Author |
Share Topic Topic Search Topic Options
|
arch.buff
Colonel
Joined: 18-Oct-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 606
|
Quote Reply
Topic: John Walker Lindh Posted: 01-Feb-2006 at 14:47 |
Ok, I think you guys all remember this fellow back in late 2001 early 2002. Do you feel that his imprisonment was justified? or do you feel other wise?
"I plead guilty," he said. "I provided my services as a soldier to the Taliban last year from about August to December. In the course of doing so, I carried a rifle and two grenades. I did so knowingly and willingly knowing that it was illegal."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Walker_Lindh
|
|
SearchAndDestroy
Caliph
Joined: 15-Aug-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2728
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-Feb-2006 at 15:10 |
He is a traitor of our country, I believe he should be imprisoned because he is a citizen and he did fight against us.
|
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
|
|
arch.buff
Colonel
Joined: 18-Oct-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 606
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-Feb-2006 at 15:16 |
He should be under intense probation for the remainder of his life after he is released from prison. Whats to say this lunatic wont fly back to Afghanistan and start jihading again?
Edited by arch.buff
|
|
Constantine XI
Suspended
Suspended
Joined: 01-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5711
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-Feb-2006 at 17:20 |
If he really wanted to become part of the Taliban he should have renounced US citizenship when he swore allegiance to the Taliban. Someone who holds US citizenship and fights for the other side may be rightly considered a traitor. Be renouncing US citizenship he would no longer be American and the US would no longer have any responsibility to subject him to their justice system or a program for rehabilitation. However, he is a US citizen and must be considered a traitor, he must be sentenced and (if deemed desirable) rehabilitated by US law.
|
|
arch.buff
Colonel
Joined: 18-Oct-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 606
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-Feb-2006 at 17:24 |
i guess he thoght he would never be caught? Strange, he doesnt exactly "fit in" even with a beard.
|
|
Constantine XI
Suspended
Suspended
Joined: 01-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5711
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-Feb-2006 at 18:57 |
Originally posted by arch.buff
i guess he thoght he would never be caught? Strange, he doesnt exactly "fit in" even with a beard. |
Probably should have worked on his tan a little more .
|
|
Genghis
Caliph
Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2656
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-Feb-2006 at 19:33 |
Kill him.
|
Member of IAEA
|
|
arch.buff
Colonel
Joined: 18-Oct-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 606
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-Feb-2006 at 19:41 |
nice add on Genghis. The funny thing about your post is I can tell you pretty much summed up everything you thought on the issue with those two words.
leave it to Genghis, always consistent though
|
|
ill_teknique
Colonel
Joined: 28-Jun-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 636
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 02:24 |
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy
He is a traitor of our country, I believe he
should be imprisoned because he is a citizen and he did fight against
us. |
I would've just exiled him.
|
|
gcle2003
King
Suspended
Joined: 06-Dec-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7035
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 07:47 |
Basically I go with Constantine on this. But it^s not too easy to renounce one's citizenship unilaterally.
William Joyce ('Lord Haw-Haw') claimed to be not a British subject when he was broadcasting for the Nazis, but he was nevertheless hanged for treason after the war.
|
|
Mortaza
Tsar
Joined: 21-Jul-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3711
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 08:13 |
kill him, isnt this punishment of traitors?
|
|
Paul
General
AE Immoderator
Joined: 21-Aug-2004
Location: Hyperborea
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 952
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 11:50 |
There's a lot of parallels here with the case of Thomas Paine who was treated very differently on his return to England after the AWI. Perhaps he should have been strung up the instant he returned.
|
|
|
flyingzone
Caliph
Joined: 11-Dec-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2630
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 23:45 |
Of course he's a traitor and should be punished accordingly.
While I was reading his brief biography, I could not but ask myself, "What drove him to make such bizarre decisions in his life?" (I am not defending his actions and I have no sympathy for him.) Sometimes in life, it just takes us a momentary decision to start digging a hole that, once dug, becomes deeper and deeper that it finally reaches a point of no return.
