohammed, the Man and His Message (New York, 1936)
  • F. Buhl and H. H. Schaeder, Das Leben M uhammeds (Heidelberg, 1955)
  • Aloys Sprenger's Das Leben and die Lehre des Mohammed, 2nd ed., 3 vols. (Berlin, 1839), and Sir William Muir's Life o f Mohammad, ed. T. H. Weir (Edinburgh, 1923), are full-dress critical biographies of the Prophet
  • An attempt at a more favorable evaluation of Muhammad has been made by W. Montgomery Watt in two volumes, Muhammad at Mecca (Oxford, 1953) and Muhammad at Medina (Oxford, 1956).
  • Tor Andrae, Die Person Muhammeds in Lehre and Glauben seiner Gemeinde (Stockholm, 1918).
  • "For some account of the curious development of the mythical Muhammad, the older book by S. W. Koelle, Mohammed and Mohammedanism (London, 1889)" 

 



Edited by TeldeIndus
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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2006 at 23:39
I suppose Iranian cartoonists have great imaginations to illustrate human beings bleed-choking into something funny. 
Grrr..
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  Quote Voyager Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2006 at 09:48
How can Iran sponsor a Holocaust Cartoon contest when their President claims it never happened?

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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2006 at 09:54
Originally posted by DayI

Off topic: Do i see good or has Zagros lost his minds?  He has azerbaycan flag!!!  The country he hated so much

I have nothing against FSR Azerbiajan, only some of its politicians and its fabrication of history.

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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2006 at 09:55

Originally posted by Voyager

How can Iran sponsor a Holocaust Cartoon contest when their President claims it never happened?

Because they (IRI) are a bunch of ideologically bewildered loonatics.

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  Quote Behi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2006 at 18:33
Letter of President of  Iranian Jewish Society to Ahmadi nejad about Holocaust:
Parsi: http://www.iranjewish.com/News_F/news_29_03-holocust.htm

نامه رئيس انجمن كليميان تهران به رئيس جمهور ايران در ارتباط با هولوكاست&n bsp; كشتار يهوديان بدست نازي هاي هيتلري

 

 

حضور محترم جناب آقاي دكتر محمود احمدي‏نژ 75;د رئيس ‏جمهور منتخب ملت ايران

 

با سلام و عرض ارادت خالصانه،

 

آن چه ما را بر آن داشته با همه مشغله و گرفتاري‏ 07;اي شما در حل مشكلات پيش روي ملت ايران، مصدع اوقات حضرتعالي شويم، مطلبي است كه هفته‏ها است افكار مردم جهان و ملت ايران و از جمله جامعه كليميان را به خود مشغول داشته است.

برنامه‏س 75;زي‏ها و تأكيدات روزانه صدا و سيماي جمهوري اسلامي و بعضي ديگر از رسانه‏ها 10; گروهي بر افسانه بودن كشتار يهوديان به دست رژيم نازي‏هاي هيتلري هولوكاست و به چالش كشيدن يكي از بديهي‏تر 10;ن و غم‏انگيز 78;رين حوادث بشري در قرن بيستم، موجب بُهت و حيرت جهانيان و دلهره و ترس جامعه كوچك يهودي ايران شده است.

چگونه ممكن است فاجعه جنگ جهاني دوم و وقايع و اثرات آن را كه موجب نابودي حدود پنجاه ميليون انسان در نقاط مختلف جهان شده و ميهن ما بيش از ساير نقاط جهان از آثار و عواقب آن لطمه ديده است را از پشت شيشه كدر تعصب‏هاي روزمره سياسي، عمدتاً ناشي از فرهنگ سكولار غربي بررسي نموده و جنايات فاشيست‏ه 75;ي هيتلري را توجيه‏پذ 10;ر جلوه داد.

چگونه ممكن است اصل اعلام شده در اساسنامه حزب و ارتش نازي‏ها را مبني بر پاك‏سازي اروپا از وجود يهوديان را به چالش و ترديد كشيد و تئوري نژادپرست&# 1575;نه فاشيست‏ه 75; را فراموش كرد، مگر نمي‏توان كتاب نبرد من نوشته آدولف هيتلر و يا نطق‏هاي موجود گوبلز و هيملر را يك بار ديگر خواند ...؟

چگونه ممكن است اين همه شواهد زنده و انكارناپ 84;ير در كشتار و نفي بلد يهوديان در اروپا و جنگ دوم جهاني را ناديده گرفت و سخنان چند نفر را با مواضع كاملاً غيرديني ملاك قضاوت قرار داد ...؟ و حتي بر آن مطالبي غيرواقع افزود و نتايج دلخواه...! را به گوش شنوندگان و خوانندگا 06; ساده‏دل رساند.

