QuoteReplyTopic: The greatest Medival King Posted: 27-Jan-2006 at 08:30
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Frederick II was a champion, he gets my vote. I can't find it in that wikipaedia article, but I believe he was once excommunicated for lauching a crusade (he was showing up the Pope).
From wikipedia
The Crusade
At the time he was crowned Emperor, Frederick had promised to go on crusade. In preparation for his crusade, Frederick had, in 1225, married Yolande of Jerusalem, heiress to the Kingdom of Jerusalem, and immediately taken steps to take control of the Kingdom from his new father-in-law, John of Brienne. However, he continued to take his time in setting off, and in 1227, Frederick was excommunicated by Pope Gregory IX for failing to honor his crusading pledge - perhaps unfairly, at this point, as his plans had been delayed by an epidemic. He eventually embarked on the crusade the following year (1228), which was seen on by the pope as a rude provocation, since the church could not take any part in the honor for the crusade, resulting in a second excommunication. Frederick did not attempt to take Jerusalem by force of arms. Instead, he negotiated restitution of Jerusalem, Nazareth, and Bethlehem to the Kingdom with sultan Al-Kamil, the Ayyubid ruler of the region, who was nervous about possible war with his relatives who ruled Syria and Mesopotamia and wished to avoid further trouble from the Christians. The crusade ended in a truce and in Frederick's coronation as King of Jerusalem on March 18, 1229 although this was technically improper, as Frederick's wife Yolande, the heiress, had died in the meantime, leaving their infant son Conrad as rightful heir to the kingdom. Frederick's further attempts to rule over the Kingdom of Jerusalem were met by resistance on the part of the barons, led by John of Ibelin, Lord of Beirut. By the mid-1230s, Frederick's viceroy had been forced to leave Acre, the capital, and by 1244, Jerusalem itself had been lost again to a new Muslim offensive.
However, Frederick's seeming bloodless victory in recovering Jerusalem for the cross brought him great prestige in Europe, and in 1231 the pope rescinded Frederick's excommunication; this event is known as the Peace of San Germano.
Frederick II was a champion, he gets my vote.
I can't find it in that wikipaedia article, but I believe he was once excommunicated for lauching a crusade (he was showing up the Pope).
I could only say that one of the best was Veliki Zupan Stefan Nemanja. I'm not just telling this because he ruled in the country I'm from, I'm telling this because during his reign Raska (first Serbian medieval state) advanced greatly in every way. That was not just because his skills as military commander but also because of his diplomatic skills. He managed to deminish Serbian dependence from Byzantium.
In Frederick II we encounter one of the most remarkable personalities in world history. His contemporaries called him stupor mundi, the "wonder" or, more precisely, the "astonishment" "of the world"; the majority of his contemporaries, subscribing to medieval religious orthodoxy, under which the doctrines promulgated by the Church were supposed to be uniform and universal, were, indeed astonished not seldom repelled by the highly developed individual consciousness of the Hohenstaufen emperor, his temperamental stubbornness and his unorthodox, nearly unstoppable thirst for knowledge.
Frederick II was a religious sceptic. He is said to have denounced Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad as all being frauds and deceivers of mankind. He delighted in uttering blasphemies and making mocking remarks directed toward Christian sacraments and beliefs. Frederick's religious scepticism was most unusual for the era in which he lived, and to his contemporaries, highly shocking and scandalous. In his period in Jerusalem, this behaviour was much to the dislike of the Muslims too, who grew mistrustful of a Christian which was not a Christian.
The birth of Frederick II
Even his birth was remarkable. According to chronicles from the era, in order to stanch any doubt about his origin, the already 40-year old Constance gave birth to the child publicly in a marketplace. After Henry VI, his father, died at 31, Frederick came under the guardianship of the pope, which the latter, however, neglected him on the basis of power-politics. In Palermo, where the three-year-old boy was brought after his mother's death, he grew up like a street youth. On his own, he roamed a city which swarmed with adventurers and pirates, beggars and jugglers, Arab and Jewish merchants. The only benefit from Innocent III was that at 14 years of age he married a 25-year-old widow named Constance, the daughter of the king of Aragon in what is now Spain. As it happened, both seemed reasonably happy with the arrangement, and Constance soon bore a son, Henry.
