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stunning speech on how to destroy America

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  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: stunning speech on how to destroy America
    Posted: 06-Jan-2006 at 01:47
hugoestr I will do this- I said there were some points I agreed with him but after reading more about the character of this man and what he stands for I do not like all that he said. I should have only posted the points I stand for. Rereading the initial article I realized that there were some of his points which are wrong as well.
Of course I do not agree with shutting down immigration or regulating child birth, that is a choice.
I have not read "Mexifornia" so I do not know if I will make a judgement until I have read the book but California has changed in the last 20 years.
I also do not believe in excluding other language or English only but English should be the language which unifies us. English only would be stupid though because it would take funds away from Native Americans who want to learn their ancestral language. I do have a bit of Native American ancestry so I am sympathetic to their right to keep their culture alive.
Give me time to read it over and we can work out our differences and maybe set a good example to the Greeks and Turks-
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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jan-2006 at 02:47

I will say this, if a culture is changed its called adaptation, its how the strongest of species survive.  If one were to never change one would become complacent and weak.  Thats not good.  Poeple shoudnt be forced to assimilate either, but if they dont assimiate they shouldnt except anything at all from society.  By how things work naturally not assimilating will completely handicap someone as it is so they really arent very threatening.

 

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  Quote Loknar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jan-2006 at 04:33

No they should be forced to assimilate. I'm not talking about forcibly telling them to, but I think when we have drivers ed books in Vietnamese there is a problem.

Hell, my voter registration form came in the other and some of it is in CHINESE. WHAT THE HELLA RE WE DOING?

I see no reason why this should in Chinese. If important documents were entirely in English..in other words, if these people were forced to learn English out of necessity then things would work out OK. And furthermore, their culture would contribute to the American culture over all as they integrate. As a new group of people integrate our culture changes, but it is a universal change. What we see in the west of the US is very disturbing.

All because people want to be liberal and say "no we cant do that, its racist."

The people who say this are dangerous.

What if 2 culture groups develop in this country and it divides us?

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  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jan-2006 at 05:08
Loknar, How can you force assimilation? you talk about  forcing people but how can you?  Even if you banned other languages it doesnt kill them off. People will still be themselves at home; eating whatever food, believing in whatever traditions and speaking any language they want. All you can ask for is window dressing the streets to suit your own ethnic bias.

when my government goes to all that trouble for a multilingual tv channel, radio stations and most of its publications i become proud, not scared
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jan-2006 at 08:46
Originally posted by loknar


1 language, 1 People, 1 Culture.

I really don't like to draw comparisons with nazism, but I have a hard time assuming this doesn't refer to "1 people, 1 land, 1 leader" (Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fhrer).

Originally posted by eaglecap


His points were not just about illegal immigration but also the threat of taking multiculturalism to an extreme so as to create, as Michael Savage says, a chamber pot vs. the melting pot.

Could you explain what you mean by 'extreme multiculturalism'? What's the difference between extreme and normal multiculturalism?

Originally posted by pikeshot

New immigrant communities have always retained their languages for a time, and have moved into English in later generations.

That's true, and there's something I like to add.
Nowadays it has become 'fashinable' (it's not the correct word, but I don't know a better one), to 'go back to your roots'. This is not only true for first generation immigrants, but also for other Americans. Just take a look at this forum: Thegeneral has a picture in his signature saying he's "a proud German", Eaglecap often tells het feels affinity with Greece and in the 'introduce yourself' thread I have seen more Dutch Americans than 'real' Dutch. And there is nothing wrong with that, I even think it's positive. The point I want to make here, is that people have no problems with Xth generation immigrants going back to their roots and exploring their 'home cutlure', while they start panicking when first generation immigrants don't want to give up their own culture.
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  Quote flyingzone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jan-2006 at 09:20
Originally posted by Loknar

Arent people required to learn French in Quebec?

Immigrants only have access to French speaking schools. Perhaps it isnt forces assimilation but still, its a good thing.

What do you mean people are "required" to learn French in Quebec? No one is required to do anything here except being a good citizen. If you don't want an education, you don't have to get one. 

