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Why invincible Mongol Empire was defeated?

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Why invincible Mongol Empire was defeated?
    Posted: 06-Feb-2006 at 10:50

Main reason of the invincible Mongol Empire's defeat was the mongols are always fighting amongst themselves. And all mongol lords wanted to be a khan. Mongols envied our mongol's success and possessions.

Example:

1. Mongol clans before Genghis always fighted amongst themselves.

2. Amongst  mongol clans.

3. Amongst Jochi and Chaghatai

4. Ogodei and his son Guyuk

5. Amongst Batu and Guyuk

6. Amongst Berke and House of Batu

7. Amongst Kublai and Arigh Boke and etc.

But Genghis was different, he united all stubborn mongols and nomads. Then defeated other empires.

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  Quote Heraclius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Feb-2006 at 16:03
 No empire or army is invincable, both can merely go through a period of dominance over its enemies, neither the dominance nor empire last forever.
A tomb now suffices him for whom the world was not enough.
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  Quote Serge L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Feb-2006 at 16:13
I think the diffusion and perfectioning of firearms reduced and eventualy eliminated the advantages of their war techniques
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  Quote Drunt Ba'adur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Feb-2006 at 04:06
Originally posted by Serge L

I think the diffusion and perfectioning of firearms reduced and eventualy eliminated the advantages of their war techniques

The real mongol empire was defeated before the use of firearms by infantry

The Mongol Empire was never really defeated, but it began to decadence because some reasons. Here some of them:
-Mongols didn't have enough manpower to control all the Empire
-The descendants of Temujin fought among themselves(you just have to look Guyuk-Batu, AriqBoke-Kubilai, GoldenHorde-IlKhanate...
-Mongol Empire was several times divided in different Khanates (and the kuriltai was powerless after Kublai)
-Mongol war tactics were used by their enemies (you can see that in the Ain-Jalut battle)
-Mongol Empire by the time of Kublai(if you consider her dynasty being the Mongol Empire) was no longer mongol. It was a new chinese dynasty with mongol sovereigns and a mongol army(I'm not sure if the army was almost all based in original mongol army, but I'm doubtful. Probably it was heavly based in chinese infantry)
-The Empire is too big. You just can't control an empire from Caucasus to Korea
-...


Edited by Drunt Ba'adur
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Feb-2006 at 10:01

I agree with Heraclius... just for a period of time, an empire's able to rule over enemies (or other nations). Our ancestors defeated because their time was up, due to the problems they faced above mentioned by Falco and Drant Ba'atur.

Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Feb-2006 at 15:34
Why invincible Mongol Empire was defeated?


Obviously beause it wasn't invincible

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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Feb-2006 at 21:25
The Mongol Empire, broke up because of infighting after Genghis Khans death. The various mongol Khanates, were often never defeated but gradually blended into the conqured populations. The last fragment of the mongol empire, the Mughal Empire was overthrown in 1857 by the British.
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  Quote Drunt Ba'adur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Feb-2006 at 21:54
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

The Mongol Empire, broke up because of infighting after Genghis Khans death. The various mongol Khanates, were often never defeated but gradually blended into the conqured populations. The last fragment of the mongol empire, the Mughal Empire was overthrown in 1857 by the British.

I think the last 'mongol heir'(and that would be very doubtful) died a few time later. It was a sovereign of Bukhara or some city near there

and I think that we shouldn't consider Babur dynasty a heir of Mongol Empire
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Feb-2006 at 22:20
Originally posted by Drunt Ba'adur

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

The Mongol Empire, broke up because of infighting after Genghis Khans death. The various mongol Khanates, were often never defeated but gradually blended into the conqured populations. The last fragment of the mongol empire, the Mughal Empire was overthrown in 1857 by the British.

I think the last 'mongol heir'(and that would be very doubtful) died a few time later. It was a sovereign of Bukhara or some city near there

and I think that we shouldn't consider Babur dynasty a heir of Mongol Empire

When did the Russians get control of Central asia? Oh, wait, Bukhara was a dependency until soviet times so your probably right.
Babur and his decendents always considered themselves Mongols, and at the time of conquest Indians considered Babur to be a mongol. I just put a big post on the thread about the maps about it.
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  Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Feb-2006 at 19:49
Mongols lost due to climate vietnam syria and india all too hot for them
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Feb-2006 at 21:07
After Timur captured Delhi he left because his troops didn't like the climate
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2006 at 10:07

Originally posted by BigL

Mongols lost due to climate vietnam syria and india all too hot for them

Sorry, the temperature in Mongolia, average range in winter -30C (-22F), in summer 27C (80F). Our capital is coldest capital in the world.

That's why mongol people didn't afraid of those climate.

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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2006 at 10:45
But if you're used to dry cold, you may hate the humid hot of India. 

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  Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2006 at 16:51
It was the diseases in vietnam and burma which killed mongol men combined with the humidity which killed horses in places like india.Mongol horses dont like the humidity but love the dry areas
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  Quote Esquire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2006 at 02:51

Originally posted by Heraclius

 No empire or army is invincable, both can merely go through a period of dominance over its enemies, neither the dominance nor empire last forever.

This first entry sums it up....everything else are just details. (In the second half of the 20th C & likely first half 21st C the United States was/is the "nvincable" empire....someone else will then take over. This is what History teaches.)

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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2006 at 08:17

Oh Maju, my English is not good; could you please tell me what all those funny smilies are?

Take care...

Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2006 at 08:23

By the way, freedom of speech is respected anywhere in the world; but to its limits... you shouldn't offend people by your word.

Now, it's not only about Politics. It's also about my brother Falco...

Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote Heraclius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Feb-2006 at 07:16
Originally posted by Esquire

Originally posted by Heraclius

 No empire or army is invincable, both can merely go through a period of dominance over its enemies, neither the dominance nor empire last forever.

This first entry sums it up....everything else are just details. (In the second half of the 20th C & likely first half 21st C the United States was/is the "nvincable" empire....someone else will then take over. This is what History teaches.)

 Exactly, sooner or later a new power will rise and America will decline, a new period of dominance will then be ushered in by an apparently *invincable* power. It goes in cycles and will remain that way for aslong as there are empires or global spheres of influence like what America has.

A tomb now suffices him for whom the world was not enough.
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  Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Feb-2006 at 03:14
Originally posted by BigL

It was the diseases in vietnam and burma which killed mongol men combined with the humidity which killed horses in places like india.Mongol horses dont like the humidity but love the dry areas


     Also their sinew bows didn't have the same power or accuracy in the more humid areas around the Indus.
Mass Murderers Agree: Gun Control Works!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Resistance

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  Quote Mangudai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Feb-2006 at 13:12

Also, after decades of endless campaigns and fighting the mongol numbers must have dwindled. Battle-casualties and deaths from desease must have finished off a significant part of all the nomad warriors, and then the numbers of born children must have been affected dramaticly as the men were away for years and women were left alone

The effects of small nations embarking upon huge and costly campaigns can be illustrated by the Swedish campaigns in the 17th and 18th centuries, where a great deal of all adult males died and the population shrunk as a result of the otherwise often quite successful wars.

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Ossfok i s kringest sturwekster sttliger. Summer v kulluma i riktit finer!
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