Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Languages of your country
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 6789>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Arbr Z View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 26-May-2006
Location: Albania
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 598 		  Quote Arbr Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Languages of your country
    Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 11:29

And BTW, this thread was started By Cyrus Shahmiri, who was interested to know which languages are spoken in your country.

There are other topics arguing on Macedonian language, and dealing with it.
Prej heshtjes...!
Back to Top
Patrinos View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 05-Sep-2006
Location: Moreas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 473 		  Quote Patrinos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 11:36
Come on Arber, all the internet is full of maps about Greater Albania including "cameria".
I think that you as a nation are in the phase that the rest of Balkanians(Greeks,Bulgarians, Serbs etc) were 100 years before during the Balkan Wars.
Back to Top
Arbr Z View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 26-May-2006
Location: Albania
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 598 		  Quote Arbr Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 11:55
Originally posted by Patrinos

Come on Arber, all the internet is full of maps about Greater Albania including "cameria".
I think that you as a nation are in the phase that the rest of Balkanians(Greeks,Bulgarians, Serbs etc) were 100 years before during the Balkan Wars.
 
Well, there are plenty of maps showing a strange shape of greece, which reaches until Neaples (Napoli), and as far as Eastern Anatolia, including also Romania. So please, keep it civil. Try to read behind the words, try to understand who posts those maps, and why do they do so. Albania is as great as it is, probably it will unite with Kosova after some decenias (if the will want to do so). Nothing more.
But there are albanians in northern greece, as well as greeks in southern albania. As I have posted different times before, the existence of these minorities should be perceived as a chance to improve the relations, not as a casus belli.
Prej heshtjes...!
Back to Top
EGETRK View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 16-Sep-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 300 		  Quote EGETRK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 17:04
Originally posted by perikles

ok lets play your game. these are nationalist moved there by the turkish govenment just for the football match in order for the media to say the things youo are write. You cannot prove i am wrong or the opposite. I can upload 1000 photos edited in photoshop that you can see at easter 12000 people in Istanbul holding greeks flags. The photos are not prooving nothing in this situations. I fyou have any other prooves i could be happy to see them
Turkish Governement??Moved there??Tayyipos? did it?AAHAHAHA you are unbelivable...ı have nothing o say...Theories,theories...But i say:You are Wrong!!!For see Trabzon Reality,you have to live İn Trkiye...
The lands of the of the West may be armored with walls of steel,
But I have borders guarded by the mighty chest of a believer...
Back to Top
Bulldog View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 17-May-2006
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2800 		  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 20:15
Perikles look if your in doubt go to Trabzon yourself, tell them they're all stupid Greeks who think they're Turks, tell them to rise against terible Turks and be against Turkey and lets see if you make it out to tell us the tale. You should realise that Trabzon, Rize and that area are staunchly Nationalistic areas and that Laz are not Greek but originally Georgian who converted to Islam and under Pax-Ottomanica and living together with Turks now are part of Turkish society but with their own culture aswell. I've spoken to many Laz who say they're Laz and at the same time feel patriotically Turkish and I mean patriotic.
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine

Back to Top
EGETRK View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 16-Sep-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 300 		  Quote EGETRK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2006 at 08:49
and also,in Trk there is not a lot of Laz in Trabzon...We name that every Karasenizian is Laz...There is more laz in Rize and Artvin than Trabzon...
The lands of the of the West may be armored with walls of steel,
But I have borders guarded by the mighty chest of a believer...
Back to Top
Ellin View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 13-Jul-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 135 		  Quote Ellin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2006 at 09:21

There is definately no connection between Laz and Pontians, even the Turks made the distinction, in that the latter were referred to as Rum, and yes, like the others mentioned, the Laz are of Georgian stock.  The Laz have been influenced by certain aspects of Pontian culture, which is why they are being correlated.


Originally posted by EGETURK

İ can not understand how can you believe to Wikipedia's infos...Everybody can wirte there what they want.


