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Best leader of a Muslim country at present?

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Poll Question: Who do you think is the best leader of a Muslim country at present?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
1 [1.82%]
16 [29.09%]
7 [12.73%]
0 [0.00%]
3 [5.45%]
1 [1.82%]
22 [40.00%]
1 [1.82%]
0 [0.00%]
4 [7.27%]
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Best leader of a Muslim country at present?
    Posted: 08-Jan-2006 at 02:04
How could Pakistan help Turkey in 1914-20 if Pakistan didn't even exist at all? 

NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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  Quote Mira Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2006 at 02:07
Originally posted by erci

wrong.that makes 1/3 of Turkey's population Arab, considiring %70 to %80 of the man power of Turkey were soldiers in independence war.I'm not saying there was no Arabs in Army but numbers were not significant like 1/3 you said.And highly doubt that they were pure Arabs but turkified or mixed mostly


Hello Erci,

I think you forgot about the Tribal School, or Mektebi-i Asiret.  The school was founded, during the Hamidian era, for the purpose of training the children of Arabs sheikhs and notables to be good Ottomans.  After completing their studies in the Tribal School, they were sent to the Military Academy, or Harbiye.

Where these graduates were posted to serve depended on an imperial order, or irade.
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  Quote erci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2006 at 02:18
Originally posted by Maju

How could Pakistan help Turkey in 1914-20 if Pakistan didn't even exist at all? 


Pakistanis not Pakistan
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  Quote Mira Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2006 at 02:20
Originally posted by erci

Originally posted by Maju

How could Pakistan help Turkey in 1914-20 if Pakistan didn't even exist at all? 


Pakistanis not Pakistan


Indian Muslims, maybe?
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  Quote erci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2006 at 02:23
indian muslims of present day Pakistan,

sorry...

Edited by erci
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  Quote erci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2006 at 02:24
Originally posted by Mira



Hello Erci,

I think you forgot about the Tribal School, or Mektebi-i Asiret.  The school was founded, during the Hamidian era, for the purpose of training the children of Arabs sheikhs and notables to be good Ottomans.  After completing their studies in the Tribal School, they were sent to the Military Academy, or Harbiye.

Where these graduates were posted to serve depended on an imperial order, or irade.


Mira, I was refering to your words about arabs in Mustafa Kemal's army not Ottomans.it doesn't make sense at all.
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  Quote Mira Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2006 at 02:34
Originally posted by erci

Mira, I was refering to your words about arabs in Mustafa Kemal's army not Ottomans.it doesn't make sense at all.


Hello again Erci,

If Mustafa Kemal Pasa had called for a "Turkey for Turks," would it make sense to have other nationalities serve in the Turkish army?

I cannot answer to your question because I don't know anything about the Turkish independence war.

However, according to Wikipedia:

The war followed World War I, and the Treaty of Sevres. It culminated with the establishment of the modern Turkish Republic, which was cleansed of minorities through the Greco-Turk population exchange of 1922, and the dissolution of the 500 year old Ottoman Empire. It also left the Kurdish question unresolved, as the Kurds were promised an independent state in the Treaty of Sevres, which was not ratified, and the majority of Kurds ended up under Turkish rule.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_War_of_Independence

So it makes sense that minorities and other nationalities were waved at with a farewell kerchief, no?
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  Quote erci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2006 at 03:00
if you knew the meaning of the Turkish independence war then you would understand why.Would you rather him to say Turkey for Turks and Arabs if arabs helped him?That's why we have very good relations with Pakistan today.I hope this makes sense.it was a war between Greek, British, French  and Turkey.

treaty of serves?it was a plan to share Anatolia even the parts where Turks were majority had been shared between christians. you should read more about this war.who denied minorities or Kurds?


Edited by erci
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  Quote Mira Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2006 at 03:38
Originally posted by erci

if you knew the meaning of the Turkish independence war then you would understand why.Would you rather him to say Turkey for Turks and Arabs if arabs helped him?That's why we have very good relations with Pakistan today.I hope this makes sense.it was a war between Greek, British, French  and Turkey.

treaty of serves?it was a plan to share Anatolia even the parts where Turks were majority had been shared between christians. you should read more about this war.who denied minorities or Kurds?


Erci,

I wasn't even talking about Kurds.

It is worth mentioning that Indian Muslims from Karachi and Lahore (prior to the separation) were never under Ottoman rule.  Many of them were greatly impressed by Mustafa Kemal Pasa, including Dr. Mohammed Iqbal, the well-known poet and philosopher.  However, Dr. Iqbal was under the impression that Turkey was going to be a modern Muslim country, that would re-open the door of Ijtihad, (the process of re-instituting Shariah laws in light of modern thought and experience.) 

The re-examination of the role that Islam plays in shaping the foundation and structure of a modern state was seen as crucial and necessary, whereas the total exclusion of Islam, and the secularizing of the state was not thinkable to any Muslim.

What do you think made Muslims of the sub-continent identify with Turks, if not Islam?
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  Quote Super Goat (^_^) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2006 at 05:01
no no, i didnt even mention turkeys indepence war, its all WWI.

I was talking about kemal during WWI not independence.
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2006 at 22:13
Arabs are the 3rd worst warriors in the world. They are just too peaceful. Thats why they are still being oppressed by invadors.

