Morm&#111;ns can they beome like god?

http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2477& ;KW=morman&PN=0&TPN=2

Baron

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Posted: 18-Jan-2006 at 14:18

[QUOTE=eaglecap]
Was God once a man like us?
[/QUOTE]

Genesis 1: 26-27

And God said, Let ^aus^� ^bmake ^cman in our ^dimage^�, after our ^elikeness^�: and let them have ^fdominion^� over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own ^aimage, in the image of God created he him; male and ^bfemale created he them.

[QUOTE=eaglecap]
worked his way up to god hood?
[/QUOTE]

John 1:1-5

1:In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2:The same was in the ^abeginning^� with God.
3:All things were ^amade by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4:In him was ^alife^�; and the life was the ^blight of men.5:And the ^alight^� shineth in ^bdarkness; and the darkness ^ccomprehended^� it not.

John 1: 1-5 JST

1:In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God.2:The same was in the beginning with God.3:All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made which was made.4:In him was the gospel, and the gospel was the life, and the life was the light of men; 5: the light shineth in the world, and the world perceiveth it not.

I am out of time, I will reply and answer more questions later. I hope this helps

Edited by Le Renard

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Posted: 18-Jan-2006 at 14:19

here is where we tried to answer your questions to the best of our ability last time

i believe we answered at least one of these question in the later half of the second page just use Ctrl+f then type in "God" and eventually the answer will come up. i believe it was "Le Renard who answered the question

Le Renard

http://www.i4m.com/think/southpark/

Baron

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Posted: 18-Jan-2006 at 21:27

If you notice, none of these refrences come from the Book of Mormon. These all come from the Bible. There may be more things in here that will help you out.

42 Evidences of the True Church

This list is from a book called The Greatest Quest by Blaine and Brenton Yorgason (Deseret Book Company). This novel describes the search by five college students to find the one true Church of Jesus Christ. At the end of this book, the authors combine their research with the work of Henry Whiffen who also developed a list. Together these gave a total of 42 points. In this list each point has been documented with scriptural references.

