Do muslims really embrace the west?

Originally posted by Loknar do they really embrace western beliefs?

Originally posted by Heraclius I believe if you live in a country you must adapt to its culture and way of life

Right I have to ask. What the hell are western beliefs anyway?
Name me any western belief that has existed for 100 years?

Originally posted by flyingzone 'The Muslim world needs to do something to appease the West. Since Ayatullah Khomeini declared a death sentence against Salman Rushdie for how he depicted Muhammad in his book The Satanic Verses, Islamic radicals have been essentially threatening the free discussion of their religion and politics in the West. Rushdie escaped with his life. But Pim Fortuyn, a Dutch politician who stood up against Muslim immigrant hostility to equality for women and gays, was murdered on the street. Theo van Gogh, a Dutch filmmaker who offended strict Muslims, was killed thereafter. Several other Dutch politicians who have dared to criticize the intolerance of many Muslims live with police protection.' This is a point that I have made several times on different threads. I haven't gotten any feedback from any of the Muslim forumers here ono that.

Pim Fortuyn never heard of. van Gogh, good shot. Salman Rushdie, better be prepare for one too.

Now on muslim intolerance. Muslims in the west have made huge accomodations from what they are used to and expect, muslims in the west tolerate all the western behavior. But every person has there limit.

Originally posted by flyingzone You can respect a religion without honoring its taboos. I eat pork, and I'm not an anti-Semite. As a Catholic, I don't expect atheists to genuflect before an altar.

Just a slight difference. You're not trying to force us to eat pork. You can do what you like in private where it is only you who are affected, but don't attack us. That cartoon was an attack upon Islam and muslims everywhere.

Originally posted by flyingzone The Arab media run cartoons depicting Jews and the symbols of the Jewish faith with imagery indistinguishable from that used in the Third Reich. But I have yet to see Jews or Israelis threaten the lives of Muslims because of it.'

Apparently the author has never watched a holliwood film, nor seen what the Israelis do in the Philistine.

Originally posted by flyingzone So where were the Muslim boycotts of Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan after that horrifying event?

hello? We attacked Afghanistan and the Saudis are hunting down the terrorists.

Originally posted by flyingzone They were designed to reveal Islamic intolerance--and they have now done so, in abundance

They were designed to start a war thats what.

Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival There should've been a reaction to the comics. What is happening now is an OVERreaction.

There is an over reaction because the europeans are fueling the fire by refusing to comdemn the cartoons

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim There is an over reaction because the europeans are fueling the fire by refusing to comdemn the cartoons

The Europeans were not the first to use violence in this affair to express themselves.  You can't have freedom of speech with the fear that if you really offend someone they'll kill you.

Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival Originally posted by Omar al Hashim There is an over reaction because the europeans are fueling the fire by refusing to comdemn the cartoons      Didn't they fire the guy who re-ran the comic? And didn't the Danes apologize for "realizing that many Muslims were offended"? I don't see people burning anything other than Danish flags, and calling for boycotts of Danish goods.

Saying, "we apologise for offending muslim people but we defend the right for someone to print it again" is not condemning the cartoon.
Firing the guy who re-ran the cartoon is a much better response but as far as I know that has only happened in one French Newspaper.

Originally posted by Genghis Originally posted by Omar al Hashim There is an over reaction because the europeans are fueling the fire by refusing to comdemn the cartoons The Europeans were not the first to use violence in this affair to express themselves.  You can't have freedom of speech with the fear that if you really offend someone they'll kill you.

People are resorting to violence because they believe that there is no other way for their opinions to be heard. The European Justice system appears not to be providing any method for people to fight against offensive behavior peacefully.

Originally posted by Genghis Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Originally posted by Genghis Originally posted by Omar al Hashim There is an over reaction because the europeans are fueling the fire by refusing to comdemn the cartoons The Europeans were not the first to use violence in this affair to express themselves.  You can't have freedom of speech with the fear that if you really offend someone they'll kill you. People are resorting to violence because they believe that there is no other way for their opinions to be heard. The European Justice system appears not to be providing any method for people to fight against offensive behavior peacefully. That's ridiculous, the Syrians, Saudis, Iranians, and Libyans have pulled their ambassadors, there was a boycott, and demonstrations.  The message was being sent loud and clear before fires were started.

Ok, I didn't think of that.
People are resorting to voilence because they are stupid and feel they have no power, even if they are wrong.

Originally posted by Genghis I think a lot of this is just because European and Islamic culture are on two entirely different wavelengths.

Now that is a statement full of truth

Now on muslim intolerance. Muslims in the west have made huge accomodations from what they are used to and expect, muslims in the west tolerate all the western behavior. But every person has there limit.

Well, if you as a guest cant tolerate the people already living there, then get the hell out.
Why am I as a westerner supposed to accept that if a man from Pakistan rapes a 16 year old girl for dressing as a slut it�s his culture and what they do in Pakistan? Well you know what? f*** Pakistan (I dont mean that to the whole country. I know they actually execute rapists), I don�t care what they do there. This is the west, it falls in YOU to assimilate. If you don�t want to then get the hell out.
Am I as a westerner supposed to cover up our billboards that shows women with out veils and dressed in a bikini? DO I have to stop eating pork in a restaurant because Muslims don�t eat pork? Tell me, what do I have to do to accommodate Muslims?
If I immigrate to Saudi Arabia, and I�m offended that my wife must wear a veil should I make her wear one? What if I say no I wont listen because I�m offended? Well the Saudis would be pissed off because it insults their culture and they as the inhabitants of that land have every right to make my wife wear one (though my western belief says otherwise but that�s a talk for another time).

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim People are resorting to violence because they believe that there is no other way for their opinions to be heard. The European Justice system appears not to be providing any method for people to fight against offensive behavior peacefully.

No. The judicial system allows for freedom of speech. And it's very insultng that you pretend us to change the laws just to fit with your violent demands.

After all, Islam may forbid Muslims to draw Mohammed... but it can't forbid non-Muslims anything. Doing otherwise would be religious fascism.

I strongly resent the comments on those placards, but am not alarmed since they do not by far represent the body of muslims in britian. since the faces of the ring leaders are obvious to the news junkies in britian. The people doing the shouting may be of low IQ but the organisers certainly are not and appearences can be deceptive.

They are well organised and their message in all its coarse bruteness and vulgarity has a very subtle message. It is a well constructed message that is political and not from religious perspective. If you look beyond the placards what they are awaiting is the opportunity to shout hypocricy, and denounce the west's claim to freedom of speech. Since they are obviously practicing it and they have taken the initiative by challenging the govt to arrest them. So to say why were you so keen to define the boundaries on freedom of speech now.

To use the old english idiomatic proverb: You cant have your cake and eat it too. i.e something has to give.

Originally posted by Maju

After all, Islam may forbid Muslims to draw Mohammed... but it can't forbid non-Muslims anything. Doing otherwise would be religious fascism.
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I agree, but does that give non muslims the right to make fun of a religion ? I think the answer is yes, but it is morally wrong and a sign of non respect.

Religions are too sensitive, people believe in this stuff too much. It is in fact, as Karl Marx said it, opium for the people.

Cheers.