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ITZOCELOTL 
Knight 
Joined: 22-Dec-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 84 |
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 Topic: Cuahtemocs prophecyPosted: 07-Jan-2006 at 23:37 |
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Cuauhtemoc the last Tlatoani of Mexico defended Mexico to the fullest until he was captured. Cortes took him prisoner to Honduras. Before he met his fate Cuauhtemoc sent a mandate to the Mexican people excepting the death of the fifth sun. While also reminding future generations that we have the responsibility of rebuilding our nation under the sixth sun. His words were recieved by a messenger, and is said to go like this. source: www.Mexicauprising.net Nahuatl version of Cuauhtemocs prophecy .Totonaltzin omotlahtiuh, totonaltzin oixpoliuh, iwan tzentla yowayan. Otex kateh, max tikmatih. Ma okzepa walla. Ma okzepa kitztiki Iwan yankwik ohtikan. Texlace tlawilkin, max inoka ompa ka, Miktlantzin momanitz. Ma tzanwelliu titozentla tilikan. Ma titotexokan, iwan toyolnepantla. Ma titlatikan, moxi in toyoloh kitlazohtla. Kiweyi tlakiomatzintzintli. Iwan tikmatih, ipan iuhkin weyi xalxiwitzintli. Ma tikin popolokan toteokalwanzintli, tokalmekawanzintli, totlachkowanzintli, totelpochkalwanzintli, tokwikakalwanzintli. Ma motzekawakan, to owiwantzintli. Iwan ma toxanwantzintli ma texpelikan. Axkan amo maktia kin ikwak toyanwiktonalzintli. In tatzintzin, in nantzintzin, ma aik kilkawakan in tlamaxtli, in ixpilwantzin. In tatzintzin inka intelpochwan iwan in nantzintzin inka ichpolwan. Iwan ma kimaxtian inpilwan, inoka ik nemitzkeh. In yuhkin, kenin kwalli katka, kin axkan ixkixkawitl totlazohtla Mexico, in tlanekiliz, in tochimal. Iwan tlapalewiliztli toteowantzintzintli iwan tokenpololitztli. okitzeliken tokoltzintzinwan, iwan tlen totahtzintzinwan. Aik yoleka yaopan. okixtinaxkeh toyelitzpan. Akan tewantin tikintekimakah in topilwan, ka totlakwilolitzli wan tototlamatiliztli. Ma pixkia panpa nemolitzli. Axkan iwan tikin tochanwan toteokalwanzintli, tokalmekawanzintli, totlachkowanzintli, totelpochkalwanzintli, tokwikakalwanzintli. Amo makilkawakan, makinotzakan inpilwan, wel kenin yetz, kenin moewatz. Iwan wel kenin kitzko weyika nemilitz, iwan ki yektzon, weyika nextolilitztli - in totlazohtlalnantzin Mexico!
English version of Cuauhtemocs prophecy Our beloved sun has disappeared and has left us in total darkness. But we know that it will again return, will again come out and will come anew to shine upon us. But while it stays there in Miktlan (region of eternal repose.) We should rapidly gather and embrace ourselves. And in the center of our heart we will hide all that which our heart appreciates and considers a treasure. And we know like a great jade we will destroy our Teokalwanzintli (houses of youth), our Kalmekawanzintli (Universities), our tlachkowanzintli (ball courts), our telpochkalwanzintli (houses of young men), and our kwikakalwanzintli (houses of song.) That our roads may remain deserted and that our homes may preserve us. For now we do not know until when our new sun will come out. That the fathers and the mothers may never forget to teach their children. The fathers with the boys, the mothers with the girls. And that they teach their children while they live precisely how good has been that which has been until today. Our beloved Mexico The refuge, the protection and the care of our energies. And as a result of our customs and the behavior that our venerable elders received and our venerable parents with effort sowed in our essence. Now we deliver the task to our children that they guard our writings and our knowledge. From now on our homes will be our teokalwanzintli, our Kalmekawanzintli, our Tlachkowanzintli, our telpochkalwanzintli, our kwikalwanzintli. And do not forget to inform our children intensely how it will be. How we will rise! And exactly how its destiny will be realized and how it will fulfill its grand destiny. Our beloved motherland Mexico!
