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Top 5 Greatest British Leaders
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Top 5 Greatest British Leaders
    Posted: 21-Jul-2008 at 09:30
dooh should have throught of that as I do A2 Politics brain in summer holiday mode though 
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2008 at 14:39
Originally posted by 02bburco

5 Beverage- archietect of welfare state, (although not strictly a leader i cannot put attle as I disagree with other things he did)
   
 
A  better reason for not putting Attlee in this context, is that the Beveridge plan was worked out by a Liberal (Beveridge) commissioned by a Coalition government with a Conservative majority, and essentially basing his work on another Liberal, Keynes. It's happenstance that eventually it was a Labour government that was in power when the recommendations were put into effect.
 
An interesting choice, though.
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2008 at 13:42
1. Thatcher - restored the economy when it was on the brink of collapse (IMF loan) "like it or not we are all thatchers children"
2. Churchill, real symbol for the people lead in the most trying of circumstances, popular
3. Henry VII - iconic even today - kept england safe amoung the powerhouses of Franch Spain HRE - changed england for the better with reformation (no more subservicne to foregin power)
4. Elizabeth- kept england safe amoung the powerhouses of Franch Spain HRE, economy prospered, braught properity to england after the turbluent and often extrist reign of Edward and Marry
5 Beverage- archietect of welfare state, (although not strictly a leader i cannot put attle as I disagree with other things he did)
   
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Posts: 572 		  Quote longshanks31 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2008 at 08:24

sparten, Edward 1 is poorly and unfairly represented, braveheart is much to blame.

Misses T did what was needed, a doctor who refuses to give medicine just because it tastes bad is not a good doctor, we were on the edge of oblivion until she showed up.

substute diana for lennon, not on your nelly, in the list of british casualties on french soil, she wouldnt make my top 100

As for the wiki list, i agree, i love football, but no amount of kicking a bag of air around a feild should qualify a man for that list.

Im more ashamed for our nation by that list than the war in iraq, and that is saying something.
long live the king of bhutan
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2008 at 07:47
Heres what Britons themselves think. I mean Diana greater than the man who beat Napoleon? SIgh
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2008 at 07:45
Longshanks; the Scots will kill you. (and not British to boot).
Ditto, the milk snatcher.
 
Lennon! Please, Diana woud have been better.
 
 
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Posts: 572 		  Quote longshanks31 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2008 at 20:52
I see gordon brown hasnt made the cut yet.
 
Im only going to pick three leaders, one king, one PM, and one other,
 
Edward 1 longshanks (well i would)
 
misses T
 
and Lennon
long live the king of bhutan
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Posts: 818 		  Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2008 at 06:44
My personal picks.
 
1.) Queen Elisabeth I (Her spy network gave her an extreme edge against her rivals.)
2.) Oliver Cromwell (The Lord Protector of the so called short lived Republic. It was a nice try!)
3.) William Pitt (The leading British statesmen of his times.) 
4.) Queen Victoria (I don't know why, but i've liked her ever since i married my wife. Hmmm..)
5.) Winston Churchill (Alot of english speaking politicans since... want to be like him, and always fall far short.)
 
 
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Posts: 646 		  Quote Mughal e Azam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2008 at 05:12
1. James I - created the British Empire
2. Queen Victoria - ruled at the height of Empire
3. Benjamin Disreali - great/savvy Prime Minister
4. Winston Churchill - also great Prime Minister
5. Oliver Cromwell


Edited by Mughal e Azam - 16-Jun-2008 at 05:12
Mughal e Azam
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Posts: 651 		  Quote Richard XIII Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jun-2008 at 22:06
Queen Elisabeth I - the start
Queen Victoria - the pick
Winston Churchill - revival
Oliver Cromwell - wisdom
Sir Francis Drake - the spirit
"I want to know God's thoughts...
...the rest are details."

Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Chookie

For someone who has stated that he will ignore the "English/British deal" you managed to pick one Dutchman (William III) one Anglo-Saxon monarch who died centuries before England existed as a nation (Alfred the Great b. 849 died .899). The rest, other than Longshanks and Elizabeth Tudor are a job lot of minor historical figures.
 
I know William III was Dutch by birth, but I consider his reign in England instrumental in England's rise to dominance.  I have him listed here because of his qualities as a leader of the English.
 