The Godhead consists of three separate and distinct beings - God the Father, his Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost.
1. Genesis 1:26-27;3:22
2. Matthew 3:17; 28:19
3. Luke 3:22
4. Acts 7:55
5. 1 John 5:7
God the Father, as well as his Son Jesus Christ, who is a resurrected personage, both have bodies of flesh and bone and spirit.
1. Genesis 32:30
2. Exodus 33:23
3. Luke 24:39, 41-43
4. John 20:17; 21:13-14
5. Acts 7:55-56
6. 1 John 3:2
Jesus is the Christ, the literal Son of God, the Messiah, and the only perfect person upon the earth - and not simply a great teacher.
1. Luke 9:35
2. John 17:4-5
3. Hebrews 1:6-7
Jesus Christ, as revealed in the New Testament, is Jehovah, God of the Old Testament.
1. Exodus 3:14
2. John 8:58
3. Isaiah 43:11
4. Hosea 13:4
The Holy Ghost is a distinct personage of spirit and is the third member of the Godhead.
1. Matthew 3:15-18
2. John 14:26; 16:13-14; 20:21-22
3. Ephesians 1:17
The Holy Bible is the word of the Lord insofar as it is translated correctly. It is the record of the Jews and will be joined with another record in the last days to relate God's word to his people. This second record will come from a descendant of Joseph.
1. Ezekiel 37:15-17
2. Isaiah 29:18
3. Revelation 20:12-14
Jesus Christ is recognized as the head of his Church, with other officers named, beginning with a foundation of apostles and prophets, and including teachers, saints, elders, evangelists, bishops, deacons, priests and high priests.
1. John 15:16
2. Mark 3:14-15
3. Ephesians 2:19-20; 4:11-14
Officers in Christ's church will be "called of God." They will receive their authority through the "laying of hands." One cannot call himself to the ministry,
a. College degree or license insufficient.
b. Royal priesthood will be known as such.
c. Bishops and leaders are to marry and to have children.
1. Acts 19:25
2. Hebrews 5:4, 10
3. Timothy 3:2; 4:2-3
4. 1 Peter 2:9
Members of Christ's church will be "workers," and will be called "saints." In addition, women will be included in activities and leadership.
1. Proverbs 12:4
2. Romans 1:7
3. Ephesians 4:12
4. 1 Corinthians 11:7
5. 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10
There will exist within the church separate entities for each of the groups of members. Adult and youth organizations will exist. This point stands to reason, if Christ is concerned with helping each individual from that person's own level of understanding.
1. Ephesians 4:11-14
Christ's church will believe in the "virgin birth" of Jesus Christ but will not believe in the "immaculate conception" of Mary.
1. Isaiah 7:14
2. Matthew 1:19-20, 23
3. Luke 1:26-31, 42
Christ's church will believe in immortality or eternal life, and in a heaven and hell. After the resurrection, we will be assigned to different places according to the judgement. The first resurrection will be for the righteous and will commence 1,000 years before the second resurrection.
1. John 3:16-17; 5:28-29; 14:2
2. 1 Corinthians 15:20-22; 40-42
3. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18
The Savior's church will honor Sunday as the Sabbath, with the understanding that the resurrection transpired Sunday morning, the first day of the week - and thus replaced Saturday as the Sabbath.
1. Hosea 2:11
2. Matthew 28:1
3. John 5:18
4. Acts 20:7
5. 1 Corinthians 16:2
Officers as well as members of Christ's church will receive continuous revelation from God.
1. Amos 3:7
2. Matthew 16:13. 16-19
3. Ephesians 1:17
Members of the Lord's church will be payers of tithes and offerings.
1. Malachi 3:8, 11
2. Luke 11:42 Hebrews 7:4-5
Members of the church will regularly partake of the Lord's supper. This sacrament represents the flesh and blood of Christ and is partaken of in remembrance of him.
1. Matthew 26:26-28
2. Acts 20:7
3. 1 Corinthians 16:1-2
Members of the Lord's church will experience miracles, such as visions, tongues and prophesies. In addition, the church will practice divine healing. When members of the church are sick, elders of the church will anoint them with oil and heal them.
1. Matthew 9:18
2. Mark 6: 5; 16:17-18
3. Acts 5:12, 16
4. James 5:14-15
Church leaders will teach that the resurrected Jesus Christ will come again to the earth in the last days. This "second coming" will be greatly anticipated.
1. Job 19:25-26
2. Matthew 24:30
3. Acts 1:11; 3:19-21
Members of the Lord's church will be persecuted for their beliefs.
1. Matthew 5:10-12; 24:9
2. Luke 6:22-23
3. Acts 8:1-3; 28:22
4. Hebrews 11:36-38
The church as a whole, as well as its members, will be recognized for their "fruits" - as well as the prophets who lead them. The church will esteem honesty, virtue, and wholesome activity.
1. Proverbs 15:4
2. Luke 6:43-44
3. 2 Corinthians 9:10
4. Philippians 4:17
5. Hebrews 13:18
The church must provide salvation for all of God's children, not just those who receive the gospel while living on the earth. It will practice baptism for the dead.
1. Mark 16:16
2. John 3:1-8
3. 1 Corinthians 15:29
The church will build temples similar to the one Solomon built, which was destroyed and built again at the time of Christ. These temples will have unique purposes, including baptism and other ordinances. Temples will also be holy places, contain the Holy of Hollies, and be used by members as places of worship.
1. Isaiah 2:3
2. Malachi 3:1; 3:7
Christ's original church was organized by him and named after him, and his church today will also be named after him.
1. Acts 4:10-12
2. Ephesians 1:22; 4:11-14; 5:23-24
Specific authority to function in the administration of the church is called "priesthood." It is obtained through ordination by one having the power to so ordain.
1. 1 Samuel 13:9-14
2. Mark 6:7
3. John 7:16; 20:21
4. Acts 19:2-5
5. Hebrews 5:4-6,(6?)8-20
A higher priesthood authority is required to bestow the Holy Ghost than to baptize.
1. Matthew 16:19
2. Mark 1:7-8
3. Acts 8:15-18; 19:2-6
The church that Christ originally organized did not baptize infants since the prerequisite for baptism had (1) a capacity for repentance of past personal sins, and (2) a personal belief in the divinity and teachings of Christ.
1. Mark 10:14-15; 16:16
2. Acts 2:38; 8:12
The church is to send out missionaries (in twos), to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ.
1. Mark 6:7
2. Luke 10:1
The church will have a welfare system to provide for the poor and the needy within the church. Members are to provide for themselves and their family first, and then receive help from the church
1. Deuteronomy 15:11
2. Psalm 9:18
3. Isaiah 14:30
4. Mark 10:21
5. Luke 18:22
6. Romans 15:26
The church will have a law of health. Alcoholic beverages will not be used by members of the church.
1. Ephesians 5:18
2. 1 Corinthians 5:11; 6:9-10
The church will be one that is restored to the earth. Christ's original church experienced a great apostasy or falling away, but his church will be returned or restored again in the last days.
1. Jeremiah 31:31-34
2. Acts 3:19-21
3. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-13
4. Revelation 14:6-7
Christ's church will believe in being saved by the grace of Christ through exercising faith in him. In other words, it will teach that when we repent of our sins and forsake them, the atonement of Christ will cleanse us of our sins.
1. Matthew 7:21-29
2. Mark 16:15-16
3. Luke 6:46-49
4. 1 Timothy 4:10
5. James 1:22-25; 2:14-26
The church will preach only the true gospel of Christ, with no variations. It will neither add to the meaning of Christ's teachings nor take away from them - even though current revelation will provide insight into them.
1. Matthew 5:19
2. Galatians 1:6-9
3. Ephesians 4:5
4. Hebrews 13:8-9
Christ's church will espouse a pre-earth life, or a preexistence, such as that taught by the Orthodox Jews. Included in this teaching will be the doctrine of foreordination and not predestination. God the Father will be recognized as having created the individual spirits of all people.
1. Genesis 1:26-31
2. Job 38:4-7
3. Ecclesiastes 12:7
4. John 17:5
5. Ephesians 1:4-5
6. Hebrews 12:9
The church will believe in the "original sin" of Adam. Nevertheless, it will teach that Christ atoned for Adam's sin and that we will be punished for our own sins, as Adams sin has already been atoned for.
1. John 1:29
2. Acts 24:14-15
3. Romans 5:6-19
4. 1 Corinthians 15:21-23
Christ's church will teach that the gathering of Israel, in the last days, will be literal.
1. Isaiah 5:26-30; 11:12-13; 35
2. Jeremiah 3:14-18; 31:10
Members of the true church will respect the beliefs of others.
1. Galatians 5:22-26; 6:1-2
2. 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10
The church will be subject to the laws of the land, regardless of the type of government in power in that land - thus rendering unto Caesar that which is his, and to God that which is his.
1. Matthew 22:21
2. Mark 12:17
3. Luke 20:25
It should be recognized that while perfection is to be sought by each member of Christ's church, the members will have human failings and will make mistakes, and that they will thus need to grow and learn - line upon line, precept upon precept.
1. Isaiah 28:10
2. Ephesians 4:11-14; 28,32
After repentance, baptism by immersion is essential, as is receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. A person performing these ordinances of baptism and the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost must be duly authorized to perform such ordinances.
1. Matthew 3:13-15
2. John 3:5
3. Acts 2:38,41; 22:16
4. Romans 6:5-6
The Savior's church will have an unpaid ministry. This unpaid ministry will be called "by revelation," even as the apostles called new members to their quorum following the resurrection of Christ.
1. Amos 3:7
2. Micah 3:11
3. John 10:13
4. Acts 1:22-26
5. 1 Corinthians 9:18
6. 1 Peter 5:2
Satan is a real spirit being and not a fragment of people's imagination.
1. Job 1:6
2. Matthew 4:10
3. Mark 1:13; 8:33
4. Luke 13:16; 22:3, 31
5. John 13:27
6. Acts 26:18
The Holy Ghost will bear witness to the truthfulness of the Savior's plan, when it is presented. This is the one sure way of knowing which, if any, of the churches belongs to the Savior.
1. John 16:13-14
2. 1 Corinthians 12:4-12
3. Galatians 5:22-26
4. Ephesians 1:17