As for our schools here, of course it's French-speaking. What's your point? In France, schools are taught in French. In Spain, schools are taught in Spanish. In Brazil, schools are taught in Portuguese. So in Quebec, schools are taught in French. Do you need me to give more examples? English is being taught in school here too, of course. There are various sorts of language immersion programmes (for English and French).

There are also some English schools for the English minority here (which, interestingly, violates your so-called "forced assimilation" assertion because to make "forced assimilation" a success, English language schools shouldn't even exist here). In addition, there are schools run by various ethnic communities e.g. Armenian schools, Greek schools, Jewish schools, etc., some of them are subsidized by the government.

So I am sorry, Quebec does not really fit into your fascist model of forced assimilation. No one is forced to assimilate here. People learn the language just because they know it's the best thing for them to do, and you know what, most don't even have to be forced to do so. By the way, we have thriving ethnic communities here - Chinatown, Greek town, Little Italy, etc., and no one seems to have any problem with having multiple identities. I repeat, Canada is a country founded on immigration, and as long as Canada exists, hyphenated-Canadians will always eixst. But that doesn't mean these hyphenated-Canadians have no loyalty to Canada.

I believe that if a government is good to its people and if the government itself is good, its people will naturally be good and loyal to the government. No corecion to integrate is ever needed.

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  Quote BMC21113 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jan-2006 at 12:07

Hugoestr

-My ideal workers program would go something like this:

-First, I understand that the illegal immigrants already living in the States would not want to expose themselves for fear of punishment or deportation. For this, it must be considered that these people should be allowed to stay here and work for a select period of time. Now, there needs to be regulations on this idea. I feel that it should be a system based on different aspects of their time in this country. Most importantly, they must respect the laws of the country. Those convicted of a felony while here should be deported immediately and indefinately. If they are looking for a better life for themselves and/or their family back at home, breaking laws should not be in their best interest. Next, they should be rated by their employers. The employers should evaluate their job performance, and those which are productive and good employees should be rewarded. Finally, it would be crucial to set a time table for the workers. I would suggest a window of four to seven years which the guest worker may stay and work. After their time has expired, they should be eligible to apply for citizenship (if they wish to become citizens), and those which have been law-abiding citizens and diligent workers should be made top candidates for citizenship.

-This is just a simple outline, as I know it is much more difficult than it appears on paper. With some tweaking though, I feel that we could establish a guest workers program beneficial for both the United States and Mexico.

 

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  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jan-2006 at 16:37
Originally posted by BMC21113

Hugoestr


-My ideal workers program would go something like this/P]

-First, I understand that the illegal immigrants already living in the States would not want to expose themselves for fear of punishment or deportation. For this, it must be considered that these people should be allowed to stay here and work for a select period of time. Now, there needs to be regulations on this idea. I feel that it should be a system based on different aspects of their time in this country. Most importantly, they must respect the laws of the country. Those convicted of a felony while here should be deported immediately and indefinately. If they are looking for a better life for themselves and/or their family back at home, breaking laws should not be in their best interest. Next, they should be rated by their employers. The employers should evaluate their job performance, and those which are productive and good employees should be rewarded. Finally, it would be crucial to set a time table for the workers. I would suggest a window of four to seven years which the guest worker may stay and work. After their time has expired, they should be eligible to apply for citizenship (if they wish to become citizens), and those which have been law-abiding citizens and diligent workers should be made top candidates for citizenship.


-This is just a simple outline, as I know it is much more difficult than it appears on paper. With some tweaking though, I feel that we could establish a guest workers program beneficial for both the United States and Mexico.




I think that this is a just and practical solution. I agree with all of the points.

Do we have any other Americans that want to comment on this idea? Eaglecap? Locknar(sorry if I misspelled your sig )?

After we have a consensus here, we can send a more polished document to our congressmen and senators.

I will circulate your proposal on the internet, if you don't mind.
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  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jan-2006 at 16:40

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let me get back to you!! busy, busy, busy!!

My head is spinning but I want to answer this in fairness.

One suggestion is that Europe with its need for workers should import guest workers from Mexico and Latin American countries vs. .... well I'll keep it there!!