Cuauhtemocs burial in Ixcateopan, Guerrero Mexico
Cuauhtemocs skull
Monument to Cuauhtemoc next to his grave
Mexicatl tiahui! Edited by ITZOCELOTL |
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"It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees"
-Emiliano Zapata- |
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ITZOCELOTL
Knight
Joined: 22-Dec-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 84 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 08-Jan-2006 at 16:27 |
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If this is true than it is the Mexicans responsibility to rebuild our nation of Mexico.
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"It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees"
-Emiliano Zapata- |
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Jalisco Lancer
Sultan 
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 07-Aug-2004 Location: Mexico Online Status: Offline Posts: 2112 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 04:04 |
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Itzcelotl, seems that you are quite oriented to groups as Mecha,Aztlan and some others. chill out a little bit, Amigo. First of All, what we know as Mexico was not an aztec empire. Not all of us are nahuas.Not all the nahuas were aztecs. Cuahutemoc was not the last Huey Tlatoani since he was not elected as sucessor of Cuitlahuac. He was the militar chief in charge of the defense of Tenochtitlan. Tenoch and Cuahutemoc were not Huey Tlatoanis. Glad to see that you are so proud of your mexican roots, but extremism aren't good at all. The aztec empire lasted only 10 emperors from 14 century to the 16th century. Mexico or New Spain was forged during 3 centuries of colonial dominion and 184 years as an independent country. As you can see, Mexico goes beyond merely of the Mexica Empire. Saludos from Guadalajara. |
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ITZOCELOTL
Knight
Joined: 22-Dec-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 84 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 13-Jan-2006 at 20:37 |
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what do you mean? it clearly says in the codixes and books of today that cuauhtemoc was elected ruler right after Cuitlahuac died of disease. Well anyway I do not believe in many things that M.E.C.H.A. says for example, retaking the south west USA I dont believe in that. That part of the world was just conquered by Spaniards and they brought us the Mexicans along to be their slaves. I care about Mother Mexico but I do believe in education for all Mexican Americans or Xicanos in USA. Yes I Xalisco the Mexican empire in the 14th and 16 century is not the only part of our history. But during New Spain we were slaves. When we revolted the Creoles fought for more power, the Mexicans fought for basic human rights and freedom. Then after New spain died and became Mexico again what happend? again we were slaves to the creoles and some meztizos who are ashamed of their Mexican roots. Again we revolted, Zapata, Villa and other led the second revolution against the rascist Spanish creole government and Zapata and villa were assasinated. Today Mexico is still messed up jalisco thats why everyday on the news you see, Border hoppers!!! blah blah blah everyday man my parents were those people back in the 70s hopping that border. You said it your self that you are proud of the Mexican flag because it bears the symbol of the birth of Mexico. Our ancestors called the land Mexico- "center of the Moon" that is why they were called Mexicatl. Even today we bare the name. Well Jalisco I dont know were you stand with the Spanish, your Mexican people, or simply you dont care.If you are not Nahua, Mexicatl, Mexican what are you then? Yaqui? Creole? Mayan? Edited by ITZOCELOTL |
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"It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees"
-Emiliano Zapata- |
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ITZOCELOTL
Knight
Joined: 22-Dec-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 84 |
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Posted: 13-Jan-2006 at 20:49 |
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Mexico was not only forged during those times jalisco, the Olmecs, Teotihuacans, Toltecs, and chichimecas forged and created our culture that was blended and became Mexicayotl Mexican culture. So Do you agree that we should still live a life that the Spanish forced on to us? to forget those who died and those who were slaves and to keep living as the Spanish demanded us to? You think we should just forget the ancestors and just keep following this road, this Matrix the Spanish put us in? I do know what you are thinking bro but I hope to see a future in Mexico where the words "indio" "indito" will not be heard, only Mexicatl, a future of Nahuatl, and of Tonantzin and the Ometeotl I want to see Mexico free and democratic and watch the news without hearing about my people risking their lives hopping that boarder to get to a land of freedom. What do you mean Extreamist are no good? you saying that Zapata and villa were no good? Hermano no te entiendo. please help me understand where you stand, I dont want to fight my own people. Ane iuan Cualli Tonalli Xalisco and may Tonantzin watch over you Edited by ITZOCELOTL |