kotumeyil

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Posted: 19-Jan-2006 at 02:22

All I know about Mormons is what was told in a South Park episode:

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Posted: 19-Jan-2006 at 02:43

I heard from a reliable source that the founder of the Mormons believed Jesus Christ came to the ancient Americas and preached there. Is that true?

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Posted: 19-Jan-2006 at 03:01

Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival

I heard from a reliable source that the founder of the Mormons believed Jesus Christ came to the ancient Americas and preached there. Is that true?

lol...no..

That's just silly to say. Mormons just say that to try to make Utah a "holy spot"..

Edited by Fort Brooklyn

Le Renard

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Posted: 19-Jan-2006 at 09:30

Originally posted by Fort Brooklyn

Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival

I heard from a reliable source that the founder of the Mormons believed Jesus Christ came to the ancient Americas and preached there. Is that true?

lol...no..

That's just silly to say. Mormons just say that to try to make Utah a "holy spot"..

Yes, Christ did visit the Americas We have it recorded in 3 Nephi 11, which is in the Book of Mormon. http://scriptures.lds.org/3_ne/11

For those who say that the Book of Mormon is a book that Joseph Smith made up, read 2 Nephi 29 http://scriptures.lds.org/2_ne/29 these are words from Christ.

Ezekial 37:16-17

16:Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one ^astick^�, and ^bwrite upon it, For ^cJudah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and ^dwrite upon it, For ^eJoseph, the ^fstick^� of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:17: And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become ^aone^� in thine hand.