Well it was a 'Turk' (by your standards), author of Pontus Kultura~Civilisation of Pontus, who supports these figures.. I'll even give you a non Wikipedia source! haha

Omer Asan belongs to the post-dictatorship generation. He came to Hellas 
last year for the launching of the Greek edition of his book, and this interview 
was conducted during his visit.

"Are there Hellenic-speakers in Turkey today who speak the Pontian dialect?"

There are still people in Turkey today who speak and understand Pontian which is the oldest 
surviving Hellenic dialect. The members of this community come from Trebizond and are scattered 
throughout Turkey or have emigrated to other countries. Pontian spoken in 60 villages in the
Trebizond region, most of them in the Of area. At a conservative estimate. 
I would say this dialect is spoken by around 300000 people.
http://www.hellas.org/asia_minor/omerasan.htm




Originally posted by Anton

I talk about FYROM and slavomacedonians.  They are probably most insulted nation 
(or ethnic group) in the world :(
It takes more than place of birth to be entitled to the Macedonian heritage, much much more  
-- that I found pathetic.


(btw thanks perikles)

They are being insulted??.. If i were you, i wouldn't be insulted by my pathetic comment, but by the 
very people you feel sorry for, because they have turned their back on you and your ancestors.

I take it, if i moved into your home, and laid stakes to your family tree/ancestry, titles of your property, 
and made claims to your family heirlooms.. just because we live under the same roof... you'd 
be all for it ???

Originally posted by Arber Z

Perikles, boy, could you stop this paranoia????Albania has no claims on Greece, the only thing that we claim that should be respected is the albanian comunity of Greece, their human and cultural rights. And thats it.


If things were that bad, then why is it that more and more Albanians are flocking to Greece, compared to the dwindling numbers of Greeks in Albania.

Originally posted by Arber Z

But there are albanians in northern greece, as well as greeks in southern albania. As I have posted different times before, the existence of these minorities


One's an immigrant minority and the other's an indigenous minority.  There's a difference.
Albanians always have a home to go back to, if they don't like it right?, but the Greeks will have to forfeit their 'home' and therefore end up with the "short end of the stick".



Edited by Ellin - 30-Sep-2006 at 09:24
Back to Top
Arbr Z View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 26-May-2006
Location: Albania
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 598 		  Quote Arbr Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2006 at 11:28
If things were that bad, then why is it that more and more Albanians are flocking to Greece, compared to the dwindling numbers of Greeks in Albania.
 
Because they are in need, and they want to work, while greece needs workers


One's an immigrant minority and the other's an indigenous minority.  There's a difference.
Albanians always have a home to go back to, if they don't like it right?, but the Greeks will have to forfeit their 'home' and therefore end up with the "short end of the stick".

Now I dont want to start a useless discussion on this topic, the Greeks of Albania are very honured citizens of this country and never had to forfait their home.
In Greece there exists also an albanian speaking community, and this is widely accepted, as they still exist under cultural oppression. I am not speaking for the emmigrants. If you dont believe this, than read what Venizelos said in the Versaille conference, regarding the border with Albania that had to be shaped by an international commission. Venizelos accepted the albanian as a language widely spoken in Greece. You can find it at the Actae Diplomatica of that event.
When I go to Ioannina, Arta, Preveza, Konitsa etc I still find people who speak albanian, although most of the community was forced to take "the short end of the stick". So please, nobody had any claims, but do not be egocentric
Prej heshtjes...!
Back to Top
xristar View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 05-Nov-2005
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1028 		  Quote xristar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2006 at 13:06
There's a difference between Albanians and Arvanites Arber. Arvanites don't feel Albanian, and they don't feel Albania to be their representative in Greece. It is true that arvanitic, just as vlachic, is not taught in school, but arvanites are certainly not oppressed.
The albanians of Epirus are a different matter. I don't know much of their existence, I know however that they were forced out of the country, due to what they did to the Greek population during the Italian and German fascist occupation of the country.

