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Best leader of a Muslim country at present?

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Poll Question: Who do you think is the best leader of a Muslim country at present?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
1 [1.82%]
16 [29.09%]
7 [12.73%]
0 [0.00%]
3 [5.45%]
1 [1.82%]
22 [40.00%]
1 [1.82%]
0 [0.00%]
4 [7.27%]
You can not vote in this poll

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TeldeIndus View Drop Down
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  Quote TeldeIndus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Best leader of a Muslim country at present?
    Posted: 10-Jan-2006 at 07:51

Well, you're both wrong according to the Archive of Australian Heritage Commission publications

"With Elder's first camels back in 1866 came their handlers. They mostly came from India's Northwest Frontier Province and from Baluchistan, both abutting on Afghanistan, and so were generally called Afghans. The 'Ghans', as they became known, had no monopoly as camel handlers.................................The role of Afghan cameleers in attacking a holiday excursion train near Broken Hill in 1915 further alienated them from much of the population. They did this out of loyalty to the Caliph of Islam, the Ottoman Emperor, then at war with the British Empire, and paid for their zeal with their lives."

http://www.ahc.gov.au/publications/national-stories/transpor t/chapter3.html 

Afghans are another name for Pathans from the NWFP in Pakistan and form a large proportion of Balochistan province.

 



Edited by TeldeIndus
We are not without accomplishment. We have managed to distribute poverty - Nguyen Co Thatch, Vietnamese foreign minister
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erci View Drop Down
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  Quote erci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jan-2006 at 09:13
article on page 2 states Pakistanis as Indian muslims

   
The Indian Muslims, now compromising the present-day country of Pakistan, had helped Turkey greatly during Tripoli (1911), World War I and the war of Indipendence (1914-1922) (6,7).


http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:ZbUDeCABNVUJ:www.ishi m.net/ishimj/4/03.pdf




Edited by erci
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  Quote TeldeIndus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jan-2006 at 09:37

In 1914, the Afghans or Pathans of NWFP were a part of British India, hence Indian (though NWFP was lawless and the British could not conquer it - An interesting book and poem by Kipling I found here -

 You're white people - sons of Alexander - and not like common, black Mohammedans  - or so Dravot, the main character of Rudyard Kipling's The Man Who Would Be King (1891) addresses the Pathans. 

Weighing a Pathan against an Englishman for their valour in The Ballad of East and West, Kipling exclaims:

Oh, East is East and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,

Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;

But there is neither East nor West, Border nor Breed, nor Birth,

When two strong men stand face to face,

Though they come from the ends of the earth!'

- Though I think Kipling is ignoring the technological advantage enjoyed by the British here. )

But yeah, in 1914, the Pathans were Indians, youre not wrong erci, though now they're Pakistani (some are in Afghanistan), you could say the Indian Muslims of 1911 I suppose, though this would be misinterpreted by someone with no knowledge of the subcontinent. Generally, Pathans refer to themselves as Afghans or Pakistanis now.

We are not without accomplishment. We have managed to distribute poverty - Nguyen Co Thatch, Vietnamese foreign minister
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  Quote erci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jan-2006 at 10:01
No I don't claim they are Indians in fact everyone knows in Turkey that they are Pakistanis
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  Quote Jagatai Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jan-2006 at 06:33

Who votes for RTE?

The best one is Pervez Musharaf.

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  Quote Voyager Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jan-2006 at 06:44
Regarding the question at the opening of this topic my answer is:

None.
They are all crooks or religious nuts.
Islm has no future.
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  Quote The Hidden Face Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jan-2006 at 06:46
Originally posted by Jagatai Khan

Who votes for RTE?



Me. 
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  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jan-2006 at 07:25

Dont believe his words, what whas he 5 years ago and now... he says allways "degistim, degiserek gelistim" that bullsh*t he's allways repeating. He claims they act on the islamic laws, look what ive heard about credit cards he let do it?

Bir kurbani dahi krediyle aliyolar artik, ki faizli is Muhammed s a s peygamberimizin hadislerinde syle gecer "Annenizle zina yapmis kadar gnahi vardir faizin"

Hani islami kurallara uyuyodu bizim tayyibbos?

sorry for Turkish.

