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Notable Battles of Medieval Hungarians

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  Quote Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Notable Battles of Medieval Hungarians
    Posted: 01-Feb-2006 at 07:19

 

Well, I am planing to post descriptions of some interesting or important battle from Hungarian history. These may be the battles of Brenta, Lechfeld, Zemun, Mohi, Marchfeld (Drnkrut), Rozhanovce (Rozgony), one battle in the campaign against Naples, Nicopolis, Varna, Belgrad, Wroclaw(Breslau), Kenyrmez and Mohcs. I hope these will concern you.

 

The battle of Brenta

 

In 895 the Magyar tribal federation launched the invasion of the Carpathian Basin and conquested its eastern half. From this time various tribal leaders organized campaigns to the west. The fist major campaign was in 899 when emperor Arnulf hired the Magyars as mercenaries against his rival Berengar the king of Italy.

The Magyar army of 5000 cavalrymen was splitted to numereous groups and pillaged the Po Valley in its way to Pavia where they united againg. One of these groups unsuccesfully sieged Venice. To counter this threat Berengar amassed an army of 15 000 men. The Magyars pull back to east pretended to fear the Italian army. Their leaders even asked for peace and free passing to Hungary. Berengars troop successfully fought against the rearguard of the Magyar army and drive them to the other cost of river Brenta. Now the Magyar messengers sleekly asked him only to keep their horses in return his mercy. So Berengar thought he was in winning position and became overweening. The Italian kinghts leisurely camped for the night, pull off their armor and started to eat supper.

In this time the main forces of the Magyars attack through the river and simultaneously hidden Magyar troops attacked from the left and right side of the camp. These troop was hidden during the fightings with the main armys rearguard. All in all the Hungarians completely surprised and encompassed Berengars army. According to Liutprand of Cremona the Magyars attacked so suddenly that some of the Italian soldiers died with food pinned on their throat. The Italian army was annihilated and the Magyars remain in Italy till the autumn of 900.  Since the Magyar ally, emperor Arnulf died in December 8. 899 The Magyars captured his province, Pannonia (territories west to the Danube) during homecoming. With these events the conquest of Hungary was complete.

Hungarian warriors reconstructed and painted by Gyula Lszl:



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  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2006 at 07:56

Raider on that red flag, is there a half moon sticked on it?

Btw i assume those yellow "balls" on the green flags are resembling the sun, then it is typical to central asian nomadic warriors.

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  Quote Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2006 at 08:01
Well, Lszl was a noted archeologist (and amateur painter), so I think the picture is quite reliable.
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  Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 03:05
Can u inform me about hunyadi
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  Quote Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 06:34

Originally posted by BigL

Can u inform me about hunyadi
Well, I am planning to insert some of his battles (Varna, Belgrade). What do you want to know about him?

 

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  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 06:54
Originally posted by Raider

Originally posted by BigL

Can u inform me about hunyadi
Well, I am planning to insert some of his battles (Varna, Belgrade). What do you want to know about him?

 

I have problems with who he really whas, a Hungarian (thats what i think) or Romanian (thats what some romanians think of).
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  Quote Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 07:24
Originally posted by DayI

Originally posted by Raider

Originally posted by BigL

Can u inform me about hunyadi
Well, I am planning to insert some of his battles (Varna, Belgrade). What do you want to know about him?

 

I have problems with who he really whas, a Hungarian (thats what i think) or Romanian (thats what some romanians think of).
Well, It's a difficult question. He was a real christian hero not only among the Romanian and Hungarians, but Serbs etc. also.

The Hunyadi family originated from Wallachia. The name Hunyadi means of Hunyad in Hungarian. The family got this name after Hunyadi's father migrated to Transylvania and received the Castle Hunyad from the king.

Some Hungarian historians presumed that the family had a Cuman origin, because of their names (Vajk, Serbe etc.) But most of the historians rejected this because only the origin of their names is not enough to prove the origin of the family. By the way Cumans in the XV. century were fully assimilated to the Romanians. So I think we could say that Hunyadi's father was a Romanian.

The father of Hunyadi, Vajk (hung.) or Voicu (rom.) married a Hungarian woman and presumably convert to the catholic faith. Being a catholic was necessary to became a nobleman in Hungary and this weas usually the first step of assimilation to the Hungarians.

So John Hunyadi was a catholic nobleman of Hungary whose father was a Romanian and mother was a Hungarian. I do not know his personal ties or his mother tongue.

All in all I think both Romanians and Hungarians could rightfully consider him as theirs.