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"It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees"
-Emiliano Zapata- |
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Jalisco Lancer
Sultan
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 07-Aug-2004 Location: Mexico Online Status: Offline Posts: 2112 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 16-Jan-2006 at 13:56 |
Buddie, very few Codixes survived to the destruction at the hands fo the spaniards. Many of them were written after the conquest of Mexico. Cuahutemoc was appointed militar Chief, but not Huey Tlatoani. He was nephew of Moctezuma II and was in charge of the defense during the short live rule of Cuitlahuac. The mexicas fought for the defense of their empire and their city. The idealized idea of the the mexicans fighting agaisnt the spaniard conquistadores is not realistic. The empire dominated most of Mesoamerica with the exceptions of Yucatan, Tlaxcala and western Mexico. The mexicas were defeated by Cortes after he realized the enormous anger towards the Mexicas. Huexotzingas, Cholultecas, Totonacas, Tlaxcaltecas allied to the Spaniards sieged the city and defeated to the mexicas after months of famine, isolation and illnes. Spaniards were saw as liberators at that time for many city-states. Later on, the mexicas , tlaxcaltecas and eastern nahuas were used to defeat to the purepechas, chichimecas, caxcanes and mayas. I'm merely a Mexican aware of his real national history. History has no good or bad guys, just historical players. Now, it is undeniable that modern Mexico has spaniard roots, we liked or not, and a strong mesoamerican heritage. That's what I stand. I do not like nationalisms or fake historical facts to idealize our nationality. Point I'm trying to make is that our national history is deeper and one of the richest ones. 30 Centuries from the Mother Culture ( Olmec ) up today. Our history is more just than the aztec empire. Aztecs lived on the Valley of Mexico for only 200 years. Villa and Zapata ? That is a gap of 400 years, buddie. Indeed many of our countrymen are ashamed of being partial indian and ignore the glorious past of our nation. On which place to do you put to other historical personalities that gave Mexico its independence ? Mexico after the aztecs survived to 7 foreing invasions. We had more presidents than all the other latin american republics together. However, I have had read many manifiestos from La Voz de Aztlan, MECHA , La Raza and many others in the other side of the border. They are a bunch of misinformed guys creating an artificial identity and divulging an artificial historic view. I stand on the side were the knowledge about our national history has placed us. Proudly to eat tortillas, drink either brandy or Tequila and I like a lot the Corridas de Toros, I pray to our Lady of Guadalupe. That's what is about. I concurr with you. I also hope the day that the word indigena or indio will be erased form our vocabulary, because all of us are sons of Mexico. Saludos Edited by Jalisco Lancer |
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Posted: 30-Jan-2006 at 17:00 |
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to add my 5 cents to this i think that for too long we have rejected our indigenous roots and we were forced to assimilate and we are now what we are. we should again embrace our native culture and spirituality, that of ometeotl, mother earth and father sky, the four elements and four directions. love ourselves, our brothers and sisters and be thankful for what mother earth and the dieties have given us. itzocelotl tinocniuh quen tica? i understand how u feel brother, it wasn't too long ago that i felt that same way. what helped me out a lot was speaking to my temachtiani and other elders and also my rebirth in the sweat lodge or temascal. you should look into some circulos de hombres in LA man, i'm in San Diego and over here i'm part of an organization called Izcalli and part of its circulo de hombres. the temascal would help you out a lot tho, especially with understanding who you are and what your role is in this indigenous reawakening. look into it brother. mexica tiahui totzticate, s1 |
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ITZOCELOTL
Knight
Joined: 22-Dec-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 84 |
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Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 17:55 |
