God

There certainly is a God but no religions.Religions are for weak people

I don't need someone or a book telling me there is God and killing innocent is wrong.I already know there is God and killing someone is wrong


Edited by erci

  You are very clever Erci,what about dumb or uneducated people?how they will figured that out?

There certainly is a God but no religions.Religions are for weak people

I agree with that, although I respect all religions as cultural elements, which are not necessarily weak.

In my view, God is the metaphorical title of:
1. The force that maintains the physical laws that govern the universe.
2. The structure of universe, space, time, and the dimensions
3. The aspects of our "reality" that cannot be comprehended beyond our consciousness shell.

I think the descriptions above are necessarily valid.

On the other hand, religion is a cultural element that is not necessarily logical. Examples of religion include:
1. Creationist stories
2. God's personality and agenda
3. Worship of God


Edited by Imperator Invictus

Originally posted by erci There certainly is a God but no religions.Religions are for weak people I don't need someone or a book telling me there is God and killing innocent is wrong.I already know there is God and killing someone is wrong

 

And of all peoples--among the turks-- I find a mind much like myself.  

Religions kill God, everything should be reduce to its root. Essentially, the laws of God are naturally inherited, everything that man tends to invent is a perversion of the law unless that man studies himself and writes what he has discovered. Who here remembers the first time he became conscious as child, I do. I really remember the first time I truly became aware of the world; I felt I was never born, more like I woke up from a dream or perhaps I went to sleep and I'm dreaming now. That red orb of the sun setting behind that mountain, was much like that woman standing near me strangely somehow, I was neutral to both of them; I didn't feel like I love one more than the other, yet one is my mother the other is somehow the sun: an object apparently. That state of neutrality is a godlike state--devoid of all fear. I do think children are  essentially godlike in nature and become sooner or later corrupted by the world that surrounds them;and my dear friends religions do corrupt the minds of man and restrict our freedom of thought. While religions pollute or infect a mind, atheism and nihilism cause the desertification of a mind.

Edited by Quetzalcoatl

Originally posted by erci Originally posted by Ahmed The Fighter   You are very clever Erci,what about dumb or uneducated people?how they will figured that out? What do you mean? Religions should exist because uneducated people needs them?

What they need is not religion but education, I guess.

Originally posted by Tobodai Oh trust me, if they were disproven tommorow the people would still cling to their religions.  As it is enough people still think the world is 6,000 years old, adn thats disproven, as well as being just sad.

     Oh yea, if you give people indisputable proof they still would not let go. The lamest excuse some people give is "You can't disprove the existence of God". Well, you can't disprove that there are tiny, invisible fairies living inside my head. Does that make them real?

     Religion has nothing to do with whether someone is smart or stupid. I think religion helps bring it out, though. Example:

     One time a guy in my class said "How do people believe in evolution theres no proof". We all looked at him like "What the hell are you saying"....then we ask him what proof there is of creationism and he answers: "The Bible". We laughed so hard I think we should keep these people around just for the entertainment factor.

Originally posted by Paul Originally posted by Mila Before I ever start, I must confess I certainly did not think of this myself. I have no idea where I first heard it but it has been a part of my belief system for a very long time and I was wondering what you all think. I am 110% devoted to Islam as my faith and I can't even imagine believing in anything else. I am so convinced it is...real. But... I believe God is so abstract and so...big...that it doesn't surprise me that humans have developed 10,000 different ways to express God. In fact, I don't much doubt that God revealed himself to us in so many different ways - Catholicism, Buddism, native American religions - to make it easier for us to understand, relatively stupid beings that we are. What do you all who believe in God think about that? And what do you who do not believe in God think of it as well? EDIT: I suppose this is exactly what the Pope means when he says Catholics must fight against "relativism", but I believe in it. What no pictures in this post..... I wanna see a picture of the god of bosnia.

You'll never see a picture of a god of bosnia. How can you have a picture of an infinite incomprehensable being?

Originally posted by strategos But anyways I see, but "disproving" the Bible does not help prove the Quran. Perhaps some more examples would be good.

