Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

5 Things I Like About Pakistan

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345>
Author
Afghanan View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Durr e Durran

Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1098
  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 5 Things I Like About Pakistan
    Posted: 28-Jan-2006 at 00:38

These are 'Pathans'

Imran Khan Niazi

Irfan Pathan

'Pathan' Zamindars of India

Shahrukh Khan

Salman Khan

Feroz and Fardeen Khan

Amir Khan

 

Pathan really describes those Pashtuns who have lived generations outside their native Pakhtunkhwa in urban centers throughout the subcontinent.  Many of the pictures of people above are celebrities and sportsmen for Pakistan and India.

 

The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
Back to Top
TeldeIndus View Drop Down
Earl
Earl
Avatar

Joined: 04-Jan-2006
Location: Poland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 258
  Quote TeldeIndus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2006 at 09:03

Originally posted by Afghanan

Originally posted by TeldeIndus

I know everything is Afghan to you, but I'll give you a clue in the meantime. These boys are from Swat Valley, Pakistan. Swat Valley is not known as a refugee area - It's buffeted by both Dir and Chitral. That would make it very unlikely they're refugees - besides all that one look at those jumpers, trousers and the way their clothes are all clean suggests there's no way they're refugees.

Well it depends what kind of refugee. Refugees who live in Tents are obviously not going to have access to ample amount of clean water. But as you know there are many, most likely in the millions, who not only reside in homes throughout the NWFP, but own land and businesses.

..so in fact what you're saying is that their parents have most likelysettled in Pakistan and are now doing quite well for themselves. So does that not make them................Pakistani, genius?

Originally posted by Afghanan

Since you like this word Genius, it might help to know that this picture has been used in MANY websites, and the first one I ever saw it on, was much older than this website you linked it to...Genius.   

Could you link me to one website that says they're not from Swat Valley, and are from Afghanistan? 

Originally posted by Afghanan

Irfan Pathan

Interesting you should put him there. Dont know why you think he's a Pathan - There's nothing Pathan about him. Wherever he got his Pathan surname from, it wasnt from the tribals - the word doesnt exist there, just superfically in non Pashto conversations - Most Pathans can spot this a mile off, you cannot.

Originally posted by Afghanan

These are 'Pathans'

Imran Khan Niazi

Irfan Pathan

'Pathan' Zamindars of India

Shahrukh Khan

Salman Khan

Feroz and Fardeen Khan

Amir Khan

 

Pathan really describes those Pashtuns who have lived generations outside their native Pakhtunkhwa in urban centers throughout the subcontinent.  Many of the pictures of people above are celebrities and sportsmen for Pakistan and India.

This actually just an absolute load of mumbo-jumbo. I'll be fussy since I'm talking to you - yes, let's be fussy. The word "Pathan" comes from Hindi, but was used by the British to refer to the Pashtuns, when they were in British India. A lot of people from the subcontinent, Sindh, Punjab, India etc refer to all Pashtuns as "Pathans". Pathans, in Pashto, refer to themselves as "Pakhtuns" - their language as "Pakhto" rather than "Pashto". But this is a minor point, and most Pashtuns, when not speaking their own language call themselves any of the above names, Pathans is fine for most Pashtuns, I have no idea why he keeps on going on about it. But in no way does "Pathan" mean someone who lives outside of their native "Pukhtunkwah" - Pathans living in the NWFP refer to themselves as Pathan when speaking English.

If you like, you can read about it from the website of the NWFP itself!

"Pakhtoon designates a person who speaks Pukhtu. Pathan is a Hindi term adopted for them by the British. The racial composition of the Pukhtoons is less than clear. The tribes who dwelled in the area in the days of the Greek historians are believed to be part of the great Aryan horde which had moved down from Central Asia a millennium earlier. Over the course of centuries, the Greek, Persian, Turk, and Mongol invaders who passed through the Frontier have added their blood."

http://www.nwfp.gov.pk/AIS-page.php?pageName=People+of+NWFP& amp; amp; amp; amp; amp;DistId=1&DeptId=1&LangId=1  

Ohhh, just ignore that picture on the right, since it must be a mistake as Einstein has said they're actually Afghan refugees  



Edited by TeldeIndus
We are not without accomplishment. We have managed to distribute poverty - Nguyen Co Thatch, Vietnamese foreign minister
Back to Top
AlokaParyetra View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 28-Aug-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 140
  Quote AlokaParyetra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2006 at 10:22

Ok, this whole pathan debate seems kinda pointless. Does it matter what kind of pathan they are? The point that was made is that Pakistan is a diverse nation. Regardless of where they are from, the pathans make Pakistan diverse.