To explain the verses I just quoted above:

The stick of Judah (the Bible) and the stick of Joseph (the Book of Mormon) will become one in the Lord�s hand, Ezek. 37: 15-20. The Bible�s truthfulness will be established by latter-day scripture, 1 Ne. 13: 38-40. The Bible will be joined by the Book of Mormon in putting down false doctrine, 2 Ne. 3: 12. A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, 2 Ne. 29: 3-10. All who believe the Bible will also believe the Book of Mormon, Morm. 7: 8-10. Elders shall teach the principles of my gospel, which are in the Bible and the Book of Mormon, D&C 42: 12. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly, A of F 1: 8.

Le Renard

http://www.i4m.com/think/southpark/

Baron

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Posted: 19-Jan-2006 at 09:37

Originally posted by kotumeyil

All I know about Mormons is what was told in a South Park episode:

That is defently not the way to go about learning about a religion. lol. If you want to know more go to one of the religions meetings. (I am talking about all not just the Mormons) http://lds.org - The offical chruch website and http://mormon.org - To learn more about the church

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Posted: 19-Jan-2006 at 15:33

Le Renard,

So Christ discovered the Americas?

Are there any non-Mormon sources (reliable ones, not from religious books) that claim Jesus visited the Americas? And how did he do so, no ships at that time had the ability to get him across the Atlantic. Even if there was such a ship (which there wasn't until the late 1400's), wouldn't it have taken years for Christ to sail to the Americas, preach, and sail back? Surely everyone, even non-Mormons, wouldve known about this if it were the case. And why was Christianity completely absent when Europeans came to the Americas 1500 years later?

I don't mean to be offensive or anything. I'm just confused

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Ulixes

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Quote

Posted: 19-Jan-2006 at 15:51

Mormons... I have heard of them in the movie "Troy"... But what do they do...are they a sect??

Anyhow no one can become a God .... There is no God... If there was one than where is he who shall keep peace and order on Earth?

Im a Christian but doubt on God but believe on a Force which we do not understand and will not do it ever in our lives!

So I dont believe a mormon or anybody could become a "god", immortality will be conquered through a action wich will be writen in books or be known though out the entire world... example king Nabuchadnazzer the second , his name is feared but yet its IMMORTAL!

Maju

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Posted: 19-Jan-2006 at 16:18

Originally posted by Le Renard

Originally posted by kotumeyil

All I know about Mormons is what was told in a South Park episode:

I actually found it quite educative. Btw is it LDS or LSD?

NO GOD, NO MASTER!

Le Renard

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Posted: 19-Jan-2006 at 20:28

Originally posted by Maju

Btw is it LDS or LSD?

It is LDS - Latter-Day Saints

LSD is a drug (or at least I think it is)

Le Renard

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Posted: 20-Jan-2006 at 09:38

Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival

Le Renard,

So Christ discovered the Americas?

Hey Armenian Survival No offense taken. You are confused so I will try to clear things up a bit the best I can. I don't know of any non-mormon sources that tell of Christs visit to the Americas. There may be some, but I don't know.

Christ did not take a ship or a boat. He decended out of heaven once he was resurrected. Do you know or remember the story of His death and how He rose on the third day?

After he was crucified, his disciples asked pilot for his body to lay in the tomb. After three days He rose from the dead and accended to his Father in Heaven. He became imortal. After his resurrection he visited the 12. In John 20:19-22;

19) Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were ^aassembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and ^bstood in the midst, and saith unto them, ^cPeace be unto you. 20) And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his ^ahands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they ^bsaw the Lord. 21) Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my ^aFather hath ^bsent me, even so ^csend^� I you. 22) And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

In this set of scripture, Jesus appered without the doors open. They were closed and he came into the room where they were assembled. Just the same as in the Americas. Christ decended out of heaven to the Nephite people. In 3 Nephi 11:8-11

8) And it came to pass, as they understood they cast their eyes up again towards heaven; and behold, they ^asaw^� a Man ^bdescending^� out of heaven; and he was clothed in a white robe; and he came down and stood in the midst of them; and the eyes of the whole multitude were turned upon him, and they durst not open their mouths, even one to another, and wist not what it meant, for they thought it was an angel that had appeared unto them. 9) And it came to pass that he stretched forth his hand and spake unto the people, saying: 10) 10 Behold, I am Jesus Christ, whom the prophets testified shall come into the world. 11) And behold, I am the ^alight and the life of the world; and I have drunk out of that bitter ^bcup^� which the Father hath given me, and have glorified the Father in ^ctaking^� upon me the sins of the world, in the which I have suffered the ^dwill^� of the Father in all things from the beginning.

He decended to them just the way that he did to his disciples. He did not need the boats or ships to carry him across the ocean.