Later, it appeared opportune to Innocent III to support Frederick as a legitimate king, in order to counter the Emperor Otto whom up to that time the pope had supported. In 1212 he brought him to Rome, gave him a round of instruction in things political, and sent him, provided with a bull of excommunication against the Guelph Otto, in the direction of Germany. The voyage seemed difficult, as the sea was roamed by the ships of Pisa, as usual faithful to the official emperor, and the road north to Rome were commanded by imperial garrisons. But in that period of his life a kind of mystic and prophetical luck seemed to illuminate every step made by the young king.
Frederick managed to reach Liguria with ships sent by the fiercest rival of Pisa, Genova, where he stayed for three months. He crossed the Alps using the most difficult passes, as the Brenner Pass was occupied by the enemy troops of the duchies of Merano and Bavaria, and then he came to Konstanz in territory of the archbishop of Chur. The city was in fact preparing to receive the emperor, and would not allow the new aspirant to the imperial title to remain in the city. However, after a solemn reading of the pope's Bull of Excommunication, the gates of the city were opened for him. Otto, who meanwhile had waited in berlingen for the ferry, came three weeks later before the city gates and was turned away. Frederick conquered the realm by means of generous promises and donations, without spilling a drop of blood. Otto, crushed in the Battle of Bouvines by the French, died some years later, a lonely man in the Harzburg, while Frederick would be crowned Emperor in Rome by the pope. In his coronation, too, he showed how unusual he was. At his coronation he carried a brand-new, red coronation robe with a strange ornamentation at the edge. In reality it was an Arabic inscription, which indicated that this robe dated from the year 528, not by the Christian but by Muslim calendar! About this was an Arab benediction: "May the Emperor be received well, may he enjoy vast prosperity, great generosity and high splendor, fame and magnificent endowments, and the fulfillment of his wishes and hopes. May his days and nights go in pleasure without end or change". This coronation robe can be found today in the Schatzkammer of the Kunsthistorisches Museum in Vienna.
This was typical of him: while he was being crowned by the Pope to be the highest defender of the Christian faith, his coat referred to the history of Islam. And not only that. He did not exterminate the Saracens of Sicily with fire and sword; on the contrary, he allowed them to settle on the mainland and even to build mosques. Not least, he enlisted them in his - Christian - army and even into his personal bodyguards. As these were Muslim soldiers, they were immune from papal excommunication. These among others are reasons that Frederick II is listed as a representative member of the sixth region of Dante's Inferno, The Heretics who are burned in tombs.
A further example of how much he differed from his contemporaries was his Crusade in the Holy Land. Outside Jerusalem, with the power to take it, he parlayed five months with the EgyptianSultan al-Kamil about the surrender of the city. The Sultan summoned him into Jerusalem and entertained him in the most lavish fashion. When the muezzin, out of consideration for Frederick, failed to make the morning call to prayer, the emperor declared: "I stayed overnight in Jerusalem, in order to overhear the prayer call of the Muslims and their worthy God". The Saracens had a good opinion of him, so it was no surprise that after five months Jerusalem was handed over to him, taking advantage of the war difficulties of al-Kamil. The fact that this was regarded in the Arab as in the Christian world as high treason did not matter to him one whit. As the Patriarch of Jerusalem refused to crown him king, he set the crown on his own head.
Besides his great tolerance (which, however, did not apply to Christian heretics), he had an unlimited thirst for knowledge and learning. To the horror of his contemporaries, he simply did not believe things that could not be explained by reason. So he forbade trials by ordeal on the firm conviction that in a duel the stronger would always win, whether he was guilty or not. Also, it can be forgotten amidst the general enthusiasm over his book on falconry releases frequently that he also wrote a scientific book about birds or that many of his laws continue to affect life down to the present day, such as the prohibition on physicians acting as their own pharmacists. This was a blow at the charlatanism under which physicians diagnosed dubious maladies and also at the same time in order to sell a useless, even dangerous "cure".