Sorry should've made it clearer. I haven't read the bible so have no right to comment on it, I was saying that the arguements that atheist were using didn't work on Islam. They may not work on Christianity either but I don't know enough to argue that line.

Originally posted by Mila People focus so much on the rules and the little things, then they miss the whole overall message of the faith.

That is so true!

Originally posted by Kalevipoeg The thing about believers of God is that you can't rationalize with them.

I would say the exact opposite. I have always found that religous people whether they be muslim, hindu, christian, jew etc are much easier to discuss things with. People who deny God and all religions have tended to be stuck in their ways, refusing to listen to any arguement that might bring doubt into their minds.

Originally posted by Maziar One thing i wanted to mention is, that human kind isn't stupid. We are thinking and this is a fact which differs us from animals. Claiming humans are stupid is typically for the clergy, then they expect us to find these new messengers with the purity of our own heart but without the use of our brain.

Do you realise that there isn't any clergy in Islam that is recognised by more than a region or a country. For muslims in the west there is often no clergy at all.

Originally posted by Maziar Islam wasn't sent from God, it was invented and devised by Mohammad

I doubt that any man could think up the Koran. Why don't you produce one sura that is equal to one in the Koran then?

Originally posted by Anujkhamar People talk about the whole science vs religion thing yet the main thing science has done for me is prove that there is a creator. Nothing in science disproves God, alot of it proves there is one imo. Science is about a search for the truth, and i believe that there is a creator who created this design, which is why for me science is my path to understanding God better.

Well said!

Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival if you give people indisputable proof they still would not let go

I've heard something like this before. Let me find it:
"When Our Signs are rehearsed to such a one, he turns away in arrogance, as if he heard them not, as if there were deafness in both his ears" - Sura Luqman, the Koran
Of course it is arguing the opposite line.

If the Koran was invented by a man, which is the logical explaination if you claim there is not God. Then you must as easily be able to explain:
the Koran says that mountains act like pegs on the earth to keep it from shaking under your feet.
- In the past 20 years its has been found that mountains extend a lot further down than they do up. Mountains in fact act to reduce the severity of earthquakes. How could an illiterate Muhammaed (pbuh) know more about geology that geogists just a century ago.
After the sassanids had capture the middle east from the Eastern Roman Empire. Sura Ar-Rum(615/616 AD) was revealed saying
"The Romans have been defeated in a land close by But they, even after this defeat of theirs will be victorious, within a few years"
In 627 the Emperor Heraclius recaptured the middle east from the persians. The dates cannot be greatly wrong because by 632 the first muslim arab raiding parties were attacking the persians and there is so much you can do in 5 years.
In fact how could an iliterate monolingual merchant possibly write a book that would change the face of the earth?

And there are so many more examples.

Because by the admission of even my Muslim proffessor who studies the religion of Islam, much was written after the fact, as it was indeed not written down for some time. Furthermore predicting a winner of a war is always a 50-50 bet.  And many pre modern cultures thought differently than we do now.  One can find a billion cultures with a billion ideas of how mountains are rooted.  I know for example that many Native American cultures viewed mountains as havinf very deep roots.  Many other cultures dont think that at all.  You have a million different folk tales about something origins and eventually youll find a few that happen to be right. 

I was saying that the arguements that atheist were using didn't work on Islam.

They do and they don't, its all down to interpretation. Some christians interpret the bible as confirming evolution, what with animals coming before humans, and life coming from mud and all. And some muslims don't believe in evolution, and have found parts of the Koran to help them in this end. Interpretation is a clever tool as you can make it see what you want to see.
Its all an exercise in lameness IMHO.

Originally posted by Maju Originally posted by erci Originally posted by Ahmed The Fighter   You are very clever Erci,what about dumb or uneducated people?how they will figured that out? What do you mean? Religions should exist because uneducated people needs them? What they need is not religion but education, I guess.

 My Religion encourage me to educate myself,therefor the Religions founded.