I have a question for you. Was Christianity completely absent? When the exploers came over to America, the Incas, and the Myans (who we are speculating were the Nephites and the Lamanites) were wicked. They had fallen away from the truth and became a dark and lothsome people. 4 Nephi 1:39-46

39) And it was because of the wickedness and abomination of their fathers, even as it was in the beginning. And they were ^ataught^� to hate the children of God, even as the Lamanites were taught to ^bhate the children of Nephi from the beginning. 40) And it came to pass that *two hundred and forty and four years had passed away, and thus were the affairs of the people. And the ^amore^� wicked part of the people did wax strong, and became exceedingly more numerous than were the people of God. 41) And they did still continue to build up churches unto themselves, and adorn them with all manner of precious things. And thus did two hundred and fifty years pass away, and also two hundred and sixty years. 42) And it came to pass that the wicked part of the people began again to build up the secret oaths and ^acombinations of Gadianton. 43) And also the people who were called the people of Nephi began to be proud in their hearts, because of their exceeding riches, and become ^avain^� like unto their brethren, the Lamanites. 44) And from this time the disciples began to sorrow for the ^asins^� of the world. 45) And it came to pass that when three hundred years had passed away, both the people of Nephi and the Lamanites had become exceedingly wicked one like unto another. 46) And it came to pass that the robbers of ^aGadianton^� did spread over all the face of the land; and there were none that were righteous save it were the disciples of Jesus. And gold and silver did they lay up in store in abundance, and did ^btraffic^� in all manner of traffic.

I hope this helps. I will continue to answer questions in need be

Edited by Le Renard

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Posted: 20-Jan-2006 at 14:57

Originally posted by tadamson

In short� No, No, No...

? Why not go to their website and read up on them for yourself ?
http://www.mormon.org/

Why would some Mormons tell me that you can become a god? I also ran into some that deny this but there seems to be some confusion there.

I will read over the versus but from what I understand Mormons take it out of context by not taking the entire scripture into context. I find that other groups also do this like the Protestants and Catholics.
I once heard a man speak named Walter Martin, about Mormonism, who wrote Kingdom of the Cults but any branch of religion can be called a cult, the early church was. I think once you see the definition the term is not so bad. He spoke about Mormonish and JW's but it was to a Prostestant crowd and I am sure a little biased. It was one of the rare times I was suckered into going to some church called Calvary Chapel.
I will look over those versus and if I have any comments I will let you know.

One criticism if God is described in human form does he also have feathers because it talks about "in the shadow of his wings", maybe he is a bird as well. Just a quetion but if this is a metaphor then way can't his description as a man also be a metaphor. I know that most branches of Christianity and Islam do not believe God has a form but it, she or he is spirit.
I just wanted to clarify if what I was told was true by your theology. I had considered Mormonism at one time and the part about becoming a god sounded real good to me but I was very young at the time. My Orthodox mother, at the time, would not allow your missionaries into the house to talk to me so they gave up.

Le Renard

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Posted: 20-Jan-2006 at 19:13

Yes, Mormons can become Gods if they meet certain requierments and live worthly here on earth. Who ever told you that they can't (if he/she was Mormon), was mistaken.

The phrase "in the shadow of his wings" if a metahor like you said. I see exactly where you are coming from about the man as a metahor, but, it is not. God and his son Jesus Christ are personages. Here is the record of the First Vision by Joseph Smith Jr. http://scriptures.lds.org/js_h/1

