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Omar al Hashim
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Topic: John Walker Lindh Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 01:58 |
They want a pipeline so they can transport caspian sea oil through
Afghanistan and Pakistan so they don't have to rely on Russia or Iran.
Probably also to reduce the dependence on the middle east
They keep having problems but becuase Afghanistan is never stable
Edited by Omar al Hashim
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SearchAndDestroy
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Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 01:47 |
I didn't know there was a pipeline project, learn something new everyday.
But doesn't the US buy most of it's oil through OPEC in the middle east? How would this work exactly if the pipeline went through?
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 01:44 |
Yes, I would agree with most of that.
Pakistan supported the Taliban on US behalf.
Another reason for supporting the Taliban was so they could build that
pipeline america wants. They wanted to secure the country to make
it possible, but the taliban wasn't ever providing that much security.
I'm sure there are more reasons too.
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SearchAndDestroy
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Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 01:29 |
The only reason I could think the US government would support them is because another major faction was supported by the Russians and since Pakistan supported the other faction, the Taliban, the US probably gave money to support them.
Other then that I honestly believe the US government wiped their hands of them when they were sure the region was secure and the Russians didn't get their chosen faction in place, thus winning a small war so to speak. If they continued to support them, they were probably doing so to get their hands on Osama for the 1993 attack.
Other then that, their was no real strategic reason to support them. Well, as far as I could see anyways. I'm not sure if I gave the best reasoning, I'd like to think their was a good reason other then dumping money into countries for no apparent reason, example: Israel...
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 01:17 |
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy
The Ice Skating Institute supported tha Taliban? Those bastards! Whats the ISI? |
lol
ISI is the Pakistani Intelligence Agency.
Pakistan the UAE and Saudi Arabia are all governments that are very
close to the americans. Funding was passing though the Saudi's to the
Taliban, support throught Pakistan etc.
I have read strong evidence that convinced me of this point, but for the life of me just when I need it I can't find it again.
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SearchAndDestroy
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Posted: 04-Feb-2006 at 21:28 |
The Ice Skating Institute supported tha Taliban? Those bastards! Whats the ISI?
Only three countries recognized the Taliban, Pakistan, Unite Arab Emirates, and Saudi Arabia.
If the US did support them for whatever reason, it would have been because of Pakistan did since the US would prefer a Pakistan supported government rather then a Russian Northern Alliance supported faction. It was a civil war. Omar, the leader of the newly formed faction of the Taliban went to Pakistan in 1994 where they got training and weapons.
I wouldn't say anybody knew how the Taliban would turn out compared to all the other factions. And theres really no evidence of the US supporting the taliban at all. Just speculation.
Besides, we sent a Cruise Missle into Afghanistan in 1998 to destroy a Al Qaida terrorist camp. If we had any form of diplomatic relations with the Taliban, I doubt we would do that.
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 04-Feb-2006 at 03:25 |
Originally posted by Illuminati
America gave way for the taliban to take power becuase the taliban was rather anti-soviet.
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Maybe you didn't realise, I was talking about the Taliban. They didn't exist until 1995. They didn't fight the soviets at all.
The taliban were created by ISI and the CIA to stabilise Afghanistan, I
am not sure of why american wanted afghanistan stable but I am dead
certain of their involvement in supporting them.
There is one site. Hopefully I can find more.
http://us.altnews.com.au/nuke/print.php?sid=3586
The wtc attack in '93 was before the Taliban even existed.
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Illuminati
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Posted: 04-Feb-2006 at 02:43 |
America gave way for the taliban to take power becuase the taliban was rather anti-soviet. Everyone knows that. My point was that the US didn't keep on supporting the taliban like you claimed they did.
You hardly cared about "al-qaeda" or bin laden before sept 11. |
Clinton didn't order the CIA to kidnap Bin Laden in 1998 jsut for the hell of it. and I suppose that America just kept on not caring about bin laden even afer he tried to blow up the WTC in 1993. I have yet to see one reason why America would not care about al qaeda after 1993. The Communists were all but done for, and no other government could be worse than the taliban. What is the plus side to america continuing to support the taliban? And why would america not care about al qaeda after they tried to level the WTC? Your argument is illogical.
