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Topic ClosedHow did the Tuerks converted to Islam?

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: How did the Tuerks converted to Islam?
    Posted: 11-Oct-2004 at 08:07

Greetings brethren,

Here is a topic I thought you might find interesting.

Did our ancestors convert because they liked the teachings of Islam?

Or were they forced to convert by our so called religious brothers "the arabs"?

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Oct-2004 at 16:33
i swear i was about to make a post on that, lol, i guess your one step ahead, Stillhawk. Im very curious about that as well.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Oct-2004 at 02:05

Well here is what I know...

When the arabs came to preach the teachings of Islam, my ancestors pretty much didn't like what they hear. They were happy with their pagan ways. Instead of turning back to search for other people to convert, the arabs waged one of their holy war on us. That war lasted for 300 years. Now you might think how could the arabs win against Turks (We were pretty good warriors at that time as well). Well the problem was we weren't a united nation. Our nation at that time consisted of seperate city-states. And also there is the fact that arabs can fight like starved dogs when they know there is plunder and woman to rape if they win the battle.

So in the end the ruling princes decided to convert to end the slaughter. It's quiet stange that we became the fiercest defenders of Islam after our conversion.  

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Oct-2004 at 04:02

"Our ancestors" are the Oghuz you know and they didn't fight a religious war with the "Arabs" in Central Asia because when they appeared, the Abbsids were no longer there. The convertion of the Oghuz was rather peaceful, it started with the convertion of Seljuk (real name Selk?) Begh and his followers in the 10th century, and continued in the 11th century. Though, I guess the convertion of the Oghuz into Islam was both by force (ordered by the ruler; like what happened happened to the Kievan Rus) and by the people's will because of the increasing Islamic propaganda made by missionaries.

OTOH, the Umawwids did fight bloody and long wars with the Western Tujue/Onoq and with the Khazars. However, since these peoples were not converted to Islam, you can't say the Turks converted totally by brutal force of the Arabic invaders.

The Uyghurs started to convert because of Qara-Khanid pressure. The Qara-Khanids, like the Oghuz, converted in multiple ways. Same with the Volga Bulgars.

I don't know how the rest converted, probably in the way of Oghuz, Qara-Khanids and Volga Bulgars.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Nov-2004 at 20:24
The Turks, like Mongols, lived in the steppes of Central Asia and also like the Mongols, were nomadic, had very similar religions, and some groups of Turks such as that of the Oghuz, migrated west and they interacted with the Saracens who were Muslem by this time and through the interactions and influences on the Turks, they [Turks] then took in Islam as their religion in their new land. It was through influence from the Turk's neighbors that brought them to Islam.

Edited by Slickmeister
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2004 at 13:19

Turks had the Gktanr religion, which isn't pagan, and shamanism at the time when some Turkish tribes were being converted to slam under the Ummawid rule. Some Turkish tribes became Muslims because of the arabic violence and forced to believe in their beliefs. The Ummawid armys under Kuteybe Bin Muslim's control invaded the Turkish cities Semerkand and Buhara. They collected heavy taxes from all non-arabic nations even if they were Muslims. But they were only a small amount of Turkish tribes who weren't dependent to any Turkish khanates...

Also the Oghuz tribes which are todays Turkey's, Azerbaijan's and Turkmenistan's ancestors began to accept Islam in 10. century...

But the main factors of Turks convertion to Islam are:

1. Battle of Talas: The Abbasid armies and chinese armies had a war and the Karluks fighted with abbasids to stop the chinese invasion to todays kyrgzistan. After this war, economical relationships and cultural sharing began btw arabs and Turks.

2. The Karahanids: They were the first Turkish khanate that accepted Islam as its religion without any forcing. They built the first Turk-Islam culture...

3.The Oghuz and Seljuks:This is the most important convertion. The Oghuz Yabgu Khanate that ruled the Eastern Caspian lands was losing its power and a suba- a commandering the army- didn't accept the yabgu's command of attacking other turkish tribes. His name was Dukak Beg. After his death, his son Selchuk Beg commanded all the Oghuz army and rebelled to the yabgu in the city of Cent, which was the border between arabs and Turks. He accepted Islam with his Knk tribe and then fighted for his own lands independence.