It's like this. I'm Indian, but have lived in the United States just about all my life. Sure, my genetics will indicate i am Indian, but that's not the point. The point is that the United States is a diverse nation.

Same thing here. Let's say that they are Afgan Pathans and not Pakistani Pathans. As long as they live in Pakistan, does it matter? The point is that Pakistan is diverse, not that Pathans are Pakistani. Atleast, that's how i see it.

Back to Top
TeldeIndus View Drop Down
Earl
Earl
Avatar

Joined: 04-Jan-2006
Location: Poland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 258
  Quote TeldeIndus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2006 at 10:32
I totally agree. I have no idea why they're going on about it. My point was that Pakistan is an ethnically diverse nation, that was it. I just showed some of the ethnicities in there. 
We are not without accomplishment. We have managed to distribute poverty - Nguyen Co Thatch, Vietnamese foreign minister
Back to Top
Jhangora View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 02-Oct-2005
Location: Korea, South
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1070
  Quote Jhangora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2006 at 15:06

Raising and lowering of National flags at Wagah.I guess this could have been posted in the 'Things I like about India' thread too.

 

A visit to Lahore would not be complete without a stopover at the Wagah border crossing with India. The changing of the guards and the flag lowering ceremony on either side of the border have become a tourist attraction as both countries try to outdo each other in the precision of their troops' drill. It's real entertainment repeated daily accompanied by the necessary chanting on either side an vocal support from the spectators, a bit like in a European soccer game.

http://www.hansdewaele.com/web/newlocation/locationnow.html

 

 

Jai Badri Vishal
Back to Top
Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
King
King

Suspended

Joined: 05-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5697
  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2006 at 23:35
I love the trucks and the lowering of the flags.

I particularly like the way the busses play music on their multiple horns. Unfortunately I can't do a sound clip.
Back to Top
Afghanan View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Durr e Durran

Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1098
  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2006 at 00:13

so in fact what you're saying is that their parents have most likelysettled in Pakistan and are now doing quite well for themselves. So does that not make them................Pakistani, genius?

Lets get a few things straight.   Refugees live in Pakistan and working in Pakistan, will always be Afghan, no matter how many Passports they have.  They have strengthened the bond between Afghans on both sides of the border.  From Pashtuns living in Pakistan, I have heard they not only run the bus transport businesses, but are ruling in the carpeting business, and have many shops and businesses in Karachi, Quetta, and Peshawar (where many officials have Afghan relatives across the border).   If they want to be Pakistani citizens thats fine with me, and if you want to fantasize about this all day, be my guest, it does not make a difference to me.

Could you link me to one website that says they're not from Swat Valley, and are from Afghanistan? 

No, find it yourself.   There are a few websites you can start your search, primarily Afghanistan websites.  I have found MANY Pakistani websites using pictures of Afghan refugees or even Afghans as being Pakistanis and 'Pathans."

ALSO,  I did look at the link your picture came from, it originated from an "angelfire" free website with pictures of other people marked wrong.   On one picture it showed a picture of students from supposedly "Northern" Pakistan.  In actuality, its a recent picture taken from an Afghan school in Northern Afghanistan, and they are in fact, Tajik children who are lining up to go to their first day of a newly reconstructed school.

Interesting you should put him there. Dont know why you think he's a Pathan - There's nothing Pathan about him. Wherever he got his Pathan surname from, it wasnt from the tribals - the word doesnt exist there, just superfically in non Pashto conversations 

Pathans can spot a Pathan?   No kidding?     Ofcourse Pathan does not exist in real Pashtun tribal charters, neither does all the Pakistanis claiming to be "Khans."  But the fact remains, he is a Pathan because 1 - He has intermixed and become Indian and 2,  can not speak the language of his ancestors.  I have even met Sikhs and Hindus who claim to have Afghan heritage.

--

Originally posted by Afghanan

Pathan really describes those Pashtuns who have lived generations outside their native Pakhtunkhwa in urban centers throughout the subcontinent.  Many of the pictures of people above are celebrities and sportsmen for Pakistan and India.