 

آقاي رئيس جمهور

ترديد نيست كه جنگ دوم جهاني موجب نابودي پنجاه ميليون نفر از مردم جهان شده، اين كه شش ميليون و يا يك ميليون از اين پنجاه ميليون نفر يهودي بوده‏اند چه اهميتي دارد...؟ آيا به نظر شما نفي كشتار يهوديان ما را به نديده گرفتن حق و خون پنجاه ميليون انسان نزديك نمي‏كند و ارزش‏هاي انقلاب اسلامي و رهنمودها&# 1610; امام راحل و نظام فكري ديرپا و ارزشمند ايرانيان 48; فداي احساساتي زودگذر و به شدت سياسي نمي‏شود...؟

 

آقاي رئيس جمهور

هولوكاست نه تنها افسانه نيست بلكه چون زخمي چركين بر پيشاني تمدن غرب همچنان باقي است، نگران باشيد كه سردمدارا 06; نئونازي در اروپا كه امروز خانه‏هاي سياه‏پوس 78;ان را به آتش مي‏‎كشند و محله‏هاي مسلمان‏ن 88;ين را غارت مي‏كنند فردا دامي وحشتناك چون هولوكاست را براي مسلمانان نگسترده باشند.

 

جناب آقاي دكتر احمدي ‏نژاد

هولوكاست افسانه نيست همانطور كه نسل‏كشي صدام در حلبچه افسانه نيست، همانطور كه كشتار مردم فلسطين و لبنان در صبرا و شتيلا به وسيله آدمكشان شارون افسانه نيست و قتل‏عام مسلمانان در بالكان و آن چه امروز در افغانستا&# 1606; و عراق و سودان مي‏گذرد افسانه نيست.

 

جناب آقاي رئيس ‏جمهور

ترديدهاي فراوان وجود دارد كه در جريان هولوكاست&# 1670;ند نفر از يهوديان بي‏گناه جان باخته‏ان 83;...؟ ولي اين ترديدها فقط در تعداد است و نه در اصل واقعه هولوكاست.

ديگر اين كه صحيح است كه صهيونيستR 07;ها از هولوكاست استفاده ابزاري نموده و مظلوم‏نم 75;يي كرده و مي‏كنند و در اين كه در مراحلي افراطي‏ت 85;ين باندهاي صهيونيست 10; در همدستي با فاشيزم‏ه 75;ي هيتلري به هولوكاست دامن زده‏اند اسنادي وجود دارد.

ولي كشتار يهوديان، كولي‏ها، لهستاني‏ 07;ا، اسلاوهاي مسيحي و مسلمان به وسيله ارتش نازي‏ها و حتي به وسيله ارتش سرخ جاي كوچك‏تري 06; ترديدي ندارد.

ما از مظلوميت و خون همه كشته‏شدگ 75;ن جنگ دوم جهاني دفاع مي‏كنيم كه كشتار سازمان يافته يهوديان در اروپا هولوكاست جزيي كوچك از آن است.

 

جناب آقاي رئيس جمهور

ما نگران آنيـم كه ارزش‏هاي انقلاب شكوهمند اسلامـي ملت ايران در برابر احساسات نژادپرست 75;نه و يا ميهن‎‏پر 87;تانه كاذب به سبك رضاخاني ...! در توجيه كشتار يهوديان اروپا به دست فاشيست‏ه 75; كمرنگ شود و دفاع از حقوق مستضعفان و استقلال و آزادي كه شعار دشمن‏شكن امام راحل بوده است به يك معارضه ناحق بي‏حاصل مذهبي و نژادي مبدل گردد.

مگر مي‏توان يك بحث كارشناسا 06;ه تحقيقاتي در مورد مسائل اجتماعي را يك سويه و بدون شنيدن نظرات مقابل مورد بررسي و استناد قرار داد و نتيجه آن را قبلاً اعلام نمود و آن را به گوش همگان رساند...؟

واقعاً حيف است كه فضاي روحاني جلسات جوانان صديق و شرافتمند حزب‏الهي به ميدان گفتگويي تبديل شود كه بخواهيم در آن ثابت كنيم تعداد قربانيان هولوكاست شش ميليون نفر بوده‏ يا به قولي ديگر يك ميليون نفر و ذهن جوانان را به بخشي از ميراث بي‏ارزش تمدن غرب يعني خشونت‏ها 10; نژادي و مذهبي آلوده سازيم.

آقاي رئيس‏جمه 08;ر تشكيل سمينارها 10; متعدد در نفي وجود هولوكاست با اعلام نتايج قبلي آن هيچ دست‏آورد 10; براي ملت ايران و يا مسلمانان جهان و مردم فلسطين نخواهد داشت و فقط عقده‏هاي نژادپرست 75;ن را تسكين مي‏دهد.

 

اين نامه را از سر صدق و صفا و دردمندان 07; براي شما نوشتم، شايد شما خود بتوانيد به هجوم بي‏سابقه تبليغاتي در رسانه‏ها 10; عمومي درباره نفي هولوكاست پايان دهيد و به گوش جهانيان برسانيد كه تمدن ايراني اسلامي هرگز پذيراي افكار نژادپرست 75;نه و نسل‏كشي به هر دست‏آويز و بهانه‏اي نبوده است.

 

با آرزوي سلامت و سعادت و سربلندي براي رهبر معظم انقلاب، حضرتعالي و ملت شريف ايران.

 

با تقديم احترام - ارادتمند

هارون يشايايي

رئيس انجمن كليميان تهران

6 بهمن 84

 
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  Quote Alborz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2006 at 18:42

nice... 



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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2006 at 19:50
That's actually very good.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Mar-2006 at 11:52
why danish newspaper didnt press Holocaust cartoon?
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