After he became independent, he accepted Islam and build the Selchuklu Beyligi. Then, they conquererd the Oghuz Yabgu lands, Iran, the Karahanids, Mesopotamia, Jarusalem, all eastern medetarinnean and most of the arabic peninsula including Mecca and Medina. They joined all Turks and Muslims under their rule and the protection of Islam. They became the biggest and strongest defenders of Islam and the Ottoman Empire was built with their cultural inheritance...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2004 at 15:13

I didn't know that the Chinese have a hand in this as well.

A lot of Turks and Tibetans did serve under the Tang dynasty as generals, officers, soldiers etc. At the beginning Emperor Tai Zong managed to defeat the Tujue (Turks in Chinese) in several occasions and the Turks finally submitted. But due to his great benevolence and the great respect he commanded the East Tujue actually called him Tian Ke Han (Qaghan of heaven?). Sha To Turk mercenaries are also known for their ferocity and helped to suppress the Huang Chao rebellion towards the end of the Tang dynasty.

But of course, Eastern Turks and Western Turks look very different. Like the Chinese, Turks intermarry frequently as well.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2004 at 21:53
None of this would have been possible without the arabs overrunning persia. A remarkable feat considering how strong persia was historically and the timespan in which this conquest was accomplished.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Dec-2004 at 04:48
The conversion of the Turks was peace, for the reasons that oguzoglu mentioned. Also worth mentioning is the conversion of the Uyghur Turks (currently under chinese occupation) are also Muslims and have the adopted Arabic letters. This conversion was done peasefully just as all the other Turks were converted peacefully, for example the Uzbeks, Kazakh and so on.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2004 at 16:41

Turks had the Gktanr religion, which isn't pagan, and shamanism at the time when some Turkish tribes were being converted to slam under the Ummawid rule.

I wouldn't call it the "Gktanr religion", I like the term Tengriism/Tengrism more. Plus, there really isn't any religions called "Shamanism", that's Neo-Tengrism.

Which "Turkish tribes" converted to Islam under Umawwid rule?

Some Turkish tribes became Muslims because of the arabic violence and forced to believe in their beliefs.

Again, which tribes?

The Ummawid armys under Kuteybe Bin Muslim's control invaded the Turkish cities Semerkand and Buhara.

You mean the Soghdian cities ruled by a Turkic elite.

2. The Karahanids: They were the first Turkish khanate that accepted Islam as its religion without any forcing.

No, it was the Volga Bulgar Khanate.

Then, they conquererd the Oghuz Yabgu lands, Iran, the Karahanids, Mesopotamia, Jarusalem, all eastern medetarinnean and most of the arabic peninsula including Mecca and Medina.

Actually they didn't conquer the original Oghuz homeland, they had already migrated away from there into Transoxiana and later into the Middle East. And the Qara-Khanid states were only vassals of the Seljkid Greater Sultanate.

I didn't know that the Chinese have a hand in this as well.

They actually didn't have much, the results of the Battle of Talas has been greatly exaggarated.

A remarkable feat considering how strong persia was historically and the timespan in which this conquest was accomplished.

You're right but keep in mind the fact that the Sssnids were already weakened from their long-lasting wars they fought against the Byzantine Romans and Western Turks.

worth mentioning is the conversion of the Uyghur Turks (currently under chinese occupation) are also Muslims and have the adopted Arabic letters. This conversion was done peasefully just as all the other Turks were converted peacefully, for example the Uzbeks, Kazakh and so on.

I'm not very sure but IIRC the Islamisation of the Uyghurs was started by force by the Qara-Khanids in the 10th century, and continued up to the 15th-16th centuries. However, I have no details right now.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Dec-2004 at 10:30
It seems like some of the modern Turkish aren't proud of their Islamic History
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2004 at 01:36
Originally posted by Stillhawk

 And also there is the fact that arabs can fight like starved dogs when they know there is plunder and woman to rape if they win the battle.

