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Topic ClosedDo muslims really embrace the west?

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Do muslims really embrace the west?
    Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 16:27






I must say, I am absolutely stunned. I thought, what was a protest, has now degraded into pure hate. In any protest, or boycott, this is unacceptable. Yes they have the freedom to say people who insult Islam should be beheaded.

But, the fact remains, why are they even in Europe? From these pictures I can only come to the conclusion that they hate Europe and if anybody insults Islam they want gallons of human blood on their hands.

I always believed "no not all Muslims are like that..." but looking at this how the hell can I still believe that? If I was a Muslim I'd worry allot about he reputation of my religion and not go around with such signs as "prepare for the real holocaust".

The real question is, do they really embrace western beliefs? I mean in general, not just on freedom of speech. It seems that they dont. Looking at these pictures how can I believe that these people love the west? I'd really suggest they move back to their homelands of they have such a problem with Europe. There are many developed nations outside the west, such as UAE and Saudi Arabia.

Then there are also Muslims in America. Muslims in America to my knowledge to participate in such radical protests. The usual Muslim in America is upper middle class and doesnt have a problem with the west.

This cartoon stuff has really forced me to reexamine my belief on Muslims (in Europe) and the west. I really thought that the ones in the west were not like the ones in the middle east, and that even the ones in the middle east were not all terrorists or had terrorist sympathies. But, and I ask a Muslim, how can I continue to believe that when i see these pictures?

Honestly, Im, quite shocked at this.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 16:34

 

well since they are citizens (many are) in the "West" then they are part of the West.

 

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 16:40

no need for word-tricks azimuth

loknar is right

these pictures can not be justified

but west must also consider the real time conditions made these radicals emerge. Action brings reaction

this much is too much though

history is just a repetation of itself
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 16:47

of course cebeci I agree with you to a certain extent. But i believe overall, these terrorists that developed (in part due to the west) would have developed anyway even if we werent there.

The real goal of terrorists is to unite the Islamic world under a Caliph based on extreme Islam. The reason they are pointed against the west is because the west was always the biggest hindrance. If the west wasnt there theyd be doing it against their own governments.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 16:48

 

iam not playing with anything, they are Westerners (living in the west) since they took the citizenship.

just wanted to clear that.

about the pictures i think they are too much and not acceptable.

maybe they are saying such things to show that "freedom of speach" like this could offend some Europeans. so they are practing it?

anyway still not acceptable , and signs like this shows ignorance since those people are in Europe too so the holocaust they are talking about will include them too.

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 16:50
Funny pictures...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 16:54
You can find equally unacceptable points of view among those from every cultural background and members of every religion.

Look at nationalist protests in Serbia, or listen to Jewish ultranationlists in the West Bank, or anti-American protests anywhere in the world.

Just because the Islamic stream of this extremism is against you and the other forms generally aren't doesn't make the other forms any less disgusting or any less a part of the reality of the world.

You can allow something like this to form your impression of all Muslims, that's fine. But don't be surprised if we view all Christians by the slogans at Serbian Radical Party rallies ("The Muslims of Bosnia will be the fertilizer of a Greater Serbian state!") or all Jews by the signs leading into illegal settlements in the West Bank ("No dogs, no rats, no Arabs!").
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 17:02
Originally posted by Loknar






I must say, I am absolutely stunned. I thought, what was a protest, has now degraded into pure hate. In any protest, or boycott, this is unacceptable. Yes they have the freedom to say people who insult Islam should be beheaded.

But, the fact remains, why are they even in Europe? From these pictures I can only come to the conclusion that they hate Europe and if anybody insults Islam they want gallons of human blood on their hands.

I always believed "no not all Muslims are like that..." but looking at this how the hell can I still believe that? If I was a Muslim I'd worry allot about he reputation of my religion and not go around with such signs as "prepare for the real holocaust".

The real question is, do they really embrace western beliefs? I mean in general, not just on freedom of speech. It seems that they dont. Looking at these pictures how can I believe that these people love the west? I'd really suggest they move back to their homelands of they have such a problem with Europe. There are many developed nations outside the west, such as UAE and Saudi Arabia.

Then there are also Muslims in America. Muslims in America to my knowledge to participate in such radical protests. The usual Muslim in America is upper middle class and doesnt have a problem with the west.

This cartoon stuff has really forced me to reexamine my belief on Muslims (in Europe) and the west. I really thought that the ones in the west were not like the ones in the middle east, and that even the ones in the middle east were not all terrorists or had terrorist sympathies. But, and I ask a Muslim, how can I continue to believe that when i see these pictures?

Honestly, Im, quite shocked at this.

*BURPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP*

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 17:09
     I agree with Mila due to the simple fact that those pictures are not representative of the majority of Muslims. Most Muslims in the west generally embrace it as best as they can.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 17:15

 I am as angry at the fact these Muslims live in the west, yet seem to be totally unwilling to embrace our culture and values. These people are obviously not representative of all Muslims, but some of them live in my country but act like they are still back in their country of origin.