Edited by Illuminati
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 04-Feb-2006 at 01:10 |
How can you guys not know this? I thought it was common knowledge. America set the taliban up. The countries that had taliban embassies were Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and UAE, all governments with heavy american influence. America funded the taliban, you got them to destroy the poppy crop. American installed them. America used ISI to create the taliban. You hardly cared about "al-qaeda" or bin laden before sept 11.
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Illuminati
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Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 23:32 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Originally posted by Genghis
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Secondly, America went from primary supporter to arch enemy of the
Taliban in less than a month. When he joined the taliban he was
supporting US foriegn policy and couldn't therefore be a traitor,
America then reversed its stance to the taliban and he may not have
even known about the american attack. Once he did it may not have been
possible to leave the armed forces of the taliban.
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We had always had terrible relations with the Taliban, we had supported
groups like the Taliban throughout Afghanistan but when the Soviets
left and their puppet regime fell, the State Department basically
washed their hands of Afghanistan.
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No, America installed the Taliban in the mid '90s with Pakistani help.
The taliban until september 11 thereabouts, were propped up by america.
Which means the when John Walker Lindh joined the taliban he was supporting american foriegn policy and wasn't a tratior at all.
Originally posted by flyingzone
That is a very interesting theory. But even so, the personal
transformation from a hardcore partier to someone who embraces Islam in
its most puritanical form is still "remarkable" in a very bizarre kind
of way.
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Actually its not bizarre at all. Its quite common. It shows a person
who is going to take whatever he does to an extreme. Before he was a
muslim he took parting to an extreme, and when he did become a muslim
he took not parting to an extreme.
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That's pretty much all wrong. America was running missions agaisnt al qaeda in Taliban territory during teh 90's.
Clinton authorized a CIA mission to go in and nab Bin laden in 1998.
America wasn't supporting teh Taliban up until sept. 11th. The US
was allied with teh northern Alliance during the late 90's and up until
the taliban fell. The Northern alliance aided the CIA numerous times
before 9/11. America knew al qaeda was a threat after the failed 1993
WTC attack. If you think America was supporting the taliban past that
time while they were harboring al qaeda, you're really lost.
Edited by Illuminati
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 19:12 |
Originally posted by Genghis
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Secondly, America went from primary supporter to arch enemy of the
Taliban in less than a month. When he joined the taliban he was
supporting US foriegn policy and couldn't therefore be a traitor,
America then reversed its stance to the taliban and he may not have
even known about the american attack. Once he did it may not have been
possible to leave the armed forces of the taliban.
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We had always had terrible relations with the Taliban, we had supported
groups like the Taliban throughout Afghanistan but when the Soviets
left and their puppet regime fell, the State Department basically
washed their hands of Afghanistan.
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No, America installed the Taliban in the mid '90s with Pakistani help.
The taliban until september 11 thereabouts, were propped up by america.
Which means the when John Walker Lindh joined the taliban he was supporting american foriegn policy and wasn't a tratior at all.
Originally posted by flyingzone
That is a very interesting theory. But even so, the personal
transformation from a hardcore partier to someone who embraces Islam in
its most puritanical form is still "remarkable" in a very bizarre kind
of way.
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Actually its not bizarre at all. Its quite common. It shows a person
who is going to take whatever he does to an extreme. Before he was a
muslim he took parting to an extreme, and when he did become a muslim
he took not parting to an extreme.
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Genghis
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Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 11:34 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Secondly, America went from primary supporter to arch enemy of the Taliban in less than a month. When he joined the taliban he was supporting US foriegn policy and couldn't therefore be a traitor, America then reversed its stance to the taliban and he may not have even known about the american attack. Once he did it may not have been possible to leave the armed forces of the taliban.
PS: Is that a picture of you Genghis or someone else?
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We had always had terrible relations with the Taliban, we had supported groups like the Taliban throughout Afghanistan but when the Soviets left and their puppet regime fell, the State Department basically washed their hands of Afghanistan.
Yes, that is a picture of me.
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flyingzone
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Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 09:04 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Secondly, America went from primary supporter to arch enemy of the Taliban in less than a month. When he joined the taliban he was supporting US foriegn policy and couldn't therefore be a traitor, America then reversed its stance to the taliban and he may not have even known about the american attack. Once he did it may not have been possible to leave the armed forces of the taliban.