I am pretty sure quite a few of us have experienced moments in our lives when the boundary between sanity and insanity isn't that clear cut anymore. Thankfully, most of us won't cross over to the "other" side. But John Walker Lindh did.
He's only 25 years old, probably just about the same age as quite a lot of the forumers here.
|
|
Genghis
Caliph
Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2656
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 23:53 |
Originally posted by flyingzone
Of course he's a traitor and should be punished accordingly.
While I was reading his brief biography, I could not but ask myself, "What drove him to make such bizarre decisions in his life?" (I am not defending his actions and I have no sympathy for him.) Sometimes in life, it just takes us a momentary decision to start digging a hole that, once dug, becomes deeper and deeper that it finally reaches a point of no return.
I am pretty sure quite a few of us have experienced moments in our lives when the boundary between sanity and insanity isn't that clear cut anymore. Thankfully, most of us won't cross over to the "other" side. But John Walker Lindh did.
He's only 25 years old, probably just about the same age as quite a lot of the forumers here.
|
That's very true, and a very good question. I recall that he used to be a really hardcore partier and a big fan of gangster rap and stuff, but eventually rejected it and went to the opposite end of the spectrum by embracing puritanical Islam.
It would be interesting to read a psychoanalytical analysis of him.
|
Member of IAEA
|
|
Omar al Hashim
King
Suspended
Joined: 05-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5697
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 01:07 |
When your judging this guy I think two things should be remembered.
Firstly it is impossible to renouce american citizenship. I have some
diplomat friends whose mother is american. They never wanted american
citizenship and nver took it up, when their father got a posting to
america they tried to get visas for ameica, they were told that whether
they liked it or not they were american citizens becuase there mother
was born in america.
Secondly, America went from primary supporter to arch enemy of the
Taliban in less than a month. When he joined the taliban he was
supporting US foriegn policy and couldn't therefore be a traitor,
America then reversed its stance to the taliban and he may not have
even known about the american attack. Once he did it may not have been
possible to leave the armed forces of the taliban.
PS: Is that a picture of you Genghis or someone else?
Edited by Omar al Hashim
|
|
gcle2003
King
Suspended
Joined: 06-Dec-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7035
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 07:12 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
When your judging this guy I think two things should be remembered. Firstly it is impossible to renouce american citizenship. I have some diplomat friends whose mother is american. They never wanted american citizenship and nver took it up, when their father got a posting to america they tried to get visas for ameica, they were told that whether they liked it or not they were american citizens becuase there mother was born in america.
|
That's not quite true. If they were born outside America, they would be American citizens (like it or not) if
a) a parent was a US Citizen who had resided in America before the childs birth
AND (b) after the birth the baby was taken to a US consulate and a declaration of citizenship sworn out
AND (c) the child spent a certain amount of time living in the US before the age of 18 (I forget exactly how long).
As I understand it, if both parents were US citizens, then (c) is not required.
But I agree that once a citizen it's pretty impossible to opt out again.
There is more information that you would probably care to know about at
http://foia.state.gov/masterdocs/07fam/07m1130.pdf
(I'm fairly familiar with this because of my stepdaughter's situation, and my involvement with the expatriate US community here.)
|
|
flyingzone
Caliph
Joined: 11-Dec-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2630
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 09:04 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Secondly, America went from primary supporter to arch enemy of the Taliban in less than a month. When he joined the taliban he was supporting US foriegn policy and couldn't therefore be a traitor, America then reversed its stance to the taliban and he may not have even known about the american attack. Once he did it may not have been possible to leave the armed forces of the taliban.
|
That is a very interesting theory. But even so, the personal transformation from a hardcore partier to someone who embraces Islam in its most puritanical form is still "remarkable" in a very bizarre kind of way.