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  Quote Jagatai Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jan-2006 at 07:33
He and his cabinet don't have enough intelligence to rule a country. 
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  Quote OSMANLI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jan-2006 at 07:46

What rubbish! This is from some one who voted for Musharaf

DAYI are to keep going in circles about Erdogans personal belief in Islam. We have already many a time on this topic acknowledged that Erdogan is a practicing Muslim. Again your point about interest comes from his PERSONAL belief in Islam.

Has Erdogan tried to ban interest in the Turkish financial sector?

NO!

So it is clear since we have already esablished the division between Erdogans PERSONAL beliefs and his actions as a minister. Thus one would come to the view that all those that are hating on Erdogan are clearly doing so because of their own prejedice against those Muslims that try to please Allah.

Voyager, are you anouther joker? "Islam has no future" is this from your research that shows that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world or is from the fact that Practising Muslims are growing in number. Such a baceless comment indeed.

Those that voted for Mahathir Mohamad is this simply becuase he defeat the Pan-Islamic Party (PAS) (again indicating the blatent prejedice against Muslims), because i very much doubt that you voted for him due to his authoratarian regime (which is clealry against both Islamic and secular values, proving that the hatred for Islam is higher then that of your love for secularism)

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  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jan-2006 at 07:56

Osmanli how you can trust someone who's 5-10 years ago whas an extremist and after he whas elected he "changed" and now a "soft islamist"?. What whould he be in the next 5-10 years? A comunist? He cant even stay on the back of his promises and allways repeating the same prob all the f**king 5 years!! Is "trban" the key of whealty growing economi of Turkish republic?

Think logical, Atatrk did know it 80 years ago that so kind of people would elected, "Herzaman din ile siyaseti karistiracak politikacilar cikacaktir, bizim grevimiz bunlari laiklik sistemiyle durdurmaktir, din insana zgn birseydir politikaya, siyasete bulastirilmamasi gerekir" -or something close its on his "nutuk".

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  Quote Mira Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jan-2006 at 09:58
Gentlemen,

You all have an excellent command of English, masha'Allah.  Could you please switch to that so we could all understand the discussion here?  Shukran!
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  Quote Jagatai Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jan-2006 at 10:03

For me,Musharaf is more reliable person.I can never trust on Erdogan.

Pervez Musharaf was a student in Turkey at the Cyprus Operation years and he said he had always thought to fight in Turkish army as a volunteer.But Turkish Army didn't accept volunteers.

The same for the people of Pakistan.At those years, thousands applied to fight in Cyprus operation in Pakistan.

Well,let's come to Tayyip.He hasn't changed.His politics still smell "Milli Grs" and his behaviours/speeches are only reminds me the hooligans of Kasimpasa.

As i said before,he and his men don't know anything about politics, diplomacy or economy.They only follow the programs of IMF and EU which were already begun by previous governments.

They still couldn't create a doctrine about future of Turkey,Cyprus and Northern Iraq issues, Kurdish terror, the relations between US and EU etc etc.

They are only spending time.

But the guilty one is not him too.It is Deniz Baykal, who doesn't know how to be populist.



Edited by Jagatai Khan
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  Quote OSMANLI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jan-2006 at 06:28

Agreed, the Pakistani's through out history have been brothers of the Turks.

" Turkun dostu Turktur"

"A Turks freind is a Turk"

K.Ataturk

Which is why i used the term brother, since they are more than freinds.

However the Turk/Pak relationship is not on trial here.

Musharaf is not a man that will stand by his principles. When Musharaf came to power there was such joy in Pakistan. I my self was excited by the prospect of Pakistan having a strong leader.

However since 9/11 Musharaf's cowadice has been more than apparent. Pakistan and even Musharaf were old age allies with Afghanistan. For the aggenda of the US this close link between the allied nation meant nothing. Musharaf a general one must remember at the fear of the increased phrase " War on Terror" started to criminilise Pakistani's (even innicent civilians) to show for his improvements in cracking down on 'suspect terrorists'. This man has been a mere puppet since 9/11.

"Herzaman din ile siyaseti karistiracak politikacilar cikacaktir, bizim grevimiz bunlari laiklik sistemiyle durdurmaktir, din insana zgn birseydir politikaya, siyasete bulastirilmamasi gerekir"

"There will always be people that will try to mix politics with the religion, our duty is to stop them via the secular system, for a person of religion the idea of politics is one that is original (diffrent)"

Feel free to edit my translation.

