Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Catalan company... who were they?

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Surenas View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 21-Dec-2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 58
  Quote Surenas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Catalan company... who were they?
    Posted: 23-Dec-2005 at 08:52
Hello All,
Just wondering if anyone can give me a description of the catalon company and what Almogavers were?
Back to Top
Komnenos View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
Retired AE Administrator

Joined: 20-Dec-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4361
  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Dec-2005 at 11:17
Here is a previous thread, where you can find some info.


http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2543&KW= Catalan+Company
[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg">
Back to Top
Maju View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar

Joined: 14-Jul-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6565
  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Dec-2005 at 07:15
As far as I know, the almogvares (Arabic for scouts) were a type of mounted infantery, mostly from the Pyrenees, who seem to have used about the same military equipement that ancient Iberians had: two spears and a sword. They were the best fighting in open field but had no abilities defending fortifications (thy defended Gallipoli marching out). Their most common tactic was to rip the soft belly of horses, forcing then the knights or other cavalry to fight on foot, where they were clearly superior.

Apart of the famous Catalan Company, there was also a Navarrese Company, first sent there to conquer Albania for the Sicilian monarchs.

NO GOD, NO MASTER!
Back to Top
Surenas View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 21-Dec-2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 58
  Quote Surenas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Dec-2005 at 04:09
How were they used with knights?
did they charge with the kngihts?
what where spainish knights like?
Back to Top
Maju View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar

Joined: 14-Jul-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6565
  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Dec-2005 at 08:40
Originally posted by Surenas

How were they used with knights?
did they charge with the kngihts?
what where spainish knights like?


They did not charge: they were infantery (mounted but infantery anyhow). As I described above they force knights to fight on foot, where they were superior normally. I don't know they ever fought with knights but if they did, they probably divided the battlefield in areas of action.

Spanish knights were like any other knights, I guess. But these weren't the backbone of Aragonese or (later) Spanish expansion. They played a role in the Reconquista wars, specially the military orders (Santiago, Calatrava, etc.) but later Aragon and Spain managed to create modern armies that had most of the weight in the infantery (halbardiers, musketeers) and artillery.

The period of Catalan (Aragonese) expansion in the Mediterranean is probably more modern (early Renaissance) than medieval, at least in the military sense. Also Catalonia wasn't just the typical feudal kingdom... in some senses it was more like the Mediterranean republics of Italy, with a constitutional monarchical structure, which may help to explain why so many free peasants were capillarly recruited to the army. Remember that these almogvares came from the north were feudalism wasn't the norm but the exception.

NO GOD, NO MASTER!
Back to Top
Ikki View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Guanarteme

Joined: 31-Dec-2004
Location: Spain
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1378
  Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jan-2006 at 08:41
Like say Maju, the almughavars was light infantry armed with a small shield, javelins and a wide and short sword; they were from the catalan and aragonese Pyreneese. It is curious, these guys looks like iberians or celtiberians warriors. The infantry were the bulk of the army and was supported by jinetes,  few heavy cavalry and in the asian campaign by alans. (Maju, you ask me in another thread that i culdn't read, umm, hasta ayer, sorry moderator, what was the jinetes: mounted javaliners)

They crushed to the turks in three battles between the Egean sea and the Taurus mountain. I know the first: a night attack to the camp of the turks. The sources say that the turks couldn't pierce their armour (i think, the armour of the few heavy cavalry)

After the tragedy in Gallpolli and Constantinople, in Greece they fight with the french knigts. In Tessaly or Beotia i can't remember, the french thought that they could crush to the almughavars with a frontal attack, but the Grand Company was behind a swanpy terrain (was inappreciable because the grass) and the knights were totally annihilated.

bye


Edited by Ikki
Back to Top
Heraclius View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 28-Jun-2005
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1231
  Quote Heraclius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jan-2006 at 10:14

 Its a shame the Catalans didn't return its Anatolian conquests to Byzantium as they should of or atleast as the Emperor should of insisted upon. The Catalans would then of easily recieve their pay and De Flor could probably have created a small Catalan state in Asia Minor for himself without any problems.

 The Catalans are the kind of mercenaries who are stereotypical to what mercenaries are seen as, self-selving, ultimately disloyal and most dangerously of all more effective than your own army so can turn against you at any moment. Byzantium truly unleashed a force it could not hope to control and which in the end did more harm than good.

A tomb now suffices him for whom the world was not enough.
Back to Top
RomiosArktos View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 13-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 309
  Quote RomiosArktos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jan-2006 at 12:39
According to the book:Byzantine Armies AD 1118-1461,Ospreypublishing the characteristic weapons of the Almogavaroi was a long spear(coutell) and two to four javelins(azagaya).These javelins could do great damage even to a mounted knight when they were thrust with great violence.
Back to Top
Maju View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar

Joined: 14-Jul-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6565
  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jan-2006 at 16:20
Originally posted by Heraclius

 Its a shame the Catalans didn't return its Anatolian conquests to Byzantium as they should of or atleast as the Emperor should of insisted upon. The Catalans would then of easily recieve their pay and De Flor could probably have created a small Catalan state in Asia Minor for himself without any problems.

 The Catalans are the kind of mercenaries who are stereotypical to what mercenaries are seen as, self-selving, ultimately disloyal and most dangerously of all more effective than your own army so can turn against you at any moment. Byzantium truly unleashed a force it could not hope to control and which in the end did more harm than good.



Why is it a shame? It's exactly the same as with the Crusaders... in fact all that wasn't but the late upbeat of the Crusades: when you aren't able to defend yourself and need to call for help... then you are totally sold - and expect the helpers to help themselves more than anything else.


Edited by Maju

NO GOD, NO MASTER!
Back to Top
RomiosArktos View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 13-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 309
  Quote RomiosArktos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jan-2006 at 16:52
Originally posted by Maju



Why is it a shame? It's exactly the same as with the Crusaders... in fact all that wasn't but the late upbeat of the Crusades: when you aren't able to defend yourself and need to call for help... then you are totally sold - and expect the helpers to help themselves more than anything else.


You are right.When you hire mercenaries,you should be prepered even for this attitude.The Rhomaioi(Byzantines) relied too much at that time on mercenaries,the mercenaries noticed that and some of them seized the great opportunity.
As far as i remember the Catalans founded a principality in Attica that become vassal state to the Ottomans some years before the capture of Constantinople
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.094 seconds.