Edited by eaglecap
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jan-2006 at 17:03
Originally posted by eaglecap


One suggestion is that Europe with its need for workers should import guest workers from Mexico and Latin American countries vs. .... well I'll keep it there!!

That sounds highly impractic. Plus we already get guest workers, most of them from Africa and the Islamic world.

And I have to say that the way the Dutch government treats illegals is not much better than the US does, on some points it's even worse.
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  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jan-2006 at 17:16
Originally posted by Maziar

didn't California belonge to Mexico befor?


Depends on your view and if you are a California Indian or a Mexican.
It was European Spanish who claimed the area for Spain and after Mexico gained independence she naturally inherited those regions.
I have taken Californian history and I have read numerous books about this topic. The Californian Indians, who had not been subdued by the Spanish and forced into the Mission system, were constantly having skirmishes with the Spanish and later Mexicans. They saw both of them as invaders, as they no doubt saw the Anglo Americans. The Apache are another example of this in the desert southwest.

"Ishi" is a good account of the last Californian Indian who was living in the wild. I think his tribe was the Yani but they were basically wiped out.

According to one book on Californian history they figure there were about 300,000 to 500,000 Indians living in the region of what we know as California but shortly after the Spanish arrived it dropped to around 160,00 historians believe. (due to European diseases)It got much worse with the arrival of the Americans and the population dropped from around 160,000 to around 17,000.

I have met some Californian Indians and no they do not associate with Mexico today, they consider themselves Americans. Some of the most patriotic Americans I have met are Native Americans. I have driven through reservations in Montana with an American flag flying in front of almost every home.

I have also met numerous legal immigrants from Mexico and Central America, in Walla Walla, who were becoming very patriotic as well. I met them at Walla Walla Community College while I attended there.



Edited by eaglecap
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jan-2006 at 18:42
One suggestion is that Europe with its need for workers should import guest workers from Mexico and Latin American countries vs. .... well I'll keep it there!!


Are you aware of the unemployment rates in many EU countries? Cheap unskilled labour is the last thing that is needed.
As it is, skilled labour from South/Central America already move to the EU, mostly to Spain and Portugal, but also to Italy and Germany and to a lesser extent the UK and everyone else. For the most part, they apparently integrate well, though i hear Portugal has some issues with less well off Brazilian migrants.
Arrrgh!!"
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  Quote BMC21113 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jan-2006 at 18:42

Hugoestr

-sounds fine to me.....

Mixcoatl

-how does the US treat illegals badly?

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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jan-2006 at 21:04
Originally posted by Loknar

No they should be forced to assimilate. I'm not talking about forcibly telling them to, but I think when we have drivers ed books in Vietnamese there is a problem.

Hell, my voter registration form came in the other and some of it is in CHINESE. WHAT THE HELLA RE WE DOING?

I see no reason why this should in Chinese. If important documents were entirely in English..in other words, if these people were forced to learn English out of necessity then things would work out OK. And furthermore, their culture would contribute to the American culture over all as they integrate. As a new group of people integrate our culture changes, but it is a universal change. What we see in the west of the US is very disturbing.

All because people want to be liberal and say "no we cant do that, its racist."

The people who say this are dangerous.

What if 2 culture groups develop in this country and it divides us?

This country is didvided, it has always been divided for all its history and it will continue to do so.  If this country was one homogenous mass it wouldnt be as innovative, and it would be much more boring.  Overall I have to say I agree that if you come here you should speak English and thus the governmetn documents like liscences should in fact be in English only.  But you seem to advocating a kind of culture police , the anti-yet still just as dangerous version of the PC police.  I do understand what you are saying though.  English on all offical documents, thats perfectly fine, but what people talk in their homes, to each other on th eplayground, thats their damn business and no one should tell them how to live their personal life.  I remeber hearing how some kid in middle school was punished for speaking Spanish not in class, but in the hallway to friends.  Thats his business and what language he speaks when out of the classroom, or out of the drivers liscence office, and it should be illegal to regulate it.  If on the other hand he spoke Spanish in class to the teacher, it would be entirely different.

 

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