At one point the Americans were going to attack and ethnic turkish village in Iraq. Chasing "insurgents" or some such reason. Turkey decleared that if America attacked that village then Turkey would withdraw all privilages america has with turkey concerining Iraq (like trucks driving across the border etc). The americans called off the attack.

I haven't heard of fighting for turkey in the 20's but it is certainly very likely. I do know that in Broken Hill, Australia a few of the paki's that were brought out to run the caravans, launched an insurrection against the British-Aussie government when britain attacked turkey. So if Paki's in a majority english land are prepared to fight for turkey then it is very likely people went across to fight for turkey in turkey. Also best not to call paki's muslims indians. Call us subcontinent muslims, or even afghans. In fact muslim indians are called paki's in places such as england.

Why pakis and turks get one so well is hard to put a finger on. Certainly historically turkic and muslim mongols are always the good guys on the subcontinent.
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  Quote TeldeIndus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2006 at 22:27

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

Arabs are the 3rd worst warriors in the world. They are just too peaceful. Thats why they are still being oppressed by invadors.

At one point the Americans were going to attack and ethnic turkish village in Iraq. Chasing "insurgents" or some such reason. Turkey decleared that if America attacked that village then Turkey would withdraw all privilages america has with turkey concerining Iraq (like trucks driving across the border etc). The americans called off the attack.

I haven't heard of fighting for turkey in the 20's but it is certainly very likely. I do know that in Broken Hill, Australia a few of the paki's that were brought out to run the caravans, launched an insurrection against the British-Aussie government when britain attacked turkey. So if Paki's in a majority english land are prepared to fight for turkey then it is very likely people went across to fight for turkey in turkey. Also best not to call paki's muslims indians. Call us subcontinent muslims, or even afghans. In fact muslim indians are called paki's in places such as england.

Why pakis and turks get one so well is hard to put a finger on. Certainly historically turkic and muslim mongols are always the good guys on the subcontinent.

Lol! That's true actually. It seems to be the Indians that get called Paki more, and on AE the Pakis get called Indian.

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  Quote TeldeIndus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2006 at 22:31

Originally posted by Maju

How could Pakistan help Turkey in 1914-20 if Pakistan didn't even exist at all? 

I havent heard of it either, but it wouldnt surprise me. Pathans have a certain magnetism for a good clean fight  

We are not without accomplishment. We have managed to distribute poverty - Nguyen Co Thatch, Vietnamese foreign minister
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  Quote Fizzil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2006 at 22:32

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

Arabs are the 3rd worst warriors in the world

Who are the other 2?

Also i disagree, kinda. Arabs would do well with some training and an alien concept called "unity" which they realised sometime in the 7th century AD, but somehow it eroded real quick a few centuries later.

 

 

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  Quote OSMANLI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jan-2006 at 03:56

Who voted for Musharaf ???

Or was it some sort of joke?

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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jan-2006 at 19:50
Originally posted by Fizzil

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

Arabs are the 3rd worst warriors in the world

Who are the other 2?

Also i disagree, kinda. Arabs would do well with some training and an alien concept called "unity" which they realised sometime in the 7th century AD, but somehow it eroded real quick a few centuries later.

 


Italians would be the 2nd worst, and australian aboriginies the worst.
I think the only person ever to truely unite the arabs was the prophet (pbuh)

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  Quote oTToMAn_TurK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jan-2006 at 19:59

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim



I do know that in Broken Hill, Australia a few of the paki's that were brought out to run the caravans, launched an insurrection against the British-Aussie government when britain attacked turkey.

that was actually afghans i beleive... the first muslim immigrants to come to australia wer the afghanis and yes it is true that they reacted this way due to the decision of the australian govenrment to go war with the ottomans...

but its ironic that they were actually treated like some sort of heroes even by australians coz of there courage... today they would be seen as terrorist...

Either your a slave to what MADE-MAN
Or your a slave to what MAN-MADE
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jan-2006 at 05:51
Originally posted by oTToMAn_TurK

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim



I do know that in Broken Hill, Australia a few of the paki's that were brought out to run the caravans, launched an insurrection against the British-Aussie government when britain attacked turkey.

that was actually afghans i beleive... the first muslim immigrants to come to australia wer the afghanis and yes it is true that they reacted this way due to the decision of the australian govenrment to go war with the ottomans...

but its ironic that they were actually treated like some sort of heroes even by australians coz of there courage... today they would be seen as terrorist...


They were considered heros? Wow. And they were called Afghans then, but would now be called Paki's. Most came from Balchistan or Sind and left from Karachi, and the guys who rebelled at least wrote in Urdu.
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  Quote oTToMAn_TurK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jan-2006 at 07:20

yea sort of heroes, coz today there is not one australian that thinks that going to war with the ottomans was really nessacerry. it was a meaningless war for the australians since there soldiers died for abslutely nothing, coz it wasnt there war. These muslims that stood up for there countries (ottoman empire) really got the people of broken hill emotional...

"The first day of January 1915 was long remembered as a day of tragedy, terror, heroism and high emotion in the city of Broken Hill."

and yea on second thought it could be possible that they are pakistanis

Either your a slave to what MADE-MAN
Or your a slave to what MAN-MADE
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  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jan-2006 at 07:47
pakistan (or pakistani's) didnt exist in 1915, they were known and are  remembered as afghanis.
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