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Topic ClosedTurks in Bulgaria (Flame-War Warning)
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Digenis View Drop Down
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    Posted: 23-May-2006 at 08:00
I waited ..for a respond from u...
Except ,u think "really?" is a decent post.
I cant go on on a serious conversation,in which the other part ,when is in the corner,shuts his mouth,
or changes subject.


Edited by Digenis - 23-May-2006 at 08:01
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Posts: 2347 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2006 at 08:04
Originally posted by Digenis

I waited ..for a respond from u...
Except ,u think "really?" is a decent post.
I cant go on on a serious conversation,in which the other part ,when is in the corner,shuts his mouth,
or changes subject.
 
 
What kind of response do you want to your previous message in which you can kind of implied I am a low-life Turk stealing the land of my Bulgarian neighbours and who should be greatful to be in Europe instead of Asia?
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Posts: 694 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2006 at 08:07
You considered Bulgaria as the homeland of  the Turks,and u blamed Bulgarians for the independence of their country(!) Confused






Edited by Digenis - 23-May-2006 at 08:08
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Posts: 2347 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2006 at 08:17
Originally posted by Digenis

You considered Bulgaria as the homeland of  the Turks,and u blamed Bulgarians for the independence of their country(!) Confused

 
Bulgaria is definitely the homeland of the Turks who are born there and who have lived there, and it is not the country of Bulgarians only, it is the country of all the people who live on her territories - including the Turks.  Bulgaria is our common shared country.
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Posts: 694 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2006 at 08:25
Originally posted by bg_turk

But taking our land and our libtery is.


Don't make me lessons of human rights my dear Bg_Turk.

You accused Bulgaria for occupying "your" land.

Will u try to deny it now?
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Posts: 2800 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2006 at 08:33

Bulldog
The Turkish Expansion into the Balkans, you guy's are refering to the Turkic Bulgars who later were occupied by Slav expansion who were later defeated by your Turkic cousin's second expansion right? Big smile

 
 Chargemaster
Actually - not. The thread is about the "cousins"(according to you), who are living in Bulgaria.
 
Your making no sense, if you can find a flaw my statement go ahead.   If you really wanted to cut away from your past why keep the name "Bulgar" "Bulgarian" "Balkans" its ironic that you are a Bulgarian Nationalist and at the same time hate the actual nation that gave you the name to which your Nationalism aspires.

 
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Posts: 1066 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2006 at 09:50
Originally posted by Bulldog

Your making no sense, if you can find a flaw my statement go ahead.   If you really wanted to cut away from your past why keep the name "Bulgar" "Bulgarian" "Balkans" its ironic that you are a Bulgarian Nationalist and at the same time hate the actual nation that gave you the name to which your Nationalism aspires.
 
I hate you?  An interesting news...  Are you sure?
 
Oh, my dear great "cousin", leave my slavic and thracian identity to breathe free. And keep your opinion about me, no problem.
 
Just don`t make me a turk, please, because this agitation will not succeed, be sure.
 


Edited by The Chargemaster - 24-May-2006 at 15:15
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Posts: 2800 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2006 at 10:14
I don't understand why your getting all in a huff and a puff, the word Bulgar and Bularian stems from your Turkic cousins, if you hate it so much why call yourself a Bulgarian? the roots of the identity are Turkic, this Bulgar entity occupied the area, later so did the Slavic entity, later the Turkic entity returned again.
 
Your narrow view-point is self-destructive, you have the opportunity to be inclusive and embracing with regards to your nationalism but choose to be isolatory making a million people in your country feel excluded just because you'd rather accept a part of your heritage which stems from Slavic culture and reject another part of your heritage which stems from the Turkic initial migrations and reason why you today are in Bulgaria as Bulgarians.
 
 
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Posts: 1066 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2006 at 11:31
Originally posted by Bulldog

if you hate it so much
 
Please, prove that i hate somebody.
 
later the Turkic entity returned again.
 