Defeat allows no explanation
Victory needs none.
It insults the dead when you treat life carelessly.
Back to Top
EGETRK View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 16-Sep-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 300 		  Quote EGETRK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2006 at 14:03
Originally posted by Ellin




Omer Asan

Finaly,You could found a Pontusian...İ think he is one of them...
The lands of the of the West may be armored with walls of steel,
But I have borders guarded by the mighty chest of a believer...
Back to Top
Arbr Z View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 26-May-2006
Location: Albania
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 598 		  Quote Arbr Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2006 at 14:09
Originally posted by xristar

There's a difference between Albanians and Arvanites Arber. Arvanites don't feel Albanian, and they don't feel Albania to be their representative in Greece. It is true that arvanitic, just as vlachic, is not taught in school, but arvanites are certainly not oppressed.
The albanians of Epirus are a different matter. I don't know much of their existence, I know however that they were forced out of the country, due to what they did to the Greek population during the Italian and German fascist occupation of the country.
 
Xristar, I wasnt speaking of the arvanites. the albanians of Epirus, as you named them, were greek citizens. I have never heard of the ostracization of a whole community. If they supported a certain regime, then you find those, and you put them in jail. But let me say what I think, I dont believe the whole community cooperated with the Italians & Germans. As it always happens, the responsible are the leaders. Anyway, I just dont want to discuss this here, who is interested, let him open a new thread and ask me.
Prej heshtjes...!
Back to Top
xristar View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 05-Nov-2005
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1028 		  Quote xristar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Oct-2006 at 07:21
I'm not saying if it was just or not, I'm saying that a big (if not whole apparently) part of the albanian community was 'ostracized' (that's not exactly the best term, but I'll use it).

Defeat allows no explanation
Victory needs none.
It insults the dead when you treat life carelessly.
Back to Top
omergun View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 24-Sep-2006
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 106 		  Quote omergun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Oct-2006 at 17:52
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Iran (Population: around 70 m)

1.Azeri (23.5 m)
2.Persian (22 m)
3.Kurdish (6.7 m)
4.Gilaki (3.2 m)
5.Mazani (3.2 m)
6.Luri (2.3 m)
7.Turkmen (2 m)
8.Qashqai (1.5 m)
9.Arabic (1.4 m)
10.Domari (1.3 m)
11.Laki (1 m)
12.Bakhtiari (1 m)
13.Baluchi (0.9 m)
14.Khorasani Turkish (0.5 m)
15.Dari (0.3 m)
16.Armenian (0.2 m)
17.Hazaragi (0.2 m)
18.Takestani (0.2 m)
19.Aimaq (0.2 m)
20.Pashto (0.1 m)



How could you say Turkmen, Azeri and not Trkish instead? Very weird pre-judgements and hateful thoughts. Trkmen and Azeri are Trkish people, and they talk Trkish. ca. 50 % of Irans population are Trkish, but still you are talking like this...
Back to Top
perikles View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 28-Jul-2006
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 373 		  Quote perikles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 06:02
50% are Turkic origin in Iran?

ok look at this stats.

Population:
66,622,704 (July 2002 est.)
Age structure:
0-14 years: 31.6% (male 10,753,218; female 10,273,015)
15-64 years: 63.7% (male 21,383,542; female 21,096,307)
65 years and over: 4.7% (male 1,633,016; female 1,483,606) (2002 est.)
Population growth rate:
0.77% (2002 est.)
Birth rate:
17.54 births/1,000 population (2002 est.)
Death rate:
5.39 deaths/1,000 population (2002 est.)
Net migration rate:
-4.46 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2002 est.)
Sex ratio:
at birth: 1.05 male(s)/female
under 15 years: 1.05 male(s)/female
15-64 years: 1.01 male(s)/female
65 years and over: 1.1 male(s)/female
total population: 1.03 male(s)/female (2002 est.)
Infant mortality rate:
28.07 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.)
Life expectancy at birth:
total population: 70.25 years
female: 71.69 years (2002 est.)
male: 68.87 years
Total fertility rate:
2.01 children born/woman (2002 est.)
HIV/AIDS - adult prevalence rate:
less than 0.01% (1999 est.)
HIV/AIDS - people living with HIV/AIDS:
NA
HIV/AIDS - deaths:
NA
Nationality:
noun: Iranian(s)
adjective: Iranian
Ethnic groups:
Persian 51%, Azeri 24%, Gilaki and Mazandarani 8%, Kurd 7%, Arab 3%, Lur 2%, Baloch 2%, Turkmen 2%, other 1%
Religions:
Shi'a Muslim 89%, Sunni Muslim 10%, Zoroastrian, Jewish, Christian, and Baha'i 1%
Languages:
Persian and Persian dialects 58%, Turkic and Turkic dialects 26%, Kurdish 9%, Luri 2%, Balochi 1%, Arabic 1%, Turkish 1%, other 2%
Literacy:
definition: age 15 and over can read and write
total population: 72.1%
male: 78.4%
female: 65.8% (1994 est.)