While I was laboring under the extreme difficulties caused by the contests of these parties of religionists, I was one day reading the Epistle of ^aJames^�, first chapter and fifth verse, which reads: If any of you lack ^bwisdom^�, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. Never did any passage of ^ascripture^� come with more power to the heart of man than this did at this time to mine. It seemed to enter with great force into every feeling of my heart. I reflected on it again and again, knowing that if any person needed ^bwisdom from God, I did; for how to act I did not know, and unless I could get more wisdom than I then had, I would never know; for the teachers of religion of the different sects ^cunderstood^� the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible. At length I came to the conclusion that I must either remain in ^adarkness^� and confusion, or else I must do as James directs, that is, ask of God. I at length came to the determination to �ask of God,� concluding that if he gave wisdom to them that lacked wisdom, and would ^bgive liberally, and not upbraid, I might venture. So, in accordance with this, my determination to ask of God, I retired to the ^awoods^� to make the attempt. It was on the morning of a ^bbeautiful, clear day, early in the spring of eighteen hundred and twenty. It was the first time in my life that I had made such an attempt, for amidst all my anxieties I had never as yet made the attempt to ^cpray ^dvocally^�. After I had retired to the place where I had previously designed to go, having looked around me, and finding myself alone, I kneeled down and began to offer up the desires of my heart to God. I had scarcely done so, when immediately I was ^aseized^� upon by some power which entirely overcame me, and had such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. Thick ^bdarkness^� gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction. 16 But, exerting all my powers to ^acall^� upon God to deliver me out of the power of this enemy which had seized upon me, and at the very moment when I was ready to sink into ^bdespair^� and abandon myself to destruction�not to an imaginary ruin, but to the power of some actual being from the unseen world, who had such marvelous power as I had never before felt in any being�just at this moment of great alarm, I saw a pillar of ^clight^� exactly over my head, above the brightness of the ^dsun^�, which descended gradually until it fell upon me. It no sooner appeared than I found myself ^adelivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I ^bsaw two ^cPersonages^�, whose brightness and ^dglory defy all description, ^estanding^� above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other�This is My ^fBeloved^� ^gSon. Hear Him! 18 My object in going to ^ainquire^� of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)�and which I should join. 19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all ^awrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those ^bprofessors^� were all ^ccorrupt; that: �they ^ddraw^� near to me with their lips, but their ^ehearts^� are far from me, they teach for doctrines the ^fcommandments^� of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the ^gpower^� thereof.� He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself ^alying^� on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, ^bmother^� inquired what the matter was. I replied, �Never mind, all is well�I am well enough off.� I then said to my mother, �I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.� It seems as though the ^cadversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom; else why should the powers of darkness combine against me? Why the ^dopposition^� and persecution that arose against me, almost in my infancy?

***********

So it was with me. I had actually seen a light, and in the midst of that light I saw two ^aPersonages^�, and they did in reality speak to me; and though I was ^bhated and ^cpersecuted for saying that I had seen a vision, yet it was true; and while they were persecuting me, reviling me, and speaking all manner of evil against me ^dfalsely for so saying, I was led to say in my heart: Why persecute me for telling the truth? I have actually seen a vision; and who am I that I can withstand God, or why does the world think to make me deny what I have actually seen? For I had seen a vision; I knew it, and I knew that God knew it, and I could not ^edeny it, neither dared I do it; at least I knew that by so doing I would offend God, and come under condemnation.

eaglecap

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Quote

Posted: 22-Jan-2006 at 13:21

Originally posted by Le Renard


If you notice, none of these refrences come from the Book of Mormon. These all come from the Bible. There may be more things in here that will help you out.

42 Evidences of the True Church

This list is from a book called The Greatest Quest by Blaine and Brenton Yorgason (Deseret Book Company). This novel describes the search by five college students to find the one true Church of Jesus Christ. At the end of this book, the authors combine their research with the work of Henry Whiffen who also developed a list. Together these gave a total of 42 points. In this list each point has been documented with scriptural references.