Alfred the Great, king of the West Saxons, was acknowledged king over the Angles and Saxons (considered "England" at the time); the first to claim the title of "King of England" was Offa in 774; after him Egbert united England in 829.  After Athelstan, who united all of Britain under his crown (d. 939), the title of King of England was the primary title used.  I don't know what you consider England as a nation, but I think Alfred is close enough.
 
Those figures aren't minor; many are overlooked when evaluating leaders.  As discussed in my Top 100 Leaders thread, I look for leaders who change the course of their nation for better--changing the trajectory of the nation.
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Posts: 171 		  Quote Chookie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jun-2008 at 21:21
For someone who has stated that he will ignore the "English/British deal" you managed to pick one Dutchman (William III) one Anglo-Saxon monarch who died centuries before England existed as a nation (Alfred the Great b. 849 died .899). The rest, other than Longshanks and Elizabeth Tudor are a job lot of minor historical figures.
For money you did what guns could not do.........
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Posts: 603 		  Quote DSMyers1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jun-2008 at 20:13
My top 5, ignoring the English/British deal:
 
1. King Alfred the Great
2. Queen Elizabeth I
3. Winston Churchill
 
then a big gap and
 
4. Arthur Wellesley, Duke of Wellington
5. Henry VII
 
After that come:
William III
Henry V
Horatio Nelson
Robert Clive
John Churchill, Duke of Marlborough
William Pitt the Elder
Æthelstan
Henry I
Henry II
Oliver Cromwell
Edward III
Edward I Longshanks
Sir Francis Drake
Edward, the Black Prince
 
I guess I need to research all these PMs more.
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Posts: 200 		  Quote Travis Congleton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jun-2008 at 20:10
Just when I think American history [oh ho-hum 200+ years of it] is all messed up, I get to hear the Isle of the Brits' problems in history.
 
I love it.  Wink
 
Only have a top 4:
 
1. Winston Churchill
2. Elizabeth I
3. Victoria
4. Margaret Thatcher
 
 
I love some of the arguments as to why people shouldn't be considered either.  Its like George Washington shouldn't be considered because he was only President for the 13 colonies...   opps!  I mean, 13 states.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jun-2008 at 19:34
Which is never sung iirc.
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Posts: 171 		  Quote Chookie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jun-2008 at 19:09
Originally posted by Sparten

I take it that you also disapprove of playing the UK anthem at England football games. I think it was at some footballl tournament where one of the other home nations objected to England getting the UK anthem (and flag).


Not at all - I disapprove of the so-called UK anthem. As far as I am concerned the English can have it.

Why? Because of it's history. God save the King/Queen became popular in England during the last Jacobite rising when a Jacobite army of approximately 5,000 - 6,000  invaded England.

The last verse of GSTQ is a racist diatribe:-

Lord grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the Queen!
For money you did what guns could not do.........
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jun-2008 at 06:31
I take it that you also disapprove of playing the UK anthem at England football games. I think it was at some footballl tournament where one of the other home nations objected to England getting the UK anthem (and flag).
 
 
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Posts: 171 		  Quote Chookie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2008 at 19:49
Originally posted by Sparten

And using British as a synonym for English is bound to get howls of protest from welshmen, Scots......


Seconded, thirded and fourthed...... This is the type of  thing which really upsets us. It's a good bit more insulting than  calling a Southerner  (US type) a Damnyankee.......

Originally posted by Sparten

and Irish (of the 6 counties type).


A large percentage  of the inhabitants of Ulster consider themselves to British before Irish.
For money you did what guns could not do.........
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Posts: 591 		  Quote Peteratwar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2008 at 08:16
Originally posted by poirot

My Top Five:

My least favorite Briton: Winston Churchill

 
Out of interest why ?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2008 at 07:00
Well tecnically you can't add anyone from before 1707 and after 1801 since Britain only came into being in the former and was abolished in the latter to be replaced by the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.
 
And using British as a synonym for English is bound to get howls of protest from welshmen, Scots and Irish (of the 6 counties type). I remember a few years ago in uni I went to a football match of England (i think it was at Anfield v some south American country) with a friend; an uber patriotic ulsterman, and when they started playing "God save the Queen" the guy started yelling out loud "that thoh UK anthum ya baastards".
 
Or thats what I think he said, always struggled to understand him.
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