Topic: The Name SLAV* Posted: 16-Jan-2006 at 15:16
The Name SLAV*
B. Philip Lozinski (Essays in Russian History, Archon Books, 1964)
B. PHILIP LOZINSKI, Assistant Professor
of History at the University of Montreal, studied with Professor
Vernadsky as a graduate student at Yale University from 1947 through
1951. He received his Ph.D. in the History of Art there in 1958.
Earlier study was at the University of Warsaw and the University of
Grenoble. In 1949 he received the M.A. degree from Yale University. He
taught History of Art at Connecticut College in the summer of 1949, at
Yale during the academic year 1960-61, and at the University of British
Columbia in the summer of 1961. From 1947 through 1949 he was a
Research Assistant at the Yale Art Gallery and from 1957 through 1959
an Associate in Research in History at Yale. His fields of
specialization are Medieval, Iranian, and Slavic Art. His publications
include The Original Homeland of the Parthians (The Hague, 1959) and
numerous articles and book reviews in scholarly journals.
THE ORIGIN of the name Slav, Protoslavic Slovenin, has never been
entirely satisfactorily explained. [1] All the bibliography pertaining
to the problem was published by Vasmer, Otrebski and Rudnickyj, [2] and
need not be repeated. The three main suggestions derive the name of the
Slavs from the following: from Slavic slovo, meaning "word," or slava,
meaning "glory," and from Latin sclavus, "slave." Etymological,
semantic and historical inconsistencies exist for each of these
explanations. Many attempts have been made to adjust one or the other
of the elements involved. For the details one may refer to the above
mentioned publications.
In the present paper I shall suggest another explanation, not too far
removed from the solutions proposed hitherto, but based on evidence
other than philological considerations alone. The basis for deciphering
the meaning of any proper name should be looked for in its social
importance in the group using it, in the possible traditions and uses
of the name, and above all in the semantics and the cultural concepts
of the time rather than of our own period.
Let us first examine the possible shortcomings of various extant explanations of the meaning of the name Slav.
The derivation of this name from the word slovo meaning "word" is
illogical. A community of language could hardly be indicated by the
noun "word." For such a designation one would rather expect a word for
"language," or "speech" or any equivalent thereof. The only known use
of "word" as a symbolic designation refers to the "word" as Logos, or
to the Book. In such a case the name Slav would have religious
connotations. The term "word," as Logos, would be rather an exalted
name for a people who, to our knowledge, never had any crusading
religious drives, nor left any trace of a revealed religion in their
traditions, even if their religion was monotheistic. [3] We may,
however, retain the idea that religious connotations were, perhaps,
implicit in the name.
The use of such a term as slava, "glory," for the proper name of a
population is entirely without parallel. It might conceivably have been
part of a dynastic title, but scarcely that of a group of nations,
whose written history does not contain sufficient evidence for such a
claim.
As to the identification with the Latin sclavus, which in later
Medieval times seems to have been connected with the name of the Slavs,
[4] the difficulty is of a historical nature. No Roman sources contain the name "Slav" in any form.
It appears first in sixth-century Byzantine sources, written in Greek,
as "Sklavini." The Byzantines, historically, were the first to come in
contact with the migrating Slavs, recording their existence and their
name. The name was not given to them by the Greeks. The Byzantine
historians customarily recorded the foreign name of a population group
as the one used by the group itself, or as it was passed on by an
intermediary. We must remember that certain Slavic groups retained the
designation "Slav" as their proper name. These are the West Slavic
populations of the Slovaks and Slovenes, and the Eastern Slovieni of
Novgorod. We
may consider this sufficient proof that: the name was not borrowed by
the Slavs from Latin through Byzantine Greeks but must have been their
own. It is worth noting, however, that the name of the Slavs in Arabic, Saqlaba, seems to suggest Latin etymology from "sclavus." There
is also no historical evidence for the possibility that the Arabs
borrowed the name from the Latin-speaking populations, or from the
Byzantines.