Well, this is very very wrong. Read more about the bulgarian history.
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Posts: 370 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-May-2006 at 04:22
Well, the proto-Bulgarians were a turkic tribe indeed, asians in general like Huns,  Finno-Ugrians etc. But after their slavization they are pure slavs.
 
A Turk who was born in Bulgaria, considers Bulgaria to be his homeland. It happens for everyone in every country.
 
The mistake that Turks make here very often is that when we say that a tribe was turkic, we don't mean that it was a tribe of Turks.
 
Turkic peoples are Northern and Central Eurasian peoples who speak languages belonging to the Turkic family, and who, in varying degrees, share certain cultural and historical traits. The term "Turkic" is generally considered to represent a broad linguistic characterization, and not necessarily an ethnic one. "Turkish" on the other hand, is considered to represent more specifically the denizens of the nation of Turkey. The Turkic languages are a subdivision of the Altaic language group.
 
So don't confuse the terms "Turkish" and "Turkic". Turkic is something like Indo-europeans.


Edited by dorian - 24-May-2006 at 04:26
"We are Macedonians but we are Slav Macedonians.That's who we are!We have no connection to Alexander the Greek and his Macedonia�Our ancestors came here in the 5th and 6th century" Kiro Gligorov FYROM
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Posts: 120 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-May-2006 at 06:58
Originally posted by dorian

A Turk who was born in Bulgaria, considers Bulgaria to be his homeland. It happens for everyone in every country.
 
 That's true.
 
 But he doesn't have the right to demand indipentance or claim that those lands belong to an other country. Just because a village may have more turks than Bulgarians doesn't mean that the land belong to turkey. Those Lands are belong to Bulgaria even if there are a billion of Chinies.....
 
 Lands, borders and country territories are confirmed by international laws and must be respected.


Edited by BlindOne - 24-May-2006 at 06:58
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Posts: 2800 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-May-2006 at 11:20
Sorry but the description of "Turkic" people's above is the most far-fethced description I've heard to this date.
 
Its good that you admit the original Bulgars were "Turkic".
 
This further proves my point.
 
Original Bulgars were Turkic, they got slavicised and later the original Bulgar's Turkic cousins came again so they do wether we wanna accept it or not have a distant bond.
 
"Turkic" refers to Turks, Turkish refers to a citizen of Turkey, so you can be a Turk from Bulgaria or Azerbaijan or Turkmenistan etc your just as much a Turk as a Turk from Turkey with a common language, identity, cultural and historical similarities etc the key ingrediants for a nation.
 
The point is, Bulgaria has the chance to become a solid unified and self-reliant state depending on its polliticians.
 
They don't have to reject the Turkic part of their heritage and they don't have to reject the Slavic part, being extreme and isolating one in regards to the other doesn't help Bulgaria, being all-inclusive and promoting all areas of the heritage of the people would benefit the country.
 
If your too narrow minded and follow isolatory Nationalism and not an embracing form than you'll never get this because your stuck and too stubborn to accept a reality which for a long time was hated.


Edited by Bulldog - 24-May-2006 at 11:21
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Posts: 694 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-May-2006 at 11:59
@Bulldog
Ok ...u will convince Bulgarians to ride on their horses and run armed with their bows...LOL

Accusing again and again for nationalism,even the moderate Bulgarians,because they dont care at all for your pan-turanist dreams is at least baseless.
Face the reality.

Can u provide  the turcic elements in Bulgarian culture plz?

@Bg_Turk
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Edited by Digenis - 24-May-2006 at 12:00
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Posts: 2800 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-May-2006 at 12:16
What does this have to do with Pan-Turanism? that's just a figment of your imagination and paranoia speaking, you'd rather ignore the issues and hide behind words how very mature.
 
Nationalism in the sense of - loving your nation, all its people and working to benefit it is fine but Nationalism in the sense loving a section of the nation, excluding others and being isolatory by denying a large minority and making them feel different and less a part of the nation is self-destructive.
 
That's all, if you can't see the logic in my last post and open your mind that's your problem.
 
From where I'm sitting in an objective position being neither Bulgarian or Turk alot of the views made by the Bulgarian's here who only accept the Slavic part of their identity have some pretty self-destructive views.
 