 



Edited by Raider - 13-Dec-2006 at 06:13
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  Quote Socrates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 07:34
In serbian epics he is refered as Sibinjanin Janko.He was remembered as a hero.Who are Cumans?
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  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 07:37

Cuman or Magyar?

I think one of our proverb is coming true...

"Bklmeyen Trk'n bilegini bkerse yine Trk bker"

Simply translated; "Only a Turk can win of a Turk"

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  Quote Socrates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 08:00
Originally posted by DayI

Cuman or Magyar?

I think one of our proverb is coming true...

"Bklmeyen Trk'n bilegini bkerse yine Trk bker"

Simply translated; "Only a Turk can win of a Turk"

I don't understand.Who r Cumans?"Only a Turk can win of a Turk"-what do u mean by this?

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  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 08:10
Never mind.
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  Quote Socrates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 08:13
OK.
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  Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 23:26
Ok lets talk about the battles Hunyadi fought
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  Quote majkes1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2006 at 10:00
Wich battle is consider by Hingarians as their greates victory?
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  Quote NikeBG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Feb-2006 at 04:47
Originally posted by Socrates

Who are Cumans?

The Cumans are one big ethnos from around the 12-13 centuries, which lived to the north of the Danube and were a considerable factor at their time. There are also reports that they have been used quite often in the Bulgarian army, especially by Tsar Kaloian against the Crusaders from the 4th Crusade. But with the coming of the Tartars they were further pushed out of their homes and were soon assimilated. I think there are reports of them moving to Bulgaria and I've heard even some doubts of the modern day "Gagauzi" to be actually Cuman descendants. Also there are some villages in Buglaria called Kumanovo and I think there's even one in Macedonia (which btw would be interesting if they've reached even there).

On-topic: I also would like to hear more about the Hungarian battles, especially the Varna one (from 1444, right?), due to obvious reasons. Actually, I always love to read about any battle, so just keep posting!
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  Quote Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Feb-2006 at 08:34

AD 955 The battle of Lechfeld (the second battle of Augsburg):

 

Background:

 

Aftr the Battle of Brenta and the Conquest of Hungary the Magyar tribes launched various campaigns against Western Europe and Byzantium. AD 899-970 (see map1)>

 

In 953 civil war erupted in Germany. Luitdolf the son of king Otto and Conrad the son-in-law of Otto rebelled against the future emperor. The rebels asked for the help of the Magyars and a Magyar army attacked Bavaria in 954. The campaign was huge financial success for the Hungarians and one year later an other army tried to repeat it.

 

A Hungarian encampment was established on the Eastern bank of river Lech and several raiding party set out for looting the neighboring countryside. The Magyars also sieged Augsburg defended by bishop Udalrick/Ulrich. The Magyar army was consisted 6-8000 men and was led by Bulcs, Ll and Sr.

 

In August 8th 955 Berchtold, the Lord of Risinesburg arrived to the Magyar camp and warned the Hungarian leaders for the coming of Ottos army of 3500 men. Bulcs raised the sieged and the leaders made a battle plan based on the events of 910, when the Magyars destroyed the army of Louis the Child on Lechfeld (first battle of Augsburg).

 

The battle:

 

 >>

According to the plan the Magyar army was divided into two parts. The smaller part should have attacked the enemy, weaken them with arrows and lured the disordered Germans to the place where the hidden main army waited for the attack. However this plan was failed.

 

In August 9th 955 the sun set at 19:36 and it was totally dark on 20:00 because the moon rised only at 21:03. Exploiting the darkness the Magyar army crossed the Lech and the bait-contingent (cca. 2000-2500 men) sepparated and departed to attack the German camp. At the same time count Dietpald left Augsburg with cca. 500 men to join king Otto. Both of them had approximately 6 hours to take his place.

 

Otto had ordered his men to left the camp at early dawn before sunrise and before the Magyar bait-contingent arrived. Presumably he wanted to surprise the Magyars and chose a rough hilly terrain coverd by forrest. (See map2). Otto divided his troops into 8 legion andthese legion left the camp in column. Each legion followed the one before him in hearing range. The first legion consisted Bavarians led by Henry Liudolfing, king Otto followed him with the Saxons, then Conrad the Red of Franconia and at the end the Suabian legions led by duke Burchard. A contingent of 1000 Bohemian soldiers left behind to guard the camp with the impedimenta.