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That is a very interesting theory. But even so, the personal transformation from a hardcore partier to someone who embraces Islam in its most puritanical form is still "remarkable" in a very bizarre kind of way.
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
PS: Is that a picture of you Genghis or someone else?
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Yes, that's Genghis, if I am not mistaken.
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gcle2003
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Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 07:12 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
When your judging this guy I think two things should be remembered. Firstly it is impossible to renouce american citizenship. I have some diplomat friends whose mother is american. They never wanted american citizenship and nver took it up, when their father got a posting to america they tried to get visas for ameica, they were told that whether they liked it or not they were american citizens becuase there mother was born in america.
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That's not quite true. If they were born outside America, they would be American citizens (like it or not) if
a) a parent was a US Citizen who had resided in America before the childs birth
AND (b) after the birth the baby was taken to a US consulate and a declaration of citizenship sworn out
AND (c) the child spent a certain amount of time living in the US before the age of 18 (I forget exactly how long).
As I understand it, if both parents were US citizens, then (c) is not required.
But I agree that once a citizen it's pretty impossible to opt out again.
There is more information that you would probably care to know about at
http://foia.state.gov/masterdocs/07fam/07m1130.pdf
(I'm fairly familiar with this because of my stepdaughter's situation, and my involvement with the expatriate US community here.)
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 01:07 |
When your judging this guy I think two things should be remembered.
Firstly it is impossible to renouce american citizenship. I have some
diplomat friends whose mother is american. They never wanted american
citizenship and nver took it up, when their father got a posting to
america they tried to get visas for ameica, they were told that whether
they liked it or not they were american citizens becuase there mother
was born in america.
Secondly, America went from primary supporter to arch enemy of the
Taliban in less than a month. When he joined the taliban he was
supporting US foriegn policy and couldn't therefore be a traitor,
America then reversed its stance to the taliban and he may not have
even known about the american attack. Once he did it may not have been
possible to leave the armed forces of the taliban.
PS: Is that a picture of you Genghis or someone else?
Edited by Omar al Hashim
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Genghis
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Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 23:53 |
Originally posted by flyingzone
Of course he's a traitor and should be punished accordingly.
While I was reading his brief biography, I could not but ask myself, "What drove him to make such bizarre decisions in his life?" (I am not defending his actions and I have no sympathy for him.) Sometimes in life, it just takes us a momentary decision to start digging a hole that, once dug, becomes deeper and deeper that it finally reaches a point of no return.
I am pretty sure quite a few of us have experienced moments in our lives when the boundary between sanity and insanity isn't that clear cut anymore. Thankfully, most of us won't cross over to the "other" side. But John Walker Lindh did.
He's only 25 years old, probably just about the same age as quite a lot of the forumers here.
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That's very true, and a very good question. I recall that he used to be a really hardcore partier and a big fan of gangster rap and stuff, but eventually rejected it and went to the opposite end of the spectrum by embracing puritanical Islam.
It would be interesting to read a psychoanalytical analysis of him.
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flyingzone
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Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 23:45 |
Of course he's a traitor and should be punished accordingly.
While I was reading his brief biography, I could not but ask myself, "What drove him to make such bizarre decisions in his life?" (I am not defending his actions and I have no sympathy for him.) Sometimes in life, it just takes us a momentary decision to start digging a hole that, once dug, becomes deeper and deeper that it finally reaches a point of no return.
I am pretty sure quite a few of us have experienced moments in our lives when the boundary between sanity and insanity isn't that clear cut anymore. Thankfully, most of us won't cross over to the "other" side. But John Walker Lindh did.
He's only 25 years old, probably just about the same age as quite a lot of the forumers here.
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Paul
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Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 11:50 |
There's a lot of parallels here with the case of Thomas Paine who was treated very differently on his return to England after the AWI. Perhaps he should have been strung up the instant he returned.
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Mortaza
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Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 08:13 |
kill him, isnt this punishment of traitors?
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gcle2003
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Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 07:47 |
Basically I go with Constantine on this. But it^s not too easy to renounce one's citizenship unilaterally.
William Joyce ('Lord Haw-Haw') claimed to be not a British subject when he was broadcasting for the Nazis, but he was nevertheless hanged for treason after the war.
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