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Thanks Subversive 1. Jalisco I am not saying that the only history of Mexico is the "Mexicatl empire". I know that our history starts with the Olmecs. then the toltecs, teotihuacanos and more. But Jalisco you have to admit the Mexicatl empire time period played the biggest role in forging the Mexico of today. Zapata spoke Nahuatl and fought for Mexican rights over the Creoles and Mexicans who denied their Mexican roots.Of course I honor my ansectors the Olmecs. Plus here is somthing that clearly states the Cuauhtemoc was not only chief of Military but also Emperor Cuauhtemoc: The last Aztec emperor, an historical novel (Unknown Binding) here is the link: Amazon.com Cuauhtemoc The last Aztec emperor,an historical novel (Unknown Binding) I dont know how much more proof you need, unless you will also go against scholars, and writers. Submersive 1 you are truly wise, can you teach me some Mexican(Nahuatl)? I have learned a little bit but I want to learn enough to engage in a full conversation. Also hey Submersive are you Ometeoist? because I am, I see you worship the Ometeotl and our beloved mother earth spirit Tonantzin or Gudelupe. I have been to Izcalli website but I dont know much about. Edited by ITZOCELOTL |
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"It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees"
-Emiliano Zapata- |
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Guests
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Posted: 04-Feb-2006 at 10:29 |
I don't think that's true, I think modern Mexico was forged between 1800 and 1950. First there was the War of Independence that created Mexican independence. The constitution of 1824 introduced federalism, but for decades after that Mexico was in constant turmoil. This period did see the final of federalism over centralism (a system that, considering Mexican geography, simply wasn't possible) and gave Mexico it's present borders. They revolution of Ayutla and the Reforma brought separation between church and state and secularism. This period also brought national unity, which was made clear in the republican victory during the French intervention. The main heritage of the Porfiriato is the strong presidential power, which is IMO not as good a heritage as the previous things I mentioned. The Mexican Revolution finally brought the current political and social-economic system. While the Mexica empire certainly had it's influence (mainly cultural) I think the period between 1800 and 1950 was more important (especially politically and socially), for it brought the independence, federalism, unity, secularism, etc. It is true that that the natives still are underrepresented and that the rights aren't as respected as they are supposed to be, but I think giving them a better place in the Mexico of today is a better solution than going back to the Mexico of 1519. Many of the post-1800 achievements are too valuable to get rid of. |
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ITZOCELOTL
Knight
Joined: 22-Dec-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 84 |
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Posted: 04-Feb-2006 at 14:30 |
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yea mixcoatl thats what I meant culturally. Of course 1800-1950 was the period when Mexico stopped being an empire and went for a democratic government. I definetly agree that Mexicos democratic government was forged in 1800-1950. But if it wasnt for our time period during 1325-1521 we wouldnt know much about our true ancestors. During the Mexicatl empire hundreds of codix were written than destroyed by Spaniards. After the conquest many codix were written once again by Mexicans with the help of Spanish preists. So our knowledge during the Empire helped us know who our ancestors really are and presearve true Mexican history and culture from the Olmecs to the Mexicatl empire. But yea Mixcoatl you are right, when Mexicos "old" government during 1325-1521 was a emperial government, or Feudal government, or what ever you want to call it was definetly changed during 1800-1950 and was the time that our "OLD" government was replaced when the Roman-Greek ideals of governing came to our country. But still our government is very corrupt today, why do you think thousands of Mexicans flee to USA everyday. On the news it is always the same story Mexicans invading USA!!! BLAH! BLAH! BLAH! go back to Mexico!! Just like Japan when they were a Feudal government ruled by Shoguns and Samurais. Then the Americans and Europeans opened trade with Japan. Then Japan changed their government to a Democratic/westernized government and got rid of the Shoguns and Samurais. Just because during that time Japan changed into a modern nation doesnt mean that ancient and medieval Japan didnt play a role in forging the Japan today. How could La voz de Aztlan be wrong Jalisco? maybe I missed somthing bad they said, but do you think it is right for people to murder Mexicans in USA? just because they are searching for a better life? Voz de Aztlan is just concerned in protecting their brothers and sisters.