 

When the Magyar bait arrived the Bavarians were 2 km away from the camp and they did not noticed the Magyar attack. With their sudden attack the Magyars easily crushed the Bohemians and they repelled the Suabians who were close enough to the camp. They were likely surprised by the success (Remember their original task was to lure the Germans to the main forces.) But in stead of worrying they started to plunder the camp and presumably they sent a messeger to the main army. (cca. 6:00 am)

 

While they gathered the loot the fleeing Bohemians and Suabians catched duke Conrads franconian knights up. Red Conrad returned to the camp surprised and defeated the looting Magyars. (cca. 7:00 am) Conrad left a strong guard in the camp and joined king Otto who decided to continue his plan.

 

Meanwhile Bulcs in the main army got the message that the German camp was captured and decided to return his camp. It began to rain and the Magyars had to take away their bows to protect them from water. ( cca. 8:00 am) In these moments the Bavarians arrived from the forrest with the Saxon and Franconian troops behind and charged the Magyars. There was no time to bring out the bows there was no place to manoeuvre they were also unable to retreat because of the swampy Schmutter  creek. In the melee the Germans heavy cavalry was unquestionably superior and crushed the surprised Magyar army.

 

In the battle Conrad the Red died (he was the same Conrad who was allied himself withe the Magyars one year before.) and the three Magyar leader was captured.

 

The aftermath:

 

It is widely beleived that this battle crushed Magyar military power and ended the Magyar attacks. However this is an exageration of the events.

 

This attack was a financial enterprise of Bulcs, Ll and Sr, so the army was only a part of the whole manpower of Hungary. On the other hand the battle showed that with the newly organized border system the uniting Germany were able to defend herself. The attacks to the west stopped, but continued to the South. The last attack was in 970 when a Hungarian-Petcheneg-Kievian alliance were crushed by Byzantium.

 

The battle also had an important role in the creation of the Holy Roman Empire and the unification of Hungary. Otto used this victory as a propaganda to increase his fame and political a power. The rpds of Hungary seized control of defeated tribes territory laying down the fundament of a unified Hungary.

 

The defeat at Lexchfeld was also very shocking. Before it the Hungarian chiefs were treated as equals, but now king Otto simply hanged the captured chieftains instead of demanding a ransom as a civilized man. Hungarian chronicles tried to compensate this by inventing a second battle  in which the Hungarians won.  The Ll legend birthed that the captured chief Ll killed emperor Conrd with his blow.  (Conrad the Red was confused with Otto.)

 

 

All in all this is a very important battle in European history.

The description of the battle based on the essay of Lajos Ngyesi: Az augsburgi csata in Hadtrtneti Kzlemnyek 1/2003. http://epa.oszk.hu/00000/00018/00023/17.htm



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  Quote Evrenosgazi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Feb-2006 at 09:31

  

       Hungarians must be proud for their millitary history. Because they were a vast, powerful medieval kingdom , and the most important part is their fight against the turks. After the battle of kosovo the only standing major power was the hungarians. for 137 year they fought with bravery . They win and lost battles.  Their origins was similar with the ottomans, maybe by this they could stop the ottomans.  I think the most important battles are varna, belgrade(1456) and Mohacs. Varna was a missed price, belgrade was a success and mohacs was the unstoppable end. Regards to all hungarian friends 

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  Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Feb-2006 at 00:46
When Medieval total war 2 comes out in december i will definately favour the Hungarians, Why there disciplined knights were more effective than undiciplined western knights and there use of light cavalry of tartar origin gives a good balance to their army only army i will fear is the Turks who have similiar armies but no Full plate cast iron armour.
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  Quote Richard XIII Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Feb-2006 at 07:32
Originally posted by Raider

So John Hunyadi was a catholic nobleman of Hungary whose father was a Romanian and mother was a Hungarian.



Correct, at least for me, in our history (the serious ones) books that is the version presented.
"I want to know God's thoughts...
...the rest are details."

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  Quote Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Feb-2006 at 09:11
Originally posted by Evrenosgazi

  

       Hungarians must be proud for their millitary history. Because they were a vast, powerful medieval kingdom , and the most important part is their fight against the turks. After the battle of kosovo the only standing major power was the hungarians. for 137 year they fought with bravery . They win and lost battles.  Their origins was similar with the ottomans, maybe by this they could stop the ottomans.  I think the most important battles are varna, belgrade(1456) and Mohacs. Varna was a missed price, belgrade was a success and mohacs was the unstoppable end. Regards to all hungarian friends 

1. I think Nicopolis was also very important. Though it was an international crusade it was organized by Sigismund the Hungarian king.

2. By the time the Ottoman wars began the traditional light cavalry units of the Hungarian army [Cumans, Seklers, Saracens-> In the rpd age notable muslim community lived in Hungary.] were nearly completely assimilated and lost their former skills. In my view the ottoman wars revived this traditions.

 

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