Arabic records concerning the Slavs were, if not earlier, much more
ample and more accurate [5] than those of the Byzantine historians, who
were many months of travel distant from the Slavs according to the
earliest Byzantine reports. [6] The Arabs, who were in direct touch
with the Slavs, could hardly have borrowed the name from the
Byzantines. It is even less likely that they took it from the
Latin-speaking populations with whom they had for long no direct
contact as far as we know. The form of the name used by the Arabs, and
by the Byzantines, remains inexplicable. Only further studies may
establish the proper sequence, by tracing the linguistic groups through
which the name of the Slavs passed to emerge in Greek as Sklavini, and
in Arabic as Saqlaba. As a working hypothesis I might suggest that both
forms are derived from the same source. To derive one from the other
without additional supporting evidence would be premature, but we may
well suppose a common origin for both. It is possible that we have two
names of different origins applied to the same people: Slavs
(Slovenin") and Saqlaba. The Slavs would have been the name used by the
people themselves. The Saklaba, which is not an Arabic word
[7], does not derive from Slav or any other form thereof. More
probably it is a name connected with some region, later used to
designate the people who came to this area. [8] just as the name
Germani, originally Celtic, was applied to Teutonic populations when
they took over the same territory. [9]
The proper name of the Slavs must have
been derived from a Slavic word, designating their most important
characteristic and distinguishing them from any other population group. It could not have been the name of the language, usually derived from the proper name of a population. The geographical [1
derivation seems tenuous, as such place names, although extant, are of
little importance. Moreover place names, when not topographical
descriptions, derive almost invariably from names of peoples, not
vice-versa. This is especially true for the first millenium A.D. as it
is attested by Stephanus Byzantinus. [11] The name of the Slavs might
have been taken from the name of a clan or a tribe, but here again we
have no historical evidence that such a clan or tribe ruled the whole
Slavic branch of nations at any time. [12] In any case their name must
have had some specific meaning before it became that of a family, clan
or tribe. We should look, then, for the meaning of the name "Slav" in
their language.
The name of the Slavs, according to recent linguistic studies, derives
from the Indo-European root slov-, with a short vowel o. The
Proto-slavic form would, accordingly, have been Slovenin". The East
Slavic variation with a instead of o would, then, be a later
development, possibly connected with the Russian pronunciation of
unstressed o as a, the so-called akanie. This is considered to have
occurred in the XII-XIII century, although Vaillant [13] claimed that
it was extant already in the Common Slavic. Such variety of opinions
proves that not. all the linguistic definitions may claim general
support, and that all the reconstructions are hypothetical and subject
to change. They are far from being definite solutions, as our knowledge
of the early stages of the Slavic language is not satisfactory. Thus in
the preliterary period the form with a might have been current in the
East Slavic, which at the time stood Very close to the West Slavic.
Slav Slovenin" is certainly a Slavic name and it came to other languages from Slavic.
The Western Europeans first encountered the Western Slavs, supposedly
using the form with o. And yet all the Western Europeans since the
tenth century used the form with a. As we know this a may have
represented as well the Slavic long a as the short o. The
first variation seems more probable, as it may have been supported by
the compound propoer names, such as Polish Boguslaw and Wladyslaw, or
Russian Sviatoslav, Iaroslav, etc. [13a], where the element slav" presents us with a vowel a not o, both in Eastern and Western Slavic.
I should like to present an alternate hypothesis, that the root of the original designation of the Slavs was rather slav than slov-, and to propose a different interpretation of the meaning of the name in terms of its semantic and historic raison d'etre.
What were the strongest characteristics of an early society? Not the
nationality, as this modern concept did not exist in early societies;
not the language, as the name of the language would have been derived
from the name of the group, not vice-versa. The strongest were those of
religion which distinguished the group from all others, providing the
foundation of the whole cultural entity.
In the first millenium A.D. the Christians of Europe were the
counterpart of the Mohammedans and the Buddhists of Asia; Jews formed a
group in terms of their religion not their speech, or their social or
"national" affinities. Other designations of peoples or states were
primarily those of the names of dynasties or of particular rulers. The
pagans, in turn, had their own definition of populations of other
religions, and, naturally, a name for their co-believers. Religious
interests were indeed of primary concern throughout the period.
The name of the Slavs first emerged
during the second part of the first millennium A.D. The name may have
had religious connotations, meaning, or value.
The tradition of a religious designation of people has survived among
the Slavs until the present. In Eastern Poland and Western Russia only
the educated distinguished themselves or others according to their
national or linguistic affiliations. In popular usage the national
names of Poles, White Russian, or Ukrainians are nonexistent.
"National" differences were, and still are, expressed in terms of
religion: Catholic meaning Polish, and orthodox, pravoslavny, used as
the equivalent of Russian, Ukrainian, Small Russian, or White Russian.