The Godhead consists of three separate and distinct beings - God the Father, his Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. 
1. Genesis 1:26-27;3:22 
2. Matthew 3:17; 28:19 
3. Luke 3:22 
4. Acts 7:55 
5. 1 John 5:7 
God the Father, as well as his Son Jesus Christ, who is a resurrected personage, both have bodies of flesh and bone and spirit. 
1. Genesis 32:30 
2. Exodus 33:23 
3. Luke 24:39, 41-43 
4. John 20:17; 21:13-14 
5. Acts 7:55-56 
6. 1 John 3:2 
Jesus is the Christ, the literal Son of God, the Messiah, and the only perfect person upon the earth - and not simply a great teacher. 
1. Luke 9:35 
2. John 17:4-5 
3. Hebrews 1:6-7 
Jesus Christ, as revealed in the New Testament, is Jehovah, God of the Old Testament. 
1. Exodus 3:14 
2. John 8:58 
3. Isaiah 43:11 
4. Hosea 13:4 
The Holy Ghost is a distinct personage of spirit and is the third member of the Godhead. 
1. Matthew 3:15-18 
2. John 14:26; 16:13-14; 20:21-22 
3. Ephesians 1:17 
The Holy Bible is the word of the Lord insofar as it is translated correctly. It is the record of the Jews and will be joined with another record in the last days to relate God's word to his people. This second record will come from a descendant of Joseph. 
1. Ezekiel 37:15-17 
2. Isaiah 29:18 
3. Revelation 20:12-14 
Jesus Christ is recognized as the head of his Church, with other officers named, beginning with a foundation of apostles and prophets, and including teachers, saints, elders, evangelists, bishops, deacons, priests and high priests. 
1. John 15:16 
2. Mark 3:14-15 
3. Ephesians 2:19-20; 4:11-14 
Officers in Christ's church will be "called of God." They will receive their authority through the "laying of hands." One cannot call himself to the ministry,a. College degree or license insufficient.b. Royal priesthood will be known as such.c. Bishops and leaders are to marry and to have children.
1. Acts 19:25 
2. Hebrews 5:4, 10 
3. Timothy 3:2; 4:2-3 
4. 1 Peter 2:9 
Members of Christ's church will be "workers," and will be called "saints." In addition, women will be included in activities and leadership. 
1. Proverbs 12:4 
2. Romans 1:7 
3. Ephesians 4:12 
4. 1 Corinthians 11:7 
5. 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 
There will exist within the church separate entities for each of the groups of members. Adult and youth organizations will exist. This point stands to reason, if Christ is concerned with helping each individual from that person's own level of understanding. 
1. Ephesians 4:11-14 
Christ's church will believe in the "virgin birth" of Jesus Christ but will not believe in the "immaculate conception" of Mary. 
1. Isaiah 7:14 
2. Matthew 1:19-20, 23 
3. Luke 1:26-31, 42 
Christ's church will believe in immortality or eternal life, and in a heaven and hell. After the resurrection, we will be assigned to different places according to the judgement. The first resurrection will be for the righteous and will commence 1,000 years before the second resurrection. 
1. John 3:16-17; 5:28-29; 14:2 
2. 1 Corinthians 15:20-22; 40-42 
3. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 
The Savior's church will honor Sunday as the Sabbath, with the understanding that the resurrection transpired Sunday morning, the first day of the week - and thus replaced Saturday as the Sabbath. 
1. Hosea 2:11 
2. Matthew 28:1 
3. John 5:18 
4. Acts 20:7 
5. 1 Corinthians 16:2 
Officers as well as members of Christ's church will receive continuous revelation from God. 
1. Amos 3:7 
2. Matthew 16:13. 16-19 
3. Ephesians 1:17 
Members of the Lord's church will be payers of tithes and offerings. 
1. Malachi 3:8, 11 
2. Luke 11:42 Hebrews 7:4-5 
Members of the church will regularly partake of the Lord's supper. This sacrament represents the flesh and blood of Christ and is partaken of in remembrance of him. 
1. Matthew 26:26-28 
2. Acts 20:7 
3. 1 Corinthians 16:1-2 
Members of the Lord's church will experience miracles, such as visions, tongues and prophesies. In addition, the church will practice divine healing. When members of the church are sick, elders of the church will anoint them with oil and heal them. 
1. Matthew 9:18 
2. Mark 6: 5; 16:17-18 
3. Acts 5:12, 16 
4. James 5:14-15 
Church leaders will teach that the resurrected Jesus Christ will come again to the earth in the last days. This "second coming" will be greatly anticipated. 
1. Job 19:25-26 
2. Matthew 24:30 
3. Acts 1:11; 3:19-21 
Members of the Lord's church will be persecuted for their beliefs. 
1. Matthew 5:10-12; 24:9 
2. Luke 6:22-23 
3. Acts 8:1-3; 28:22 
4. Hebrews 11:36-38 
The church as a whole, as well as its members, will be recognized for their "fruits" - as well as the prophets who lead them. The church will esteem honesty, virtue, and wholesome activity. 
1. Proverbs 15:4 
2. Luke 6:43-44 
3. 2 Corinthians 9:10 
4. Philippians 4:17 
5. Hebrews 13:18 
The church must provide salvation for all of God's children, not just those who receive the gospel while living on the earth. It will practice baptism for the dead. 
1. Mark 16:16 
2. John 3:1-8 
3. 1 Corinthians 15:29 
The church will build temples similar to the one Solomon built, which was destroyed and built again at the time of Christ. These temples will have unique purposes, including baptism and other ordinances. Temples will also be holy places, contain the Holy of Hollies, and be used by members as places of worship. 
1. Isaiah 2:3 
2. Malachi 3:1; 3:7 
Christ's original church was organized by him and named after him, and his church today will also be named after him. 
1. Acts 4:10-12 