uring but if it wasnt for the time of 1325-1521, I wouldnt be eating tortillas and beans mostly everday, Mole and Posole during celebrations, I wouldnt celebrate Miccailhuitontli-day of the dead, and I wouldnt know anything about my motherlands history during and between 1200B.C to 1521A.D. I wouldnt take shots of Tequila during celebrations. I wouldnt listen to Jarocho, Norteno, and Marichi because Jarocho and Mariachi are a blend of Mexican and European sounds, I wouldnt play Tlachtli and know what Ometeoism is and I wouldnt know who Tonantzin was, I wouldnt know what Mexican(nahuatl) is. I would probably be exaclty the same as Spaniard today culturally. And plus, all Mexicans in Mexico should be called native regardless if they are Meztizo, or full blooded Mexicans, Of course I dont think we should establish the government we had during 1325-1521 but we should all come together as "Mexicatl" and call our selves "native" "indigenous" regardless if we are Meztizo or 100% Mexican. I hate when the Mexican government labels Mexicans who still speak Nahuatl "indios" and inferior. The govenrment denies them rights and discrimanates them. The government tries to seperate the Mexicans who speak Spanish from the Mexicans who still speak Mexican (Nahuatl). Plus places in the Mexican government are mostly held by Spaniards or Spaniards who were born in Mexico, Mexican who think like Spaniards, and european people. I am Indigenous, Native, no matter if I am Meztizo or 100% Mexican! Tlazohcamati Mexico Tiahui! Itzocelotl. Edited by ITZOCELOTL |
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"It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees"
-Emiliano Zapata- |
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Yum Kaax Pakal
Janissary 
Joined: 05-Feb-2006 Location: Mexico Online Status: Offline Posts: 28 |
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Posted: 10-Feb-2006 at 18:23 |
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I'm a proud patriotic mexican, and im mayan blooded. I have lived in Mxico all my life and im very proud of it. I really think that one way to get out Mxico from the missery (sorry but its true) in wich it is envolved, is by promoving the patriotism (thing that only happens with soccer) and encouraging the presence of our precolombine past. I think mexicans should knew about our esplendorous fathers and mothers, so everybody can realize what kind of blood we have within. I had studied in a catholic school, mayoritly controlled by spaniards, and i have to say that the most repugnant thing i have ever heard was when a spanish priest said: "if we hadnt came, you will still be running in taparrabos".. Lets be proud of Mxico! Dont let extranjeros and gringos make fun of us! Lets all make Cuahutemoc's dream real! No dejemos que Mxico siga cayendo en agujero al que le han arrastrado los politicos, los corruptos, los vendepatrias y los indiferentes! Podemos sacar a nuestro paas adelante y regresarle el glorioso esplendor que tuvo alguna vez encarnado en el comun espiritu de Tollan, Tenochtitlan, Palenque, Uxmal, Tres Zapotes, Tzintzuntzan y todos los grandes reinos que habitaron en nuestra tierra! Sorry for writting it in spanish..i just passion my self. |
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TONEYO, TOTAHUCA MEXICA!!
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ITZOCELOTL
Knight
Joined: 22-Dec-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 84 |
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Posted: 10-Feb-2006 at 20:33 |
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Zimon! yum kaxx and then after Mexico is back to "normal" and sees Cuauhtemocs propchecy come true we will take Chiapas, Yucatan, Belize, and Guatamala and put it together and create a Mayan nation for you guys. That would be Chincon! A modern democratic Mexican nation and a modern democratic Mayan nation then will will go on to Chile for the incas! Well if Mayans want to unite they need to create 1, one, uno, ce, un, language that they could all speak and understand. Their is 12 Mayan dialects! no wonder Mayans arent united, they should just combine all the dialects into one language.