When your heart is empty,your
mind is worth nothing.
anonimus
The term prawoslawny, pravoslavny, seems to
offer a key to the name "Slav." It is composed of two words: prawo,
meaning "law," "right," and "right side," and slawny from the root slav-, "glorify" in the sense of "worshipping."
Whether prawoslawny, pravoslavny means right, proper, or
law-worshipping, is not the question. We are concenrned only with the
name Slav which I propose was derived from the early self-designation of the Slavs as "worshippers."
The Slavs were probably comparatively secluded from outside influences,
at least in the early period during which they were forming a unified
linguistic group and social organization very likely based on one
religion. Thus anyone belonging to their group was a "worshipper,"
others were "pagans," whatever word was used for this purpose. This
attitude is normal in any religious group, and was no doubt exceedingly
strong in earlier times. Cuius regio eius religio any one belonging
to, or joining, a linguistic, social, and political entity
automatically had to become a worshipper of the god or gods of the
group.
The term pravo-slavny is a compound,
and as all compounds in Slavic a direct translation from a foreign
language, in this case from Greek. In Greek orthodoxos the doxa
retained the connotations of "worship," or "belief," "faith,"
especially in Medieval Greek. [14] Thus the meaning of the Slavic
component at the time of the translation must have been similarly
"worship," "worshipping." And indeed
slav- had this particular meaning. Slav'n" is "pertaining to worship"
with an adjective-forming suffix; it has both a passive and an active
meaning, although at present only the former is used. The meaning of "Slav" would be, then, a "worshipper," "one who glorifies God."
In the compound, translated from the Greek, the "worshipper" became the
"right worshipper," or the rightfully worshipping. The compound
translation from the Greek might have been used to distinguish the
Christians, or the proper Christian worshippers, from the people called
Slavs "worshippers," who were pagans, or, according to many Arabic
historians, sectarian Christians even before the official conversion,
in particular Jacobites, that is heretical, not rightful worshippers.
[15]
The word used in this sense in the eighteenth century is recorded by Strahlenberg, [16] who calls "Weynachts Masquerade" slavenie.
The worshipping function of Christmas popular rituals is too well known
to require elaboration, and the term denotes this function (Deistvie po
glag. slaviti [17]) .
This meaning of the name "Slav" would be an exact counterpart of the
general usage of the second part of the first millenium A.D. from
Europe to China. Manichaeans, Nestorians, Buddhists, Fire Worshippers,
Mohammedans, Saracens, Pagans, Bogumils, and finally Christians are
temrs prevailing in the sources of the time, especially in what we
would call international relationships, in distinguishing the
background, often the origins of individuals or large groups of
populations.
To all these religious designations of populations I propose that the name of the Slavs, meaning worshippers, be added.
The translation of the name "Slav" as "worshipper" would clarify the
proper names of the Slavs containing this element. The so-called
topographic explanation of the name "Slav" would also fit into the
above explanation. Slavenin" would designate a man originating in the
country of "worshippers," for the members of this religion the only
true one. Even today a pagan of whatever denomination is not a
worshipper in the eyes of the members of different religious groups.
The religious origin of the group name was of primary importance for
the Slavic society, as is evidenced by another term designating a
social group of the Slavs. The Russian word for peasant is krestianin,
formed in the same way as Russian Slavianin, Polish Slowianin, and in
simple translation meaning Christian. Following the Arabic historians
and the evidence of archaeology I have suggested elsewhere [18] that
the Slavs were sectarian Christians before the official
Christianization of the upper social level of society which was, in all
probability, of a different stock. The Slavs, according to Oriental
historians, were Jacobites (Monophysites), [19] a sect exiled to the
East from Byzantium in the sixth century. [2
Strong traces of monophysitism are still preserved in Russian religious
life. [21] The Byzantine empire in the tenth century tried hard to
eradicate this heresy at home, and no doubt directed similar
persecutions in Russia. This is exemplified by the strife for the
Metropolitan see of Kiev, occupied by a monophysite bishop before the
final establishment of an orthodox metropolitan in 1037 (or 1054?) [22]
The Russian word for "peasant" suggests that the new masters of the
Kievan Rus, converted to orthodoxy, changed the social aspect of the
populations they ruled. The old sectarian Christians, presumably the
Polianie, Drevichanie, Viatyche, Radymiche, etc., were pushed to the
bottom of the social scale, or driven out to the West, as their names
appear later in Poland with all the accompanying place names of each
group. [23] The krestianin who remained in Russia became a peasant on
the land which he had held previously as his own. In an early medieval
population social distinctions were of much more importance than
national ones. In this case the designation of a creed marked the
distinction of a social class. This is an additional indication that
the religious definition contained in the root slav- was of primary
significance in this society which used religious terms for names of
population groups, whether as that of a cultural entity Slavs or as
that of a social class krestianin.