Again i have already commented on how Erdogan is NOT mixing his personal belief in Islam with his actions as a minister.

If you were true Kemalists you would also belive in democracy. Erdogan was elected. You all are simply picking up on things Erdogan has said and have dismissed his actions.

Sivas Congress. On the front row, there is a man with Islamic attire as well as the Sunnah beard. This proves that even Mustafa Kemal did not complete alienate practising Muslims.

"Osmanli how you can trust someone who's 5-10 years ago whas an extremist "

Extreme, how?

Was he a member of a group like Hizb-ullah, IRA, Al-Qaeda, EOKA?

Is the fact that he does not drink, gamble, womanise and keeps to his principles extreme? In my point of view that is an extremly rare form of a good person.



Edited by OSMANLI
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  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jan-2006 at 06:34

Was he a member of a group like Hizb-ullah, IRA, Al-Qaeda, EOKA?

Is the fact that he does not drink, gamble, womanise and keeps to his principles extreme? In my point of view that is an extremly rare form of a good person.

Omg, if he whas a member of these groops, he even cant be doorwaiter of a whorehouse...

He whas a "Milli grs" sempasitant, that company wants to destroy Turkey's "laik" system and replace it with "sheriyah" of their own.

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  Quote TeldeIndus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jan-2006 at 06:34
Originally posted by OSMANLI

However since 9/11 Musharaf's cowadice has been more than apparent. Pakistan and even Musharaf were old age allies with Afghanistan. For the aggenda of the US this close link between the allied nation meant nothing. Musharaf a general one must remember at the fear of the increased phrase " War on Terror" started to criminilise Pakistani's (even innicent civilians) to show for his improvements in cracking down on 'suspect terrorists'. This man has been a mere puppet since 9/11.

Afghanistan and Pakistan have never really been allies, at least politically. First of all, the Afghan king sold NWFP and Balochistan to the British under the Durand agreement, and then after Pakistan's formation, Afghanistan's government allied with the Soviets to try and stir up the Balochi people to cause a civil war in Pakistan.

We are not without accomplishment. We have managed to distribute poverty - Nguyen Co Thatch, Vietnamese foreign minister
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  Quote kotumeyil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jan-2006 at 06:40
Originally posted by OSMANLI

" Turkun dostu Turktur"

"A Turks freind is a Turk"

K.Ataturk

This is not a quote from him; this is from ultranationalist groups.

[IMG]http://www.maksimum.com/yemeicme/images/haber/raki.jpg">
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  Quote erci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jan-2006 at 15:26
Originally posted by Jagatai Khan

But the guilty one is not him too.It is Deniz Baykal, who doesn't know how to be populist.



So true.I know people who always have supported CHP but didn't vote in last elections just to punish him.

btw, oylar Karayalcin a
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jan-2006 at 00:59
Originally posted by OSMANLI

Musharaf is not a man that will stand by his principles. When Musharaf came to power there was such joy in Pakistan. I my self was excited by the prospect of Pakistan having a strong leader.

However since 9/11 Musharaf's cowadice has been more than apparent. Pakistan and even Musharaf were old age allies with Afghanistan. For the aggenda of the US this close link between the allied nation meant nothing. Musharaf a general one must remember at the fear of the increased phrase " War on Terror" started to criminilise Pakistani's (even innicent civilians) to show for his improvements in cracking down on 'suspect terrorists'. This man has been a mere puppet since 9/11.


Musharaf is a lot better than any other leader pakistan has had in years. Since 9/11 pakistan has had a very tight rope to walk and Musharaf has walked it well. America attacked Afghanistan because Osama may have been there, they now say he is in Pakistan. America attack Iraq because they claimed it had Weapons of mass destruction. Pakistan regularly tests them.  Musharaf has kept US troops off pakistani soil.
Pakistan couldn't oppose the attack on afghanistan, the americans were in a "Your either with us or against us" mood. Besides, why would you want to defend the Taliban?
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jan-2006 at 03:04

So true.I know people who always have supported CHP but didn't vote in last elections just to punish him.

btw, oylar Karayalcin a

And he gain vote from others who is against and afraid from AKP(not supperter of CHP). Chp already has not much vote, and most probably never would become goverment again.(except military coup)

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