your sources are wrong mate.
    

Edited by perikles - 02-Oct-2006 at 06:03
Samos national guard.

260 days left.
Back to Top
akritas View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Hegemom

Joined: 17-Sep-2005
Location: Greek Macedonia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1460 		  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 06:59

Originally posted by Arbr Z

In Greece there exists also an albanian speaking community, and this is widely accepted, as they still exist under cultural oppression. I am not speaking for the emmigrants. If you dont believe this, than read what Venizelos said in the Versaille conference, regarding the border with Albania that had to be shaped by an international commission. Venizelos accepted the albanian as a language widely spoken in Greece. You can find it at the Actae Diplomatica of that event.

When I go to Ioannina, Arta, Preveza, Konitsa etc I still find people who speak albanian, although most of the community was forced to take "the short end of the stick". So please, nobody had any claims, but do not be egocentric
Arber as I see again try to find Albanians in Greece , specially in an region that suffered a lot from the faschists Chams durinf the Nazis occupation. And I call them faschists because coloborated with the Nazis.Below is an official document from the C.M. Woodhouse that described simply the Cham issue.
The Chams were not popular either and in Albania as the British Liaison and known historian said.
I would like Arber  to open a thread regarding the issue to exchange atgyments as about the supposing Albanian minoity in Greece and the Chams issue and not to guide any thread  in an issue that recucling from the (your) Albanian side.
 
 
 
Now as about the thread the only billeteral Greeks that speak Albanian dialect are the Arvanites.


Edited by akritas - 02-Oct-2006 at 07:03
Back to Top
omergun View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 24-Sep-2006
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 106 		  Quote omergun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 09:32
Originally posted by perikles

50% are Turkic origin in Iran?

ok look at this stats.

Population:
66,622,704 (July 2002 est.)
Age structure:
0-14 years: 31.6% (male 10,753,218; female 10,273,015)
15-64 years: 63.7% (male 21,383,542; female 21,096,307)
65 years and over: 4.7% (male 1,633,016; female 1,483,606) (2002 est.)
Population growth rate:
0.77% (2002 est.)
Birth rate:
17.54 births/1,000 population (2002 est.)
Death rate:
5.39 deaths/1,000 population (2002 est.)
Net migration rate:
-4.46 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2002 est.)
Sex ratio:
at birth: 1.05 male(s)/female
under 15 years: 1.05 male(s)/female
15-64 years: 1.01 male(s)/female
65 years and over: 1.1 male(s)/female
total population: 1.03 male(s)/female (2002 est.)
Infant mortality rate:
28.07 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.)
Life expectancy at birth:
total population: 70.25 years
female: 71.69 years (2002 est.)
male: 68.87 years
Total fertility rate:
2.01 children born/woman (2002 est.)
HIV/AIDS - adult prevalence rate:
less than 0.01% (1999 est.)
HIV/AIDS - people living with HIV/AIDS:
NA
HIV/AIDS - deaths:
NA
Nationality:
noun: Iranian(s)
adjective: Iranian
Ethnic groups:
Persian 51%, Azeri 24%, Gilaki and Mazandarani 8%, Kurd 7%, Arab 3%, Lur 2%, Baloch 2%, Turkmen 2%, other 1%
Religions:
Shi'a Muslim 89%, Sunni Muslim 10%, Zoroastrian, Jewish, Christian, and Baha'i 1%
Languages:
Persian and Persian dialects 58%, Turkic and Turkic dialects 26%, Kurdish 9%, Luri 2%, Balochi 1%, Arabic 1%, Turkish 1%, other 2%
Literacy:
definition: age 15 and over can read and write
total population: 72.1%
male: 78.4%
female: 65.8% (1994 est.)

your sources are wrong mate.
    