2. Ephesians 1:22; 4:11-14; 5:23-24 
Specific authority to function in the administration of the church is called "priesthood." It is obtained through ordination by one having the power to so ordain. 
1. 1 Samuel 13:9-14 
2. Mark 6:7 
3. John 7:16; 20:21 
4. Acts 19:2-5 
5. Hebrews 5:4-6,(6?)8-20 
A higher priesthood authority is required to bestow the Holy Ghost than to baptize. 
1. Matthew 16:19 
2. Mark 1:7-8 
3. Acts 8:15-18; 19:2-6 
The church that Christ originally organized did not baptize infants since the prerequisite for baptism had (1) a capacity for repentance of past personal sins, and (2) a personal belief in the divinity and teachings of Christ. 
1. Mark 10:14-15; 16:16 
2. Acts 2:38; 8:12 
The church is to send out missionaries (in twos), to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ. 
1. Mark 6:7 
2. Luke 10:1 
The church will have a welfare system to provide for the poor and the needy within the church. Members are to provide for themselves and their family first, and then receive help from the church 
1. Deuteronomy 15:11 
2. Psalm 9:18 
3. Isaiah 14:30 
4. Mark 10:21 
5. Luke 18:22 
6. Romans 15:26 
The church will have a law of health. Alcoholic beverages will not be used by members of the church. 
1. Ephesians 5:18 
2. 1 Corinthians 5:11; 6:9-10 
The church will be one that is restored to the earth. Christ's original church experienced a great apostasy or falling away, but his church will be returned or restored again in the last days. 
1. Jeremiah 31:31-34 
2. Acts 3:19-21 
3. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-13 
4. Revelation 14:6-7 
Christ's church will believe in being saved by the grace of Christ through exercising faith in him. In other words, it will teach that when we repent of our sins and forsake them, the atonement of Christ will cleanse us of our sins. 
1. Matthew 7:21-29 
2. Mark 16:15-16 
3. Luke 6:46-49 
4. 1 Timothy 4:10 
5. James 1:22-25; 2:14-26 
The church will preach only the true gospel of Christ, with no variations. It will neither add to the meaning of Christ's teachings nor take away from them - even though current revelation will provide insight into them. 
1. Matthew 5:19 
2. Galatians 1:6-9 
3. Ephesians 4:5 
4. Hebrews 13:8-9 
Christ's church will espouse a pre-earth life, or a preexistence, such as that taught by the Orthodox Jews. Included in this teaching will be the doctrine of foreordination and not predestination. God the Father will be recognized as having created the individual spirits of all people. 
1. Genesis 1:26-31 
2. Job 38:4-7 
3. Ecclesiastes 12:7 
4. John 17:5 
5. Ephesians 1:4-5 
6. Hebrews 12:9 
The church will believe in the "original sin" of Adam. Nevertheless, it will teach that Christ atoned for Adam's sin and that we will be punished for our own sins, as Adams sin has already been atoned for. 
1. John 1:29 
2. Acts 24:14-15 
3. Romans 5:6-19 
4. 1 Corinthians 15:21-23 
Christ's church will teach that the gathering of Israel, in the last days, will be literal. 
1. Isaiah 5:26-30; 11:12-13; 35 
2. Jeremiah 3:14-18; 31:10 
Members of the true church will respect the beliefs of others. 
1. Galatians 5:22-26; 6:1-2 
2. 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 
The church will be subject to the laws of the land, regardless of the type of government in power in that land - thus rendering unto Caesar that which is his, and to God that which is his. 
1. Matthew 22:21 
2. Mark 12:17 
3. Luke 20:25 
It should be recognized that while perfection is to be sought by each member of Christ's church, the members will have human failings and will make mistakes, and that they will thus need to grow and learn - line upon line, precept upon precept. 
1. Isaiah 28:10 
2. Ephesians 4:11-14; 28,32 
After repentance, baptism by immersion is essential, as is receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. A person performing these ordinances of baptism and the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost must be duly authorized to perform such ordinances. 
1. Matthew 3:13-15 
2. John 3:5 
3. Acts 2:38,41; 22:16 
4. Romans 6:5-6 
The Savior's church will have an unpaid ministry. This unpaid ministry will be called "by revelation," even as the apostles called new members to their quorum following the resurrection of Christ. 
1. Amos 3:7 
2. Micah 3:11 
3. John 10:13 
4. Acts 1:22-26 
5. 1 Corinthians 9:18 
6. 1 Peter 5:2 
Satan is a real spirit being and not a fragment of people's imagination. 
1. Job 1:6 
2. Matthew 4:10 
3. Mark 1:13; 8:33 
4. Luke 13:16; 22:3, 31 
5. John 13:27 
6. Acts 26:18 
The Holy Ghost will bear witness to the truthfulness of the Savior's plan, when it is presented. This is the one sure way of knowing which, if any, of the churches belongs to the Savior. 
1. John 16:13-14 
2. 1 Corinthians 12:4-12 
3. Galatians 5:22-26 
4. Ephesians 1:17

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I will try and find the time to read these but I will read before and after those versus because it is easy to totally take a verse out of context by just reading one or two versus. I have seen the JW's and born agiiiin types do this also. What is truth????

One question though a friend showed me a 1950's version of the Book of Mormon and a recent edition but some key versus were removed that were in the 1950's edition- why??????? Did God change his mind??? I would really like to know and please this is no attack upon your faith. I have Mormoms friends and I like their conservative values. I wish I could find an old edition and give you the versus.

Le Renard