Originally posted by TeldeIndus

This actually just an absolute load of mumbo-jumbo. I'll be fussy since I'm talking to you - yes, let's be fussy. The word "Pathan" comes from Hindi, but was used by the British to refer to the Pashtuns, when they were in British India. A lot of people from the subcontinent, Sindh, Punjab, India etc refer to all Pashtuns as "Pathans". Pathans, in Pashto, refer to themselves as "Pakhtuns" - their language as "Pakhto" rather than "Pashto".

Actually they do not.  In Afghanistan, they called them "Afghans" and in the areas they occupied, they called them "Pathans."  This was a British tactic to keep them divided politically from each other.  The most notorious was Sir Olaf Caroe, who wrote a history book called "The Pathans."  This is considered a respectable work of scholarship on the history of Afghans.  In actuality, the first few chapters contain very good information, but when the history spreads to the Afghan-British wars, he leaves the entire history of the wars blank, and instead talks about how the "Pathans" are friends to the British and should accept Pakistan.  This ofcourse is the same time during the Waziristan revolt, and again he mentions nothing about the British bombing of Waziristan. 

He further tries to divide them AGAIN in 2 categories - Western Afghans and Eastern Afghans. But when the history stretches across his Durand Line, he refers to them as Pathans, and even claims that they should not be called Afghans!  Pathan is an inherited word from post-British era that Pakistan intentionally uses to keep Afghans/Pakhtuns divided.  The most blatant way they do this is by denying them the right to call their land Pukhtunkhwa, and instead call it by the British name, Northwest Frontier Province (NWFP).

Originally posted by TeldeIndus

But this is a minor point, and most Pashtuns, when not speaking their own language call themselves any of the above names, Pathans is fine for most Pashtuns, I have no idea why he keeps on going on about it. But in no way does "Pathan" mean someone who lives outside of their native "Pukhtunkwah" - Pathans living in the NWFP refer to themselves as Pathan when speaking English.

English is not the first language of Pakhtuns TeldeIndus, you'll need to come up with something better excuse than that. 

Originally posted by TeldeIndus

If you like, you can read about it from the website of the NWFP itself!

"Pakhtoon designates a person who speaks Pukhtu. Pathan is a Hindi term adopted for them by the British.

Who the heck gave them RIGHT to ADOPT this term FOR them?  They have no right to adopt anything for Pukhtuns. 

Originally posted by TeldeIndus

The racial composition of the Pukhtoons is less than clear. The tribes who dwelled in the area in the days of the Greek historians are believed to be part of the great Aryan horde which had moved down from Central Asia a millennium earlier. Over the course of centuries, the Greek, Persian, Turk, and Mongol invaders who passed through the Frontier have added their blood."

http://www.nwfp.gov.pk/AIS-page.php?pageName=People+of+NWFP& amp; amp; amp; amp; amp; amp;DistId=1&DeptId=1&LangId=1  

Ohhh, just ignore that picture on the right, since it must be a mistake as Einstein has said they're actually Afghan refugees  



It is unfortunate you refer to your Pakistani Government propaganda circles for information, even a teenager could not make such a naive mistake.  Nothing in that paragraph is supporting anything you say.  I have told you that it is a term the British used and YOU have inherited the British design of calling them Pathans.  I will say again, no Pakhtun will ever refer to him or herself as a Pathan.

The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
Back to Top
Afghanan View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Durr e Durran

Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1098
  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2006 at 00:38
Originally posted by AlokaParyetra

Ok, this whole pathan debate seems kinda pointless. Does it matter what kind of pathan they are?

It has nothing to do with what kind of Pathan they are.  Pathan is a Pathan, and it is not a correct term when referring to Afghan refugees.  There are political motivations behind this word.

It's like this. I'm Indian, but have lived in the United States just about all my life. Sure, my genetics will indicate i am Indian, but that's not the point. The point is that the United States is a diverse nation.

Lets say you are a Pakistani refugee fleeing war and living in a temporary refugee camp in India and now someone claims that you are now a full-blooded ethnic Indian.  Would you agree?

The point is that Pakistan is diverse,

Pakistan is very diverse and it doesnt make sense as to why show pictures of Afghan refugees and claim they are Pakistanis and Pathans,  when you can easily find pictures of Pakistani Pathans over the internet and call them by their correct name.