The preceding explanation of the name of the Slavs may have a specific bearing on early Slavic history. Such a religious derivation of a proper name was suggested recently by Professor Vernadsky for the Alans:
"The Alans were often referred to under another name, that of As
(Asii). It seems probable that the Alans and the Asii had been
originally two separate tribes, or clans, but that later they merged
together. In my opinion the name Asii is of religious origin. In Avestan the stem yaz expresses the notion of 'worship'.
Yazata means 'who must be worshipped,' hence 'deity', 'divine power'
(in Ossetian izaed means 'angel', 'spirit'). A demon named Az is
occasionally mentioned in the Avesta. In Manichaean texts Az is called
'the evil mother of all demons' and also a 'death demon'. For the
Minichaeans, naturally, former deities became evil spirits." [24]
The
similar formation of the name of the "As" (Alans) and the "Slavs" in
all probability reflects the close cultural relationships of these
populations. Professor Vernadsky [25] was the first, in modern times,
to suggest that the Slavs had direct Iranian antecedents. The
derivation of both names from religious designations, as suggested
above, may be considered as additional evidence, especially as most of
the Slavic gods bear purely Iranian, or Indian, names. [26] One of the Slavic groups, the Poles, called themselves Sarmatians;
this name was recorded very early in Western Medieval chronicles [27],
which lends credence to the traditions recorded in Polish chronicles
edited at the waning of the Middle Ages, according to which they were
in touch with the Iranians. [28] In
Antiquity the Sarmatians, as is well known, were the Alans. [29] The
meaning of the name "Sarmata" in Iranian is the "council." [3 It refers not to the nationality or language, but to the social organization of the Alans,
ruled by a supreme council, appointing the king. [31] The role of the
council in early Slavic history is well known, especially among the
Western Slavs. Thus the social, or political, organization of the
Iranian Alans and Polish Slavs offers evidence of their affiliation.
Both groups used the Iranian word for "council" derived from the type
of their ruling body. They must have been in very close proximity to
affect such borrowings and exchange of influences. These were of such
important nature, defining the whole structure of the society, that we
are obliged to start thinking in terms of direct intermingling of
population groups.
The explanation of the name of the Slavs as "worshippers" fits the
cultural and sociological pattern of early Slavic history. Moreover it
is in perfect agreement with certain significant aspects of their
history, and enlarges the scope of our approach to the problem of
Slavic history and origins. It reaffirms the Asiatic connection of the
Slavs, a new trend emerging in research, which should be investigated.
The work of Professor Vernadsky prepared the ground for this kind of
approach. Early Slavic history was not as static as the
nineteenth-century historians believed. The dynamic forces in evidence
during the first millennium A.D. brought about great changes, recorded
by Oriental historians, and preserved in popular traditions. The great
migrations which took place on a continental scale, bringing the Slavs
into the Iranian orbit and producing close affiliations in the field of
religion, must have been followed by subsequent moves which finally
brought such Iranian elements to the present Slavic territories, at the
same time putting the Slavs in the European historical horizons.
The Name SLAV, by B. Philip Lozinski
pp.19-30 in Essays in Russian History, A collection dedicated to George Vernadsky
Edited by Alan D. Ferguson and Alfred Levin
Archon Books, Hamden, Connecticut 1964
1964, The Shoe String Press, Inc.
When your heart is empty,your
mind is worth nothing.
anonimus
I'm much more satisfied "a priori" with the derivation from slovo =
word. If the language was called by local terms, then why not use a
more generic term for the language family, such as word. Also there's
no reference to Slavs being particularly religious, just clans and
tribes with a low profile.
Serb even before christanty had "Slava" special family tradition and they are the only Slavs which still celebrate,but in interaction with christanity.