To the Moderators that article is against the forums policy

To Stillhawk

This is not a FACT

you should read your Turkish History again 

Islam gave civilization which made Turkey through the  Ottomans one of the strongest empires in the world

And that wont be possible if it started by raping women to "Convert" you

Look at turkey now, to me it looks so confused ( ignoring and hating your Islamic history and your Government begging  Europe to get accepted in her "comunity"

here is a tip let your government announces that it is a Christan country and it will get accepted right away

its like we are living in the middle ages, no matter what you do Europe will keep look at Turkey as an Islamic country which wont be accepted in her Christan community. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2004 at 10:17

It is true that some nomadic Turkish tribes whose lands were invaded by Ummayids werent treated well and they were converted to Islam by force.

But most of the Turks accepted Islam with the frontiering of Oguz. They accepted it because of their policys and the advantages of Islam culture. And we had the mission to get anatolia from greeks and rule the lands from eastern ocean to the western ocean. And it was only possible with accepting Islam as our religion because we could be able to rule the arabic peninsula and Iran with a common religion...

The Arabs were guilty because they betrayed the Inheritance of Hz. Muhammed and they differed the nmuslim nations under their rule from arabs and they were arab racists. But the Abbasid Caliphate was more civilized than the other caliphates and they ruled all nations with peace...

You are right about one point you mentioned that is the most important one. Most of our latern history is Muslim and it affected our civilization very much. And I am proud of being a Muslim and owning the same religion with my ancestors, and being an inheritor of my great great great fathers. But %70 of my countries population may not be proud. It doesn't matter. Islam is a big part of our common culture, and it will remain as the blood of my nation. Some European lovers in my country cannot change it with begging Christians to tip them...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2004 at 10:27
Quote:
Turks had the Gktanr religion, which isn't pagan, and shamanism at the time when some Turkish tribes were being converted to slam under the Ummawid rule.

Some Oguz tribes living under their rule. For example Afar and Yuregir. Because the caliphate invaded southern Aral region where Turks live.

In history, the Karahanids ara known as the first Turk khanate that accepted Islam as its religion. The Bulgars were not even an independent Turkish state. They were a small nomadic group converted to Islam and lost their ethnicity...

"Actually they didn't conquer the original Oghuz homeland, they had already migrated away from there into Transoxiana and later into the Middle East. And the Qara-Khanid states were only vassals of the Seljkid Greater Sultanate."

If you read my post carefully, you will see that I didn't right HOMELANDS. I wrote OGUZ YABGU LANDS. That is an Oguz khanate where Dukak Beg was suba.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2004 at 11:55

iam happy to hear that there is someone who is proud of being a muslim, it is strange when somebody hates his own history just becouse some rulers or sultans or even generals weren't good to the people or the country, it is just not logic  we are talking about more than 600 years not 60 years and whoever made that bad image is a small part of it , they dont represent the all history.

well it is true that the last Caliphats of Ummayad ( ummayah) were the worst people to rule the islamic empire

but put in mind "Just the last ones the last four"

before that the caliphate were good exept for one General appointed by Caliphat abdul malik  that general was like Hitler of the 7th century his name was alhajjaj ben yosef.

well because of this guy india and northwest africa where conquered ( he selected the generals for each army)

but still he was the worst

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2004 at 19:05
Originally posted by azimuth

It seems like some of the modern Turkish aren't proud of their Islamic History


Turks look to the west now. I think they use the western alphabet whereas traditionally they've used arabic script to suit their needs. I wonder if the Turks converted to Islam because  Islam seemed the 'stronger' religion at the time 6th-9th century. Compare the political, social, and cultural situation of Islam vs the Chrisitian west. I know that I'd be impressed with Islam more than the Christian west at that period.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2004 at 07:27

Anyway it sounds pathetic to run behind the stronger or the richer whoever he is.
Instead they should work hard to prove that they are in no need to beg anybody.

if they are really what you mentioned

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2004 at 21:08
Originally posted by azimuth

Anyway it sounds pathetic to run behind the stronger or the richer whoever he is.
Instead they should work hard to prove that they are in no need to beg anybody.

if they are really what you mentioned

Some of the conversions happened by that decision like Vladimir converting to Christian Orthodoxy over judaism. Judaism as he puts it was the faith of a defeated people.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2004 at 09:52
No, Turks were converted to Islam because it was tha most suitable desicion to choose...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2004 at 10:12
i think so too
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