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What if Christianity

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TMPikachu View Drop Down
Pretorian
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  Quote TMPikachu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What if Christianity
    Posted: 12-Oct-2004 at 14:54

... Didn't take root in the last legs of the Roman Empire?

The splintered dark age 'countries' of Europe would have no unifying religion, or perhaps they would pray to the Roman Pantheon?
Mayhaps without the Christian zeal of rooting out dissent and opposition, could aboriginal European religion have flourished?

I think the biggest thing to take not here is that the Europeans MIGHT not have a unifying religion. Maybe the Roman Pantheon becomes the unifying religion, maybe regional beliefs will be taken to heart.

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  Quote Abyssmal Fiend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Oct-2004 at 15:49

It probably would have been easier for the Turks to overrun Hungary, Ethiopia would have been doomed, France likely wouldn't have been able to win Tours... We'd (Europeans) be Muslim...


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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Oct-2004 at 16:58
well, perhaps another thing would rise in its place.  Certainly the outer parts of Europe would be lost to Muslims, but maybe the attacks of those Muslims or the absense of a strong monotheism would spurr some other prophet to appear in the forests of Germany or Paris...Theres never a lack of kooks caliming to be messengers from god, and without the church there to supress it maybe one of them woul dmake a new 100% European religion.
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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Oct-2004 at 18:07

This is what I feel would have happened.

Instead of the image of the Chi-Ro Constantine sees the glorious sign of the sun god Apollo-Sol. He proclaims his victory in the name of his patron god. However he still makes his Edict of Milan due to the love of his mother who is a devout christian. Worship days do not change to sunday though, as Constantine's temples to Apollo-Sol have service on that day. Julian the apostate still takes control, but he nearly destroys all christians who find an unlikely ally in pagans who dislike Julian's style of theurgist worship. This alliance of christians and pagans is defended by Jovian who himself is a christian. Following him is the emperor Valentinian, who in this era is not a christian but a mithraist. However he permits ultimate religious freedom and this is carried on for a long time.

The persians do not know what to do with the christians in their borders, hardly on the side of the romans they are mostly ignored, and the cult of the christians expands throughout persia. Maybe even becoming the state religion.

Schisms take place in the early church as there is no uniting force for all christianity. The nearest thing to order are the barbarian tribes who adopt the most missionary of the faiths arianism, after arius' expulsion from Constantinople (which became the capitol city of Nova Roma during Constantine's time). Some of these tribes would later be involved with the empire namely the Visigoth's and the Frank's.

Islam still would have become a dominant religion but not in the same way. It would be a weaker form, because the roman empire would have been far more united and able to repel them. Also the persians would have been able to hold them off. However the raids would have probably captured the weakened provinces of mesopotamia after the perso-roman wars of the 500's. Also Islam would have spread into africa via the horn. All in all though I don't believe it would have been able to break out as it did. The germans after being conquered by Charlemagne would have submitted to arian christianity, the roman allies would protest to this but Charlemagne would probably just annhilate the western empire. Who the east had all but forgot.

Any comments on this scenario, I want to expand but I want to make sure everything sounds good so far.

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  Quote TMPikachu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2004 at 13:58

Hmmm, so Christianity invades reguardless, in your scenario?

I think it would be an interesting world if modern Europe still had its native beliefs.

English food may or may not still be slop, who knows.

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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2004 at 15:40
Are you obsessed with English food or something?
Arrrgh!!"
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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2004 at 16:09
well it is crap, the only exception ebing when its purely Indian in nature.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2004 at 16:14
I are 'real English food' only once. On the plane to London.

Surprisingly enough it wasn't that bad. I even liked it.
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  Quote Dawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2004 at 16:23

Old joke;

Why did Britain build an Empire?

Answer: they couldn't get a decant meal at home

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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2004 at 16:31
Originally posted by Tobodai

well it is crap, the only exception ebing when its purely Indian in nature.


Which is rare in the UK as its all been anglicised.

But i bet you all havn't been to a proper carvery or tried noveau cusine or anything, just rely on stale stereotypes.
Arrrgh!!"
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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2004 at 17:34

I like brownies!  They R good! 

I learned that Christianity helped the Feudal age society form.  Also helped cities flourish, by teaching the peasants how to farm, cut down trees from farms, etc.  Also encouraged ppl. 

If they didn't survive Roman Age, I guess it was replaced with Islam or develop really slowly

Grrr..
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2004 at 18:10
and what has christianity to do with English food?
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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2004 at 19:12
My point exactly.
Arrrgh!!"
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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2004 at 20:44

Hmmm, so Christianity invades reguardless, in your scenario?

I think it would be an interesting world if modern Europe still had its native beliefs.

Only in the undeveloped west would the barbaric arian christianity flourish. In the enlightened east a myriad of different faiths would be found in a strong civilized Byzantine empire.

Although I do believe the message of one god, one king, one people is very good for uniting an empire. The vikings probably would've remained pagan since it suited their form of government (although they probably wouldn't have been as united and strong).

The celtic church would have been strong in ireland, scotland and wales with england and northern scotland adopting a hybridized nordic-christian pantheon.

I don't know if it's just my bias, but I think historically christianity was a very good powerbase for the new empires, since the new kings could cut themselves from the old pagan nobility and make themselves more important.

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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2004 at 00:05
true its likely, but without the original exact faith it might have turned out very differnt looking than it does today...
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I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2004 at 14:53
Originally posted by JanusRook

Although I do believe the message of one god, one king, one people is very good for uniting an empire.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2004 at 15:42
and what about this one:
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  Quote TMPikachu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2004 at 19:17

Oye, must we drag in politics?

I just like the idea of thinkin' bout going to Europe and seeing still-running temples to Odin and Zeus and Brits with long hair running around with sickles.

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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2004 at 19:32

Actually Temujin I thought of that from the Triumph of the Will when I wrote it.

Do you disagree in its great uniting message though?

I just like the idea of thinkin' bout going to Europe and seeing still-running temples to Odin and Zeus and Brits with long hair running around with sickles.

The only way you could have a complete absence of Christianity would be if Jesus did not exist.

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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Oct-2004 at 16:59
Originally posted by JanusRook

Actually Temujin I thought of that from the Triumph of the Will when I wrote it.

Do you disagree in its great uniting message though?

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I didn't knew of this movie/documentary/whatever before you mentioned it here...



Edited by Temujin
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