Frederick's greatest passion were animals, and falcons in particular. He inherited his love for falconry from his Norman ancestors. According to a source, Frederick replied to a letter in which the Mongol khan invited him to submit that he was keen to do it, provided he was permitted to become the khan's hawker. He mantained up to 50 hawkers a time for his court, and in his letters he requested the acquiring of Arctic gerfalcons from Lbeck and even from Greenland. He commissioned the translation of the treaty De arte venandi cum avibus, by the Arab Moamyn, to his Syrian astrologer Theodor, but he corrected or rewrote it during the endless siege of Faenza. This implies that the Emperor knew the Arab language very well. Frederick picked up information from many of the philosphers then known, and mainly from the De Animalibus by Aristotle, creating a really noteworthy scientific work for the time it was written. One of the two existing versions was modified by his son Manfred, also a keen adherent of falconry. Frederick loved exotic animals in general: his mobile zoo, with which he used to impress the cold cities of Northern Italy and Europe, included hounds, elephants, giraffes, cheetahs, lynxs, leopards and exotic birds. In 1232 he sent the Egyptian sultan a rare white bear, in exchange for a planetary worth 20,000 marks: Frederick was in fact attracted by stars, and his court was full of astrologers and astronomers. He often issued letters to the main scholars of the time (not only in Europe) asking for solutions to questions of science, mathematics and physics.
A Damascene chronicler, Sibt ibn al-Jawzi, leaves a physical description of Frederick based on the testimony of those who had seen the emperor in person in Jerusalem. "The Emperor was covered with red hair, was bald and myopic. Had he been a slave, he would not have fetched 200 dirhams at market." His eyes were described variously as blue, or "green like those of a serpent".
....
Frederick II was considered singular among the European Christian monarchs of the Middle Ages. This was observed even in his own time, although many of his contemporaries, because of his lifelong interest in Islam saw in him "the Hammer of Christianity", or at the very least a dissenter from Christendom. Many modern medievalists view this as false, and hold that Frederick understood himself as a Christian monarch in the sense of a Byzantine emperor, thus as God's Viceroy on earth. Other scholars view him as holding all religion in contempt, citing his rationalism and penchant for blasphemy. Whatever his personal feelings toward religion were, certainly submission to the pope did not enter into the matter. This was in line with the Hohenstaufen Kaiseridee: the ideology, claiming the Holy Roman Emperor to be the legitimate successor to the Roman emperors.
Modern treatments of Frederick vary from sober evaluation (Strner) to hero worship (Ernst Kantorowicz). However, all in all, agreement prevails over the special significance of Frederick II as Holy Roman Emperor, even if some of his actions (such as his politics with respect to Germany) remain quite dubious.
My favourite Medival King is certainly a Hungarian, St. Ladislaus.
He stabilized the Kingdom of Hungary, won in a civil war, won against one Oguz and three Cuman invasion, occupied Croatia, and he was the ideal of the Hungarian knights.
I'm a bit surprised no one has mentioned Henry V of England. Sure, a lot of his "greatness" comes from being immortalized by Shakespeare but I really think he deserves a place near the top of the rankings.
Before even coming to the throne, he proved his military capabilities fighting first against Hotspur and later Owain Glyndwr and the Welsh. By the time he was king, he faced an unhappy, divided England. By pardoning the heirs of the men who had fought with his father, Henry gradually gained loyalty, ending the quasi-anarchy that had characterized his father's reign, and creating a new spirit of nationalism. He was also extremely considerate of his poorer subjects, making him a hero with the populace.
Of course, Henry's main challenge was to reestablish England's position as one of great countries of Europe. This he did by claiming France as his. Once again, he showed his military brilliance, defeating the much larger French forces and succeeding in doing what generations of monarchs had failed at: the unification of the French and English crowns.
Henry also gets credit for helping end the Great Schism by securing the election of Pope Martin V. This obviously put England back on the map and gave Henry a prominent position in Christendom, which allowed him to make plans for a Crusade.
Perhaps he died too young for us to really tell if he belongs among the greats. But I think he at least deserves a mention.
Guess all that Carolingian Renaissance thing is just a load of bollocks, then...
Yes and no, depends on what you expect of this renaissance. Compared with the Italian renaissance of the late middle ages, the Carolingian one was nothing more than a passing fling with the fine culture of Antiquity, by the semi-civilized, Frankish warrior aristocracy.