Look at all these ethnic groups in Iran, theyre all Trks.
Azeri Trkleri, Karapapaklar , Kaşkaylar , Trkmenler , Hamseler , Karapapalılar, Geymikler , Şahsevenler , Karadağlılar , Şatrunlu- Iar , Delikanlılar ,Beybağlılar , Bocağcılatlar , Halalar , Karaylar , Timurtaşlar ve Avşarlar

These ethnic groups form a group of 35.000.000, which is almost 50% of the population. Youre source is wrong, mate.
Back to Top
mamikon View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar

Joined: 16-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2200 		  Quote mamikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 10:31
I can see at most 27% Turkiic...unless you are assuming that everyone except Persians are Turkic?

moreover, where are your sources?


Edited by mamikon - 02-Oct-2006 at 10:37
Back to Top
omergun View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 24-Sep-2006
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 106 		  Quote omergun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 11:38
My general source is what i know. Here is another source: http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%B0ran_T%C3%BCrkleri
Back to Top
Arbr Z View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 26-May-2006
Location: Albania
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 598 		  Quote Arbr Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 12:06
Originally posted by akritas

 
Arber as I see again try to find Albanians in Greece , specially in an region that suffered a lot from the faschists Chams durinf the Nazis occupation. And I call them faschists because coloborated with the Nazis.Below is an official document from the C.M. Woodhouse that described simply the Cham issue.
The Chams were not popular either and in Albania as the British Liaison and known historian said.
I would like Arber  to open a thread regarding the issue to exchange atgyments as about the supposing Albanian minoity in Greece and the Chams issue and not to guide any thread  in an issue that recucling from the (your) Albanian side.
 
Now as about the thread the only billeteral Greeks that speak Albanian dialect are the Arvanites.
 
I reported this post to the moderators
Akritas is insulting and offending an entire community, that of the chams, greek citizens of albanian nationality. He calls them fascists, because they collaborated with the italians, and with this he justifies the expatriation, the discrimination, and the massacres agains this community, whose descendants are still seeking their right of property. Apparently in his view the Italians should be all exterminated, because they are "The Italians". Please, try to deal with issue, the statement of akritas, as well as many previous statements from this member, shows a strong feeling of hate against the albanians, especially those living in greece.
The Chams were not fascists, and if there was a collaboration, it was just the collaboration of the leaders, not of the entire population. And second, their descendants, they dont have any fault anyway, and should be free to go back to their home, and their property should be guaranteed.
Please, moderators, deal with this issue, I repeat it, Akritas is being insultive and offensive against many people, among them, the Albanian chams
Prej heshtjes...!
Back to Top
Yiannis View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar

Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2329 		  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 12:58
Originally posted by Arbλr Z

    
 
I reported this post to the moderators
Akritas is insulting and offending an entire community, that of the chams, greek citizens of albanian nationality. He calls them fascists, because they collaborated with the italians, and with this he justifies the expatriation, the discrimination, and the massacres agains this community, whose descendants are still seeking their right of property.
 
They were expelled because they cooperated with the Fascists, formed battalions to fight the Greek resistance and committed atrocities against the local population. The decision to deport them was supported by the Allies and was in line with similar decisions taken by other countries (deportations of German population from eastern Europe).
 
If you ask me if I agree to their deportation, I say that collective punishment is unjust, inhumane and horrible and insults me as a human being.
 
Still, this is not about my personal opinion but about the politics of the time.  Chams were collectively labeled as Fascists because of their actions and paid for this act when Axis was defeated - Vae Victis!
The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics

Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 6789>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.094 seconds.