If suggesting the advantages of being pro-embracing is a crime and makes you a Nationalist or any other terms you use it just shows the level of immaturity in regards to this topic.
 
Regards
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Posts: 1066 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-May-2006 at 13:07
Originally posted by Bulldog

What does this have to do with Pan-Turanism? that's just a figment of your imagination and paranoia speaking, you'd rather ignore the issues and hide behind words how very mature.


Paranoia speaking? Your speaking is paranoic, dear.
 
From where I'm sitting in an objective position being neither Bulgarian or Turk alot of the views made by the Bulgarian's here who only accept the Slavic part of their identity have some pretty self-destructive views.


Your favorite proto-bulgarians were like a drop in the slavic ocean,

when they has coming in the Balkans in the second half of VII century!



And because of that, for you is better to forget the dream about my "turkic" identity.



Edited by The Chargemaster - 24-May-2006 at 15:10
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Posts: 2800 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-May-2006 at 13:12

I blame the education system and parents LOL

Its like talking to a brick wall, you fail to understand the point being made.


Edited by Bulldog - 24-May-2006 at 13:13
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Posts: 3711 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-May-2006 at 13:16
Bulgarian nationalist greeksConfused
 
Anyway this is stupity, Turks at bulgaria is citizen of bulgaria, so they are also owner of bulgaria too, and this has no relation with Turkey.
 
I am sure noone will object this.
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Posts: 694 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-May-2006 at 15:05
Originally posted by Bulldog

What does this have to do with Pan-Turanism? that's just a figment of your imagination and paranoia speaking, you'd rather ignore the issues and hide behind words how very mature.


Your desperate try to "weak up" 2006 Bulgarians ,in order to realise their turcic identity,is pure pan-turanism.And it is really paranoic.


That's all, if you can't see the logic in my last post and open your mind that's your problem.


Plz ,keep insulting away.If consider yourself  open-minded ,you dont have  to yell it so loud .


 
From where I'm sitting in an objective position being neither Bulgarian or Turk alot of the views made by the Bulgarian's here who only accept the Slavic part of their identity have some pretty self-destructive views.


Once more...
can u provide me the turcic elements in Bulgarian's culture plz?

If u cant ,it s obvious you really have no idea about Bulgarian culture....your only interest about them is to "awaken their turcic identity"...
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Posts: 27 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-May-2006 at 16:15
When we are speaking for a nation  we mean the strong  
culture element that make them different from the other nations.
When In the late 7th century a branch of the  Bulgars led by Khan Asparuh migrated into the northern Balkans, where they merged with the local Slavic population and they create Bulgaria gender.
That means the modern name of Bulgaria dont identify only the first
Bulgarians that came in 7th century from tha central Asia
but the strong culture that was created and survived through the centuries till our days.Many tribes used to exist but very few survived till our days and usually only the tribes that had strong culture.
To say in our days that modern Bulgarians are some part turcic tribes
is unscientific .
I ll tell one more example The United States of America , Founded in 1776 and  its a new nation. Almost all the emigrants that emigranted  to US they americanized very fast , this happen because they have world wide strong culture. 
If you ask A greek-american 2nd generation whats his nationality
he gona say that i m pure American.Should we have to blame him because
he accept the american culture or we gonna say that USA is full of different
nationalities , but them self they feel proud to be American.
Anyway dont exist <<clean>> nations but only strong cultures that keep the nations united.
Now if we want to say unscientific  Theories like Sun Language Theory 
to create one more theory. 
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Posts: 2408 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-May-2006 at 17:23
Oh comon Greek fellas, its like the todays "macedonians" think they are the descentans of the old macedonians (alexander the great for example), but the funny thing is like by the macedonians taht "some" bulgarians claim or actually forgot that the original Bulgars or Macedonians arent todays Bulgars or Macedonians.

They dont understand the good old Macedonians/Bulgars (written) language, names (how many Bulgars are there with the name Bagadyr, asparukh, kubrat, arpad?), etc...

 
Bu mıntıka'nın Dayı'sı
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