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"It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees"
-Emiliano Zapata- |
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Cuauhtemoc
Pretorian 
Joined: 10-Feb-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 198 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 11-Feb-2006 at 00:47 |
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I am proud to be a Mexican, however we have to be realistic about our history. We should be proud of who we are, and I know that has been expressed eloquently by Jalisco Lancer and all who have posted, but the fact is our culture is not only Native American but European. That may be unfortunate but it is a fact of life and history. Yes that life was forced upon us, however we should not live in the past. Every time I read of the conquest, I always hope the outcome would be different! I am saddened, crestfallen at the fall of Tayasal! I too would love to see more pride about our Native American roots and I promote that to those around me. Education is the realistic key for that. However to restore Aztec or Native American gods that failed our people in the past is nonsense. Cuautemoc was a war chief, not a prophet! He had hopes like us and he was a threat to Cortez and the spaniards and that is why he was killed. I am not suggesting the god of the spaniards is the Creator GOD. We know the defeat of the Mexica empire was a result of rebellion from other native cultures as well as the devastating affects of desease brought by the Europeans. Aztec and other Native American cultures are a part of our Mexican heritage and all must be embraced. My heart beats with pride with the beating of Aztec drums and dancers and the imprints of native culture in our land. I long to learn Nahuatl and I plan and hope to do so soon. So we must maintain pride in our culture but remember that the issues of the world will not wait for the sixth sun. The world is changing always and the issues of our day is what we must deal with. Education must be promoted, it is the answer for survival of our culture. We must maintain a presence of who we are as a people and NEVER disappear. To live in the past would be like hoping and wishing that Orthodox Constantinople for example, would not have fallen after a seige by the Ottoman Turks, with the subsequent slaughter and enslavement that followed, as well as the forcing of Islam upon the survivors(sound familiar)! To hope and some Greeks do, that the Orthodox would retake it is simply unrealistic. I concurr with all of you that we must be proud of who we are and forge a future that will include OUR PRESENCE! Yum Kaxx and Itzocelotl, it would be wonderful for a Maya or Native American democratic nation to develope! We deserve that! Maybe that is what this discussion should address and how that can be acheived peacefully. |
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Jalisco Lancer
Sultan
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 07-Aug-2004 Location: Mexico Online Status: Offline Posts: 2112 |
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Posted: 13-Feb-2006 at 10:38 |
Yum, I am a Mexican as well. But also part of the AE Staff. As a new member, I would like to bring to your attention that there are rules in place to avoid naming others nationality by using words as gringos. I do understand your passion,but please refrain yourself of using other language than english. On this way, other forumers can discuss and reply on the topic. If you would like to open a discussion in Spanish. Please knidly open a new topic at Non English Board. Regards to All. |
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Maju
King 
Joined: 14-Jul-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 6565 |
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Posted: 13-Feb-2006 at 12:38 |
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I'm not Mexican but I think that Gringo is such a colloquial term in
Spanish, particularly in Latin America that it can hardly be considered
offensive.
Also the alternatve names, such as Unitedstatians or Nordamericans or Anglos don't seem to be of their like either, anyhow.  |
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NO GOD, NO MASTER! |
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Jalisco Lancer
Sultan
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 07-Aug-2004 Location: Mexico Online Status: Offline Posts: 2112 |
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Posted: 13-Feb-2006 at 13:57 |
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you are correct, Maju. That word came from the Colonial times. But still, need to avoid people get offended and complaince with AE rules. Regards |
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Maju
King
Joined: 14-Jul-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 6565 |
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Posted: 14-Feb-2006 at 09:06 |
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In fact it comes from the US invasion of Mexico... gringo comes from
the slogan "green go home" (the blue uniforms were so weared off that
they looked green).
But almost nobody remembers the origin. I think it is a correct term and I have never been admonished for using it, I must say. |
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NO GOD, NO MASTER! |
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Guests
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Posted: 14-Feb-2006 at 13:33 |
If I'm not mistaken the word gringo is older. It was already used in southern Spain in the 1820's. It meant 'foreigner' and was probably derived from griego (Greek). |
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Yum Kaax Pakal
Janissary
Joined: 05-Feb-2006 Location: Mexico Online Status: Offline Posts: 28 |
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Posted: 14-Feb-2006 at 15:32 |
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Im sorry for such bother...i will regulate my language. Thanks everyone. Cuahutemoc lives!!
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TONEYO, TOTAHUCA MEXICA!!
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Jalisco Lancer
Sultan
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 07-Aug-2004 Location: Mexico Online Status: Offline Posts: 2112 |
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Posted: 14-Feb-2006 at 15:43 |
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No bother at all, amigo 
Saludos |
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well said Jalisco...
! I was so pissed for the comment that i stood up and gave him a little lesson of history, just for him to realize how they stole everything of us!
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