When your heart is empty,your
mind is worth nothing.
anonimus
According of Mario Alinei the great Neolithic cultural complex of the Balkans, with all its subsequent developments, is usually subdivided in three main groups (see e.g. Lichardus and Lichardus 1985, 242, 253, 311 ff.), which can be identified, with greater or lesser ease, with as many linguistic groups:
(1) The Thessalian and Southern Macedonian culture of Proto-Sesklo, followed by Sesklo and Dimini, identifiable with the Greek group;
(2) The Painted Ware cultures of Anzabegovo-Vrnik in Northern Macedonia, Starchevo in Serbia, Krs/Crish in Hungary and Romania, and Karanovo I in Bulgaria; followed later by Vincha (Serbia, Hungary and Romania), Veselinovo (Bulgaria), Dudeshti e Boian (Romania), identifiable with Southern Slavic;
(3) The Albanian Painted Ware cultures of Vashtemi-Podgornie e Kolsh, followed by those of Chakran and the more recent Maliq, to the last of which Albanian prehistorians themselves attribute the origins of Illyrian.
Which would of course reflect the original frontiers between Greeks, Slavs and Illyrians. More over, as we shall see shortly, the original homogeneity of this Neolithic Balkanic block can also explain the formation of the so called Balkanic Sprachbund, characterized by a number of peculiar Greek, Albanian, Southern Slavic and Rumanian isoglosses, until now without any satisfactory explanation
The historian from Slavonia Matija Petar Katancic wrote about the Serb name in the western Balkans :
Nostris profecto Illyriis adeo id familiare est us Srblos passim se compellent, non Serviam incolentes modo, sed universum pene Illyricum, ac Daciam quoque, in primis qui Graecam sequuntur ecclesiam, qui per hoc maxime se ab ceteris distingui putant quod Srbli, Srblyani nuncupantur.
It is very usual that our Illyrians call themselves Srblos, not only those who live in Serbia, but [those who live in] all Illyria and even Dacia, particularly those who follow the Greek law [the Orthodox]. They show that they distinguish themselves the most when they call themselves Srbli, Srbljyani.
(M.P.Katancsics. De Istro ciusque adcolis.1798).
- A Hungarian anonymus author states in 1790 :
Serbii i Bosnenses, quos Hungari Rascianos a Rasciae Regno appelant, nunquam se in propria lingua Rascianos vocant, se Serbios (Szerblyi), neque usquam linguam suam, aut nationem, Rascianam nuncupant, sed Serbicam aut Slavicam, Szerbszky, Szlavenski Narod.
The Serbs and the Bosnians, which Hungarians call Rasciani because of the Rascian state, never call themselves Rasciani in their own language, but Serbios (Szerblyi), and dont call neither their language and people Rasciani, but Slavicam, Szerbszki, Szlavenski Narod. (Dissertatio Brevis ac Sincera Hungaris Auctoris de Gente Serbica perperam Rasciana dicta, ejusque meritis et fatis in Hungaria, 1790).
When your heart is empty,your
mind is worth nothing.
anonimus
It is highly impossible that the Slavs are indigenous,autochtonous in the Balkans.
Reasons: 1.The Greeks had never
mentioned a people called Slavs in the ancient times,prior to the Roman
times.On the contrary,they had classified the tribes that lived in the
Balkan peninsula into two categories according to the language that
they spoke:the Thracians and the Illyrians 2.The region of the northern
Balkans,(Illyricum,Pannonia,Moesia,Dacia) was occupied by the Romans
for such a long period of time that all the barbarian tribes became
latinised in such a degree that they identified themselves only as
Romans and they were these people that fought against the raiders that
came from north of the Danube.There were four to five legions in the
Balkans so you can imagine the influence that they had uppon the
natives.However the languages of the natives had not disappeared but
they were mixed with the vulgar Latin that they spoke.Thus,the romance
languages of the Balkans were created,mixed with native words.So,as you
see,there is no space for indigenous Slav speaking population in the
Balkans under the nose of the Romans. 3.The Slav raids from north of
the Danube are recorded not only in history but ther is also
archaelogical evidence.The invasion of the Slavs which started in the
6th century A.D was definitely not peacefull.Most of the times the
Slavs were not alone but they had an asian people of the steppes as
their overlords,like the case of the Avars,the Bulgars and the Serbs
and Croatians.It is claimed now by most of the scholars that the Serbs
and the Croatians were an Indo-Iranian people from the steppes who was
ruling over a population of Slavs. 4 It is a fact noadays,most of
the scholars support that the homeland of the Slavic tribes was the
Prippet Marshes,and what is now northern Ukraine and
Belarussia.Herodotus mentions a slavic tribe in northern Ukraine called
Nervi. 5 The culture of the proto-Slavs shows Scythian influence,so they were the western neighbours of the Scythians for a long time
I'm much more satisfied "a priori" with the derivation from slovo = word. If the language was called by local terms, then why not use a more generic term for the language family, such as word. Also there's no reference to Slavs being particularly religious, just clans and tribes with a low profile.