Describing Charlemagne as a "barbarian butcher" is wee bit too harsh for my tastes. Of course he was a warrior, the only ones who can't be described as butchers at this point are the monks. Charlemagne did attempt to gain some mastery of letters, but as he began his education as such a late age as he did, he never advanced much. A civilizing influence nonetheless, quite outstanding for his time.
Even though I already vouched for Emperor Frederick II Hohenstaufen as greatest medieval potentate, Charlemagne is IMO also a good candidate, others could be Otto I (the great), Philip II August of France, Roger II of the Two Sicilies, or Baldwin I of Jerusalem (a cunning bastard).
Charlemagne was a barbarian butcher, nothing else, no culture at all.
but he is a shining example ,for he did the only right thing with the saxons.
i would like to do it as well ,if i hear them talking today. the most shocking idiom in the german language.
Once Bla III became crowned king he never again used the name Alexios.
His
years in Byzantium had been well spent. He observed how efficiently
organized the Greek Empire was. Administration, finances, the army and
diplomacy were part of a smoothly running machine controlled by the
emperor. Internal and external affairs were coordinated. This foreign
world was rich in customs and institutions, far ahead of his native
country. To King Bla the adoption of some of these institutions were
imperative if Hungary was to catch up with the more progressive
European nations.
Bla had great reforms in mind, but once on
the Hungarian throne his expectations turned into great
disappointments. If he sought unanimous affection, he did not get it,
not even from his own family. The reason? Many held that he had become
"Byzan-
28
tinized" in Greece. His own mother regarded
him as a stranger, since she would have preferred that her younger son
Gza, whom she had educated, had become king. Church leaders were not
enthusiastic about him because of a rumor that Bla and his French
wife, Anne of Antioch, had been converted to the Eastern Orthodox
faith. The mere fact that he had returned accompanied by Greek troops
aroused suspicions that his loyalty was divided between Hungary and
Byzantium.
It took a long time for Bla to consolidate his
situation - and he paid heavily for it. He banished his mother to
Greece where she spent the rest of her life in a cloister. He
imprisoned his younger brother Gza for a period of twelve years. The
priests refused to support him until he furnished evidence of being a
true son of the Catholic Church.
Toward Byzantium he applied the
Greeks' own weapon, the art of dissimulation, which he had learned
while living at the Imperial Court. This enabled him to fend off
Manuel's attempts to make Hungary a Greek vassal state, while
skillfully managing to maintain cordial relations with the Greek
Emperor, toward whom he felt gratitude and affection. While Manuel
lived, Bla made no offensive moves against Byzantium, and even sent
him an army in his war against the Turks. When Manuel died, however,
Bla hastened to re-unite Sirmium and Dalmatia with the Hungarian
Kingdom, executing a contingency plan which lay ready in his drawer for
this re-conquest. These provinces had been wrested from Hungary by
Manuel decades before.
Otherwise, Bla never aspired for the
laurels of war. He even insisted, in self-mockery, that he was too much
of a coward to fight a war. In reality, he was the brightest
European king of his century and laid the foundations of a Hungarian
Empire during his reign which lasted from 1172 to 1196.
All
this growth was, of course, gradual, but it soon enabled Hungary to
meet any of her neighbours on at least equal terms. In fact, after the
accession of Ladislas I, nothing was heard for a long time of German
claims to overlordship. Later, the Emperor Manuel Comnenus made
pertinacious efforts to establish suzerainty over Hungary, which he
invaded no less than ten times in twenty-two years; but although
vexatious, his attempts never seriously threatened Hungarian
independence. After 1100, indeed, it was more often the Hungarian kings who intervened in their neighbours' affairs,
than the converse. Both Klmn and Stephen II intervened repeatedly in
various Russian principalities. Bla III, who had been brought up at
the Byzantine court and destined by Manuel, before his marriage, for
his heir, ended by turning the tables, and although he did not succeed
in acquiring the imperial crown, the lustre of his own easily outshone that of Manuel's successors. He largely dominated the Balkans and also, for a while, exercised sovereignty over Halics.[4] Hungary in his day was almost, or quite, the leading power in south-eastern Europe.