 I believe if you live in a country you must adapt to its culture and way of life, I tire of people like those in the photos living here in the west but not caring one iota for us or the country they now reside in.

 That is unacceptable as is the sick message they are sending, these kind of *protests* should be stopped immediately, its outrageous that they can say "behead those who insult Islam" yet if I in my own country say anything remotely negative about a Muslim or Islam in general i'd be likely to be arrested.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 17:22
Originally posted by Heraclius

 I am as angry at the fact these Muslims live in the west, yet seem to be totally unwilling to embrace our culture and values. These people are obviously not representative of all Muslims, but some of them live in my country but act like they are still back in their country of origin.

 I believe if you live in a country you must adapt to its culture and way of life, I tire of people like those in the photos living here in the west but not caring one iota for us or the country they now reside in.

 That is unacceptable as is the sick message they are sending, these kind of *protests* should be stopped immediately, its outrageous that they can say "behead those who insult Islam" yet if I in my own country say anything remotely negative about a Muslim or Islam in general i'd be likely to be arrested.

I agree with you, they should got arrested or something for being such pro-extreem.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 17:31
Originally posted by TeldeIndus

[

Stop acting like afairy and vote for the far right, instead of trying to justify it like a poof




Would you please care to explain above statement, I'm not quite sure what you mean here.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 17:32

Those pics, do not represent the majority of muslims leaving in the West.Those in the pics should be deported back to their countries.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 17:33
Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival

     I agree with Mila due to the simple fact that those pictures are not representative of the majority of Muslims. Most Muslims in the west generally embrace it as best as they can.


Yes, but the cartoonist represent the danish people or the western countries , no?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 17:34

Originally posted by Mila

You can find equally unacceptable points of view among those from every cultural background and members of every religion.

Look at nationalist protests in Serbia, or listen to Jewish ultranationlists in the West Bank, or anti-American protests anywhere in the world.

Just because the Islamic stream of this extremism is against you and the other forms generally aren't doesn't make the other forms any less disgusting or any less a part of the reality of the world.

You can allow something like this to form your impression of all Muslims, that's fine. But don't be surprised if we view all Christians by the slogans at Serbian Radical Party rallies ("The Muslims of Bosnia will be the fertilizer of a Greater Serbian state!") or all Jews by the signs leading into illegal settlements in the West Bank ("No dogs, no rats, no Arabs!").

I agree, every community has it's radical fringe.

The KKK and Neo-Nazis don't represent America.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 17:39
Good point, sdavidr.

I agree with your reasoning, Spartakus, but I disagree with deporting them. That will just increase the likelihood they'll end up joining a terrorist organization and end up being an even greater problem in the future.

They are Western citizens, they should be treated as such. They should be charged with everything from disturbing the peace to promoting terrorism or issueing threats to treason.

They should be given the harshest sentences allowable under the law, even as high as the death penalty for treason here such a punishment exists.

This is something we can't afford to just sweep under our rug, or someone elses. It has to be confronted head on.

Free speech should be contained not by government but by a society's sense of responsibility. Papers should not be allowed to print such cartoons, which make no comment and serve no purpose - at least none which could not be expressed in equally shocking but less disrespectful ways.

And certainly citizens of any state should not be allowed to stand in full view of the public and wish death and destruction on any of their fellow countrymen.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 17:46
Originally posted by sdavidr


Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival

I agree with Mila due to the simple fact that those
pictures are not representative of the majority of Muslims. Most
Muslims in the west generally embrace it as best as they can.
Yes, but the cartoonist represent the danish people or the western countries , no?


No they don't. Most western people in Western countries have expressed their disgust about the tasteless and xenophobic content of the cartoons.

But to use the quotation usually described to Voltaire: "I do not agree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 17:49
Originally posted by sdavidr

Yes, but the cartoonist represent the danish people or the western countries , no?


     No. That was my point. The Muslims in the protests don't represent the majority of Muslims. Likewise, the Danish comic does not represent most Danes or westerners. Calling for economic embargos and torching embassies makes it seem like they are stereotyping the whole country after a silly comic.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 17:49
Originally posted by azimuth

well since they are citizens (many are) in the "West" then they are part of the West.
 



Not quite. They emigrated to the West and they were given citizenship assuming that they wanted to integrate in the Western society. Instead, they refused that and are now acting as a fifth column.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 17:50

Originally posted by sdavidr

Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival

     I agree with Mila due to the simple fact that those pictures are not representative of the majority of Muslims. Most Muslims in the west generally embrace it as best as they can.


Yes, but the cartoonist represent the danish people or the western countries , no?

By your analogy with the cartoonist, they're just expressing freedom of speech. Personally I think punishing people who transgress the boundaries is fine, as the ones above are - the death penalty - umm, that's a bit harsh, but lock up would be alright. I guess the cartoonist could also come under the category of incitement - inciting people to riot. It's probably a good analogy, though one was provocative, the other reactionary.

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