I'm not sure i understand...do u mean they didn't worship any deities or what?(btw, u're ignoring my sanskrit thread, although it contains some stuff very interesting concerning your "speculations").
Dr. Allinei's theory is so full of holes, it doesn't even qualify as swiss cheese with holes... perhpas it can pass as some cheese around the holes
The original author has a rather huge mistake in his article. The original world Sklavus is not Latin but Greek in the form of Sklavos. The Vulgar Latin borrowed the word from Greek, as the presence of the latter precedes the Latin Sklavus by more than a century!
Apparently, both languages have adopted the word, as their ancient equivalents are different (classical Latin word for slave = servus, koine Greek word for slave = doulos) from an outside source, so it makes perfect sense to figure out that the Slavs called themselves that way - it is rather interesting that the name of a people was adopted as the word "slave".
As to where the name comes from... I am quite unsure and the explaination given does not address various points and can be refuted, although it makes sense in a way.
If you wanna play arrogant with me, you better have some very solid facts to back up that arrogance, or I'll tear you to pieces
Serbs (Sardi, Serali, Serbi, Sirmi) and Illyro-Moesians The name Serb did not appear in the Balkans in the IV-VII th century with the arrival of the Serb "Boji" tribe in the Western Part of the Balkan Peninsula.
It was used by the ancestors of modern-day Serbs in Antiquity, but was often corrupted as its pronounciation was concerned by foreign greek and roman writers.
In his book "Zapadna Srbija" (recently reprinted - edition house Glas Sardonija), the controversial historian Jovan Deretic shows that the toponomy from this remote period indicates a continual use of the serb name.
Ptolemaeus, Plinius and other historians describe
1) the following places : - Serbinum or Servitium (3 options for location : Gradiska, Srbac or Zagreb) - Seralium (Sarajevo) - Sirmium (Sremska Mitrovica) - Scardona or Sardona (Skradin) - Scodra, Sorda or Sarda (Skadar) - "Sardonici montes" between Stari Vlah, Durmitor and the Prokletije. - Serdica (Sofia, Bulgaria) - Servia (Greek Macedonia) ... + Savaria in Pannonia, Sarmigetuza in Dacia ...
2) the following tribes - Sardaei (on the Neretva) - Scordisci or Sordisci (in the illyrian-pannonian border) - Serdi (in the Sofia region) ...
3) Not to speak about possible transformations of the Serb name (cf Safarik's opinion on the name "Tribal" ...)
The most famous illyrian king Argon is said to have been a Sardaei, and Saint Hyeronimus a Sardus. The Ravenna Anonymus (writer from the VII th century) describes 3 "Sardonium" or "Sardotium" : 1 in Sarmatia, 1 in Dacia and the last in the South (on the Adriatic and north of Greece-Macedonia).
The serb etruscologist Svetislav Bilbija managed several years ago to interprete old rasenian, lydian and lycian thanks to the Serb language. He published almost 3 books on the subject (let's mention that slovenian venetologists have managed thanks to slovenian language to read venetian tablets from the Venetia-Noric region). According to him, the etrusc and these two asia minor languages are very close. He considers that the Lydians and Lycians, from the same origin, came in present-day Turkey from the Balkans in ancient times. The main river of Lycia was called Xanthos by Strabon, who indicates also its old name of Sirbis. The main city of Lydia was called Sard by the foreigners, and Kos by its inhabitants. In a monument called Xanthos Stella in Lydia, Bilbija managed to read the serb national name "Zrbi' two times. It is the way Lycian people called their compatriots.