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
PS: Is that a picture of you Genghis or someone else?
|
Yes, that's Genghis, if I am not mistaken.
|
|
Genghis
Caliph
Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2656
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 11:34 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Secondly, America went from primary supporter to arch enemy of the Taliban in less than a month. When he joined the taliban he was supporting US foriegn policy and couldn't therefore be a traitor, America then reversed its stance to the taliban and he may not have even known about the american attack. Once he did it may not have been possible to leave the armed forces of the taliban.
PS: Is that a picture of you Genghis or someone else?
|
We had always had terrible relations with the Taliban, we had supported groups like the Taliban throughout Afghanistan but when the Soviets left and their puppet regime fell, the State Department basically washed their hands of Afghanistan.
Yes, that is a picture of me.
|
Member of IAEA
|
|
Omar al Hashim
King
Suspended
Joined: 05-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5697
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 19:12 |
Originally posted by Genghis
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Secondly, America went from primary supporter to arch enemy of the
Taliban in less than a month. When he joined the taliban he was
supporting US foriegn policy and couldn't therefore be a traitor,
America then reversed its stance to the taliban and he may not have
even known about the american attack. Once he did it may not have been
possible to leave the armed forces of the taliban.
|
We had always had terrible relations with the Taliban, we had supported
groups like the Taliban throughout Afghanistan but when the Soviets
left and their puppet regime fell, the State Department basically
washed their hands of Afghanistan.
|
No, America installed the Taliban in the mid '90s with Pakistani help.
The taliban until september 11 thereabouts, were propped up by america.
Which means the when John Walker Lindh joined the taliban he was supporting american foriegn policy and wasn't a tratior at all.
Originally posted by flyingzone
That is a very interesting theory. But even so, the personal
transformation from a hardcore partier to someone who embraces Islam in
its most puritanical form is still "remarkable" in a very bizarre kind
of way.
|
Actually its not bizarre at all. Its quite common. It shows a person
who is going to take whatever he does to an extreme. Before he was a
muslim he took parting to an extreme, and when he did become a muslim
he took not parting to an extreme.
|
|
Illuminati
General
Joined: 08-Dec-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 949
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 23:32 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Originally posted by Genghis
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Secondly, America went from primary supporter to arch enemy of the
Taliban in less than a month. When he joined the taliban he was
supporting US foriegn policy and couldn't therefore be a traitor,
America then reversed its stance to the taliban and he may not have
even known about the american attack. Once he did it may not have been
possible to leave the armed forces of the taliban.
|
We had always had terrible relations with the Taliban, we had supported
groups like the Taliban throughout Afghanistan but when the Soviets
left and their puppet regime fell, the State Department basically
washed their hands of Afghanistan.
|
No, America installed the Taliban in the mid '90s with Pakistani help.
The taliban until september 11 thereabouts, were propped up by america.
Which means the when John Walker Lindh joined the taliban he was supporting american foriegn policy and wasn't a tratior at all.
Originally posted by flyingzone
That is a very interesting theory. But even so, the personal
transformation from a hardcore partier to someone who embraces Islam in
its most puritanical form is still "remarkable" in a very bizarre kind
of way.
|
Actually its not bizarre at all. Its quite common. It shows a person
who is going to take whatever he does to an extreme. Before he was a
muslim he took parting to an extreme, and when he did become a muslim
he took not parting to an extreme.
|
That's pretty much all wrong. America was running missions agaisnt al qaeda in Taliban territory during teh 90's.
Clinton authorized a CIA mission to go in and nab Bin laden in 1998.
America wasn't supporting teh Taliban up until sept. 11th. The US
was allied with teh northern Alliance during the late 90's and up until
the taliban fell. The Northern alliance aided the CIA numerous times
before 9/11. America knew al qaeda was a threat after the failed 1993
WTC attack. If you think America was supporting the taliban past that
time while they were harboring al qaeda, you're really lost.
Edited by Illuminati
|
|