The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
Back to Top
Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
King
King

Suspended

Joined: 05-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5697
  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2006 at 00:44
Afghanan, what is your expert opinion based upon? Why should we take the word of someone who clearly knows nothing about the region?
Back to Top
Afghanan View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Durr e Durran

Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1098
  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2006 at 00:59

It is better we continue this conversation between ourselves.  You make claims that I know nothing about the region,  but you name yourself with an Arabic name and tell me that there is no different between Qaaf and Kaaf, and that Nek Muhammad and Abdullah Mehsud do not exist.   Please Omar al Hashim, you do not seem to have a firm grasp of somethings yourself.

The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
Back to Top
TeldeIndus View Drop Down
Earl
Earl
Avatar

Joined: 04-Jan-2006
Location: Poland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 258
  Quote TeldeIndus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2006 at 01:02

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

Afghanan, what is your expert opinion based upon? Why should we take the word of someone who clearly knows nothing about the region?

And he still cant give me a link saying those kids are Afghan refugees  

Originally posted by Afghanan

I have told you that it is a term the British used and YOU have inherited the British design of calling them Pathans.  I will say again, no Pakhtun will ever refer to him or herself as a Pathan.

I dont know whether to laugh or cry , many people living in the NWFP refer to themselves as Pathan when speaking English or Urdu!

We are not without accomplishment. We have managed to distribute poverty - Nguyen Co Thatch, Vietnamese foreign minister
Back to Top
Afghanan View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Durr e Durran

Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1098
  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2006 at 01:04

That is fine if they speak English or Urdu, but then you will need to put THEIR pictures up  on '5 things i like about pakistan.'  Not the picture of Afghan refugees and call them Pakistanis.

 

The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
Back to Top
Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
King
King

Suspended

Joined: 05-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5697
  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2006 at 01:19
Lets move this to the other thread now and keep this one about what we like.
Back to Top
Jhangora View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 02-Oct-2005
Location: Korea, South
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1070
  Quote Jhangora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2006 at 02:44

Ya Afghanan you've made your point.Ok my Pushtoon brother living in USA.Are you a Pathan.No please don't reply.Make atleast one post about something you like about Pakistan n take the Pushtoon/Pathan debate to another thread.Please.

 

 

No offense intended.I don't like Pakistani dramas.Too loud fo my liking.

And a humble request.Please stop pirating our movies.Couldn't find pic of a pirated CD.So i'll post pic of an original CD.Has any of the Pakistani members seen this movie?



Edited by Jhangora
Jai Badri Vishal
Back to Top
Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
King
King

Suspended

Joined: 05-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5697
  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2006 at 03:04
No, I haven't seen it. Pakistani dramas are terrible, and our sci-fi's are just funny.
Back to Top
Jhangora View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 02-Oct-2005
Location: Korea, South
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1070
  Quote Jhangora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2006 at 03:20

Javed Miandad.....

Don't like him too.Bcoz of the last ball six he hit off Chetan Sharma in Sharjah.Memory of that one shot still makes my heart ache.

Heard recently his son got married to Dawood Ibrahim's daughter in Middle East.

He was a gutsy player though.Couldn't succeed as a coach bcoz of the inter-camp rivalry that has been a part of Pakistani cricket.

Jai Badri Vishal
Back to Top
Anujkhamar View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1027
  Quote Anujkhamar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2006 at 05:06
I swear Mission Kashmir was an Indian film.......
Back to Top
Afghanan View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Durr e Durran

Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1098
  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2006 at 11:40
Originally posted by Jhangora

Ya Afghanan you've made your point.Ok my Pushtoon brother living in USA.Are you a Pathan.No please don't reply.Make atleast one post about something you like about Pakistan n take the Pushtoon/Pathan debate to another thread.Please.

There is no debate about what I believe.  But yes I think I have made my point about this.  The only thing i really like about Pakistan is....well, I'll get back to you on that one. 

The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
Back to Top
Jhangora View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 02-Oct-2005
Location: Korea, South
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1070
  Quote Jhangora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2006 at 10:53

Basant Celebrations......

 

 

Jai Badri Vishal
Back to Top
OSMANLI View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 24-Nov-2004
Location: North Cyprus
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 740
  Quote OSMANLI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2006 at 13:18

Nice post Jhangora,

ive heard that kites are a massive hit in Pakistan and i belive also in India. Would you know as to why?

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.