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Holland and 17th Century

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TheDiplomat View Drop Down
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  Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Holland and 17th Century
    Posted: 10-Oct-2004 at 05:34

Hello,

i see that the 17.century is also accepted to have  been the golden age of the Dutch influence.even i have recently read some historians showing Holland a dominant power in the 17.century.

Considering the fact that Holland gained independence after Westphalia 1648,this made me a bit confused.

therefore,i will be appreciating any info on Holland in 17.century and its influence very much.

regards

ARDA:The best Turkish diplomat ever!

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  Quote Evildoer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2004 at 06:42

I don't claim to know much on this subject, but here is my knowledge on the subject:

Although Spain continuously claimed Holland as her territory, she was only able to hold Belgium under her rule. She tried to take over Holland repeatedly in 16th century, but she failed. So although never officially independent, the Netherlands were practically a soverign naton.

 Meanwhile, the Dutch navy blockaded towns like Antwerp (Belgium) , eliminating trade rivalry for Amersterdam (Holland). At the same time, many of the victims of inquisition, especieally those from Spain, flowed into Holland, where there was greater religious freedom. Many of these people were capable merchants and intellectuals, and helped to develop Holland greatly. An example is Spinoza, a lens-maker and philospher from Spain.

Also, the Dutch merchants and pirates were raiding Spanish colonies and taking over their trade routes. In the Northern Baltic, trade flourished as Dutch merchants traded heavily with Sweden and the Baltic nations. Some the grains bought from these nations were sold to Italy where famine was devestating the countryside - at profitable prices.

 



Edited by Evildoer
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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2004 at 12:45
Yeah, the 7 provinces, were effectivly indipendant by 1568 already, 1648 was just the final formality, the time inbetween was the 80 years war.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2004 at 12:54
Evildoer is right. Spain claimed the Netherlands still to be Spanish territory until the Peace of Mnster in 1648. But the Netherlands were de facto already independent in 1579, forming the 'Republiek der Zeven Verenigde Nederlanden' (Republic of the 7 United Netherlands). Those 7 Netherlands were the provinces Holland, Zeeland, Utrecht, Gelderland, Overijssel, Friesland and Groningen. They were governed by stadhouders and a Provincial parliament. In the beginning almost every province had its own stadhouder, but gradually the princes of Orange-Nassau (ancesters of our current queen) became stadhouder of every province.

 The 'federal' government was the Staten-Generaal (predecessor of the current national parliament). Between 1579 and 1648 the Dutch conquered several territories outside the original provinces (most notably North-Brabant and Limburg). Those were called 'generaliteitslanden' were governed directly by the Staten-Generaal.

 The parts of the Netherlands that weren't conquered before 1648 stayed in the hands of Spain (later Austria). The were called the 'Southern Netherlands'. The territory rougly equals that of modern-day Belgium.
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2004 at 13:18
I have a question about Oranje/Orange, where's that principality located at? southern France?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2004 at 16:01
yes, It's the Orange in Southern France. William the Silent inherited the title 'Prince of Orange' in 1544.
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  Quote Quetzalcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2004 at 18:42

yes, It's the Orange in Southern France. William the Silent inherited the title 'Prince of Orange' in 1544.

 

 Can you tell us more about this,  why would the dutch inherit anything in southern France.  I would expect perhaps a small territory in Pas-de-Calais but southern France??



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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2004 at 18:52
William the Silent wasn't Dutch. He was German. He was count of Nassau (in Germany). When he was eleven he inherited Orange from his uncle, Ren of Chlons, who had died childless. In 1559 William was appointed stadhouder of the Dutch provinces Holland, Zeeland and Utrecht by king Philips II of Spain.
IIRC the Orange-Nassaus lost Orange during the French Revolution. (and they lost Nassau in 1806, when it became part of the Confederation of the Rhine).
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  Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Nov-2004 at 06:45

Thanks for the info,MixcoatlToltecahtecuhtli
Considering the fact that the first Dutch ambassador to Ottoman Empire was in 1612 which shows you guys had a global vision at that time ,you guys must have been a great power during the 17.century.

ARDA:The best Turkish diplomat ever!

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  Quote Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2004 at 21:13

I think it's also worth noting the sheer toughness of the Dutch, as well as their military innovations.  Those folks were ultimately able to defeat what had been the finest fighting force in Western Europe at that time--the so-called Spanish Army of Flanders. 



Edited by Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2004 at 13:02
plus the british fleet, which was also considdered the best of it's time.
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  Quote capcartoonist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Dec-2004 at 09:43

An interesting book to read is "The Island At The Center of the World" by Russell Sporto.  The book is about the founding of New Amsterdam, but he also talks a lot about Holland at the time. 

One thing he talked about was the Dutch culture of the time.  They believed that if a person worked hard and was clever, his/her social status could be improved.  Today that is taken for granted, but in the seventeenth century it was considered weird.

Cap
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