Symbolic of this was the fact that while his predecessors' consorts had
most often been the daughters of Polish, Russian or Balkan prince-lets,
Bla's father-in-law was the king of France himself. An interesting document - the statement of his revenues -sent by Bla to his prospective father-in-law during the marriage negotiations, shows that these were equal to those of his English and French contemporaries and inferior only to those of the two Emperors.
An interesting hungarian king Bla III ( whom originaly Manuel I Comnenus intended as his successor ,Manuel I Comnenus was half hungarian ,son of Piroska, daughter of King Lszlo the Saint of Hungary )
In
the six decades following the reign of Bla the Blind, certain motifs
returned tediously as if on a merry-go-round: disputes around the
throne, military campaigns with mixed success, the peaceable and
combative marching of the Crusaders across the land, and all the rest.
But on balance, everything was largely positive, particularly under
Bla III (1172-1196), whose first wife was Anne de Chatillon and the
second Margaret Capet. These two women introduced the French style at
the court, where Frederick Barbarossa was received in a manner worthy
of his rank. With the king as their example, the barons increasingly
followed the fashion trends of Europe, which to no small extent
contributed to Hungary's participation in world commerce. However, Bla
III's son, Andrew II (1205-1235), was, in contrast to his puritanical
and staid father, a rollicking, lavish, ambitious, and happy-go-lucky
young man. He engaged in an ill-fated war on Russian soil and - the
first Hungarian king to do so - he undertook his "own" Crusade. He did
so purely on borrowed money, and he gave the long-Hungarian Zra
(Zadar) to Venice instead of paying charges for ship rentals. He
actually reached the Holy Land through Cyprus, but he ran out of
resources before he could fight a real battle with the infidels.
Under
the reign of BELA III (1172-1192) Hungary became the leading power in
Central Europe, extending its frontiers beyond the Carpathians and well
into the Balkan Peninsula and the Adriatic coast. He maintained close
family, cultural and political ties with France and ruled wisely over a
nation which presented the best characteristics of a universal European
culture, having assimilated the best of Italian, French, German and
Byzantine contributions.
Source: Bodolai, Z.: The Timeless Nation - The History, Literature, Music, Art And Folklore of the Hungarian Nation THE CROSS AND THE SWORD - (Christian Hungary under the Arpad kings: 1000-1301) http://www.hungarian-history.hu/lib/timeless/index.htm
His
remains were the only to be identified by archeologists exactly after
the excavations at the ruins of the former crowning and burial
cathedral of the rpds in Szkesfehrvr in the late XIXth century,
due to his enormous body height documented by contemporary sources.
Based on the examination of his skeleton he must have been over two
meters tall, a really outstanding height at that time. After this he
has been reinterred at the Mathias Church in Budapest, with his second
wife Agnes. Through his son Andrew II, he is the ancestor of Edward
III of England through Isabella of France. He is therefore an ancestor
to the present-day British royal family including Queen Elizabeth II.
Discussing who's the "very best" of the medieval kings I suspect will be fruitless, one of the greatest however, was undoubtedly Frederick II of Hohenstaufen. An intellectual born ahead of his time, Frederick would probably have been more at home in renaissance Europe than the high medieval world of ignorance and religious superstitions. As such, he is IMO far greater than those who achieved their greatness solely trough mere military might. Indeed, Frederick is as far as I know the only one in history to have conquered Jerusalem without shedding a single drop of blood.
Excellent, another member of the " Frederik, Stupor Mundi" appreciation society. The great man would have been my first choice as well, but then I would have been accused of nationalist bias, which is however not the reason I would have chosen him. But for those that are mentioned above.
Absolutely, leaving national biases aside, he is the most impressive ruler of medieval Europe, due to his intelligence and education. Other notables that I'd consider would be Charlemagne, Harun al-Rashid and Tang Taizong.
What is history but a fable agreed upon?
Napoleon Bonaparte
Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi
Hmmmm... my vote goes to William of Normandy, if the impact of his conquest of England during the 1000s is the base, He made a great foundation to make England one of the mighty countries until now...
Friederich II Hohenstaufen rocks. For this period I would name him along with Portugal's King Dinis (this is not a nationalistic choice, read about him and you will understand) and maybe Louis XI.
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