It is now clear that Sard (often used in the Balkans and in the Appenine), Sarm (often used in Pannonia and Sarmatia), and Srb (often used in the Caucasus-Anatolian region) are three vesions of the same name. The geographical areas of these names are not clearly segmented. It is linked to the inability of foreign writers to understand and pronounce the serb name (in the Lycian-Lydian region, its is obvious that Sard means Zrb).
Its appears clearly that the Serbs of the Balkans did not stop to use their national name since Antiquity (the famous serb historian and linguist Milan Budimir found a lot of personal names as derivatives of the serb national name in greek and latin sources).
The Serbs are really the direct heirs of the Illyro-Moesian tribe of the Balkans.
When your heart is empty,your
mind is worth nothing.
anonimus
Ah, right, now we know where you are coming from. Yet another ultra nationalist... mentinoning things like a slovenian poet "reading" (gosh...) the venetian inscriptions using slovenian dialects - one of the many great farses of modern Balkanic malady - is typical...
If you wanna play arrogant with me, you better have some very solid facts to back up that arrogance, or I'll tear you to pieces
Ah, right, now we know where you are coming from. Yet another ultra nationalist... mentinoning things like a slovenian poet "reading" (gosh...) the venetian inscriptions using slovenian dialects - one of the many great farses of modern Balkanic malady - is typical...
If you are not interesting in the tematic,find your self something more appropriate.
My hole idea was to "discuss" with people on this forum. I'm not trying to chang the history,only to show that many things still exist to be exam.
For all present:"What was the name of those people before they call them SLAVS"?
When your heart is empty,your
mind is worth nothing.
anonimus
Is this AE forum just for kids,or can we discuss in appropriate way. Is the knowledge of members of this forum/topic comming only from websites,were they can learn in a few minutes a short version of history?
When your heart is empty,your
mind is worth nothing.
anonimus
I pardon your biassness,and will be glad to enlight you on this but let me tell you the fact that there are numerous claimes by distinguished historians about the word Slave actually comes from slave..and if you know the relationship between the Khazer Khanagate and these slavic tribes,you would be ashamed of imaging AE just for kids.
I pardon your biassness,and will be glad to enlight you on this but let me tell you the fact that there are numerous claimes by distinguished historians about the word Slave actually comes from slave..and if you know the relationship between the Khazer Khanagate and these slavic tribes,you would be ashamed of imaging AE just for kids.
Like i tought,kid is still a kid and i can not be mad on him. Read carefully from the top what i posted,if you don't have time for that i can understand,but i can't understand after all i done here you came with one word ''Slave". It's obvious that you still sufer from the period of Khanagate,were they tie kids head with a belt.
When your heart is empty,your
mind is worth nothing.
anonimus
The illyrian and Moesian population of the Balkan peninsula were
latinised during the Roman period and spoke Romance dialects derived
from Vulgar Latin at the time the Slavs came to the peninsula.You say
that the Serbs who speak a language of the slavic linguistic group are
the direct heirs of this population.This is mostly science fiction
instead of history.How can you deny the historical written evidence or
the archaelogical evidence which shows that there was migration of
Slavs from the north?It is obvious that despite the influences from the
pre-existing latinised illyrian culture in the culture of the Slavs of
the Balkans, the Slavs are neither Thracians nor Illyrians!
Sirmium was a Roman city destroyed by the Avaro-Slavs and Servia in Greece was founded in the medieval times by Heraclius.
In Greek we say doulos for slave.However,when the Avars,the Croats and
the Serbs came,the Slavs were slaves of these asian steppe minorities who
ruled over them.That's why sklavos came to mean slave in Greek,which is
another word we use for doulos today
If you are not interesting in the tematic,find your self something more appropriate.
My hole idea was to "discuss" with people on this forum. I'm not trying to chang the history,only to show that many things still exist to be exam.
Since I've posted twice here, I'd figure you are bright enough to understand that I am interested in this subject.... but...
...not in the way you are leading this. I've heard the nationalistic serbian mumbo jumbo (along with the Slavomacedonian, Bulgarian, Slovenian and Croation nationalistic mumbo-jumbo) a hundred times on a thousand fora on the internet and I am quite tired of this. If you want to discuss the origins of the word "slavs", be my guest - I've even said that I consider the Greek and Latins word for slave/Slav derive from the Slavs and not vice versa.
But cut the science fiction crap and Allinei's bull, those ain't fitting the subject anyway.
If you wanna play arrogant with me, you better have some very solid facts to back up that arrogance, or I'll tear you to pieces
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