Talaat Pasha

Well, that person has an effective mark on Turkish history as the Grand Vizier of the empire, that is a fact nobody can deny, of course...But, in any part of Turkey, anyone I know, commemorate him as a national hero or something like that, except the masons, who really count him as their master, or "great teacher",whatever you want to call. He was one of the most important members of masonic lodges in Turkey.

But neither the folk, nor the politicians commemorate him, or see him as an idol..He was one of the people who has responsibility in terrible administration of the Ottoman Empire during WW I.Probably Enver Pasha, due to his ideologic status, is seen as an idol by some "Turanist"(Pan-Turkist) groups, but not Talaat.

This note has been just put there as a sign of a respect for a person who put a bare mark on Turkish history, I believe, that's it.

A few weeks ago I saw the conditions of his grave on the newspaper: Vagrants were drinking alcohol and breathing bally aroud there...

"Well, that person has an effective mark on Turkish history as the Grand Vizier of the empire, that is a fact nobody can deny, of course...But, in any part of Turkey, anyone I know, commemorate him as a national hero or something like that, except the masons, who really count him as their master, or "great teacher",whatever you want to call. He was one of the most important members of masonic lodges in Turkey.

But neither the folk, nor the politicians commemorate him, or see him as an idol..He was one of the people who has responsibility in terrible administration of the Ottoman Empire during WW I.Probably Enver Pasha, due to his ideologic status, is seen as an idol by some "Turanist"(Pan-Turkist) groups, but not Talaat.

This note has been just put there as a sign of a respect for a person who put a bare mark on Turkish history, I believe, that's it."

Ok then. Why dont you ask a Jew how he/she would feel if the same attitude was welcome towards Hitler in Germany now.

Well, that person has an effective mark on German history as the Fuhrer of the empire, that is a fact nobody can deny, of course... But, how do u think a Jew would fill if in any part of Germany, anyone you know, commemorate him as a national hero or something like that, except the neo-nazists, who really count him as their master, or "great teacher",whatever you want to call. He was one of the most important members of Nazistic lodges in Germany.

It not the same thing-nowhere near it

Originally posted by The Guardian It not the same thing-nowhere near it

right, care to expand?
�

I believe its a debate among Turks, not the scholarly world

Originally posted by mamikon I believe its a debate among Turks, not the scholarly world

Are you kidding me?Is that the only peice of document on the Armenian genocide?The orders are certain in Talat's telegrams-and there is no order given saying "kill them"-or "destroy them" or anything like that

Originally posted by mamikon Originally posted by Mira Originally posted by mamikon I must say that is kind of depressing. So nothing really has changed in the Turkish Government, and it view on the Armenians. This summarizes the entire objective behind this post; to criminalize Turkey and its people.  As a friend of mine had said, "Imagine commemorating another Adolf Hitler." There's much debate on this issue, and Talaat Pasha hasn't been 'officially' convicted.  So whether he's considered a hero or not, that's got to do with his other reforms that affected the empire. Just criminalize the government and the military. Especially since so many Turkish government employees are getting more and more involved in the idiotic Pan-Turanic idea that was Enver's dream. And what do you think the bestseller in Turkey is "Mein Kumph". Methinks Turkey is going in a very disturbing direction (even though just reading Mein Kumph doesnt make you a Nazi, or supremacists or whatever). To my eyes, and every Armenian you see, Talaat is worse than Hitler...

Well, there is no such belief among government employees right now, and most of the time there weren't, it is just a radical dream of some extreme nationalist groups. 

Mein Kampf has been the bestseller for a month or so in summer, but not right now and it was because it was sold for so cheap, like 1/5 price of normal book prices in Turkey

From Mamikon's statement in the upper part, I got the idea that he is just blackening Turkish government and military just to blame, that has nothing to do with the situation...And plus, I believe it is so normal to bring back the tomb of a statesman who had governed the Ottoman Empire for nearly a decade, and show respect.

Originally posted by Kapikulu Originally posted by mamikon Originally posted by Mira Originally posted by mamikon I must say that is kind of depressing. So nothing really has changed in the Turkish Government, and it view on the Armenians. This summarizes the entire objective behind this post; to criminalize Turkey and its people.  As a friend of mine had said, "Imagine commemorating another Adolf Hitler." There's much debate on this issue, and Talaat Pasha hasn't been 'officially' convicted.  So whether he's considered a hero or not, that's got to do with his other reforms that affected the empire. Just criminalize the government and the military. Especially since so many Turkish government employees are getting more and more involved in the idiotic Pan-Turanic idea that was Enver's dream. And what do you think the bestseller in Turkey is "Mein Kumph". Methinks Turkey is going in a very disturbing direction (even though just reading Mein Kumph doesnt make you a Nazi, or supremacists or whatever). To my eyes, and every Armenian you see, Talaat is worse than Hitler...   Well, there is no such belief among government employees right now, and most of the time there weren't, it is just a radical dream of some extreme nationalist groups.  Mein Kampf has been the bestseller for a month or so in summer, but not right now and it was because it was sold for so cheap, like 1/5 price of normal book prices in Turkey From Mamikon's statement in the upper part, I got the idea that he is just blackening Turkish government and military just to blame, that has nothing to do with the situation...And plus, I believe it is so normal to bring back the tomb of a statesman who had governed the Ottoman Empire for nearly a decade, and show respect.

Oh maybe the Germans should bring Hitler's tomb. You know, and show respect...(heavy sarcasm)

Yes I am blackening the Turkish government, its policies and beliefs, and for being ruled by the army, where everyone is anti-Armenian, and the chain continues to this day, since I doubt anyone with even a little sympathetic  the Armenians would make it lieutenant or above...
 

Edited by mamikon

What do you mean this thread has nothing to do with your government? Was not Talaat in the Young Turk government? Was it not the government that carried out the Armenian Genocide?

"Talaat was shot by an Armenian"

What does that mean? He automatically becomes a saint and a martyr. He is condemned by the whole world in having a large role in the Genocide, and your president goes to his tomb and pays respect? (that was my original question, if this was really true). When did I say its unnatural when his tomb is brought back to his country?

Some time ago, the Japanese prime minister went to a shrine dedicated to a Japanese general,  who coincidentally killed many Chinese civillians before WWII. He apologized soon after that...