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Does the world really need the religions?

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Poll Question: Does the world really need the religions?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
41 [57.75%]
30 [42.25%]
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Kalevipoeg View Drop Down
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  Quote Kalevipoeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Does the world really need the religions?
    Posted: 18-Dec-2005 at 17:33
We don't need religion. Atheism has expanded in the last centuries and nothing worse has happened to mankind that you could link with lack of faith in God (religion). Religion has just happened to be a part of mans twisted subconscious and there is nothing we can do about it. Now it is dieing, and religion is mostly accepted due to tradition or a moment of weakness. More and more people become religious due to despair, just to have a "something" to talk to, relate to in this too real world.
Children who believe in Santa Clause are stronger believers than any modern Christian/muslim/Judaist who has seen modern ideals. More so Christians who live in a more materialistic and technical world. Do they what they may, but to say i believe there is a force/being of supreme power in this world has to be in denial (in a quiet one of course, nobody really sees it) and block reality out daily to keep his little "happy world" together for his illusions.
I believe that bunny rabbits have a power to influence my mind and take mankind into eternal prosperity. ANY true religious person should be interested in a philosophical discussion with me right now, anyone?

I wish Tobodai would be here, really nice to read his posts on religion.
There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible than a man in the depths of an ether binge...
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  Quote jfmff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2005 at 20:13
A true religious person doesn't care if someone is provoking him to discuss.


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Maju View Drop Down
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2005 at 04:53
Originally posted by jfmff

A true religious person doesn't care if someone is provoking him to discuss.


That can be for these reasons: (a) greed: he/she believes that his ideas are superior to those of others, (b) "bunker" defense strategy...

A true knowledgeable person, normally will enjoy a discussion on what he/she knows about, either as pedagogical exercise or as interesting contrast of ideas.

NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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  Quote Kalevipoeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2005 at 05:05
Yes, but he should have the same respect towards my bunny rabbit religion than he has towards Islam, etc.
There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible than a man in the depths of an ether binge...
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  Quote jfmff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2005 at 05:45
Originally posted by Maju

Originally posted by jfmff

A true religious person doesn't care if someone is provoking him to discuss.


That can be for these reasons: (a) greed: he/she believes that his ideas are superior to those of others, (b) "bunker" defense strategy...

A true knowledgeable person, normally will enjoy a discussion on what he/she knows about, either as pedagogical exercise or as interesting contrast of ideas.


A true religious and knowledgeable person doesn't care if someone is provoking him to discuss.


Edited by jfmff
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Jhangora View Drop Down
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  Quote Jhangora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2005 at 06:25

I voted yes.

I'm not very religious n don't follow the guidelines,rules n regulations of my religion.It is true that organized religion many times causes problems especially in a country like India where people of all faiths live.

I believe society should grant each individual freedom to practise the religion of his choice/birth n should tolerate even those individuals who don't believe in a religion/God.

I believe religion n God r two different things.Religion or organized religion has more to do with forms of worhip,different prophets or incarnations,different places of worship,different days of fasting,etc.What I mean is when I say that a person belongs to a certain religion what I actually mean is that the person concerned goes to a temple/mosque/church to pray.He considers friday/saturday/sunday to be a day fixed for special weekly prayers.He believes in a certain book as being holy.Do I really know what that person believes in.Do I know anything firsthand about the book/books he has faith in.

I have read a little bit from scriptures of different faiths n I think if we scratch the surface truth is the same.All the religions try to better the society as a whole.

I do not believe in a particular prophet or God.I am not even certain about existence of God.My view is that all the prophets/incarnations were good people who tried to improve humanity.Whether the inspiration was divine or human,I'm not sure. Until I'm sure i prefer to consider them human beings,good human beings.

As I said earlier organized religion does pose problems but my view is a society with relgion is much more likely to come out of adverse situations than a society where majority of individuals r atheists {or skeptics or whatever}.Religion gives us moral guidelines.Religion teaches us to be good to others,religion teaches us sacrifice.It might be true that poorer people/nations r more religious n with financial affluence people tend to be less religious but money is no substitute for religion.

I want to say many more things but difficult to put them into words right now.

Jai Badri Vishal
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  Quote Cezar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2005 at 15:58

I'll go for another question as an answer: Does the Universe need Humans(mankind)? For if mankind needs religion then the Universe needs religion. Let's Hope the Sun, or Vega, or Regulus, or another star may register and post a reply on this topic.

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  Quote Super Goat (^_^) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2005 at 00:41
Even if all religions are false, and theres no god, I'd still want something to look forward to when i die, even if i make it up myself. If there's no belief in an afterlife, then what will drive people to work hard or do good in their present life.

Well, just think about how boring a world with no religion will be.
a few hundred years from now, when everyone forgets about religion, people's life will be so pointless and full of despair that they'll wish they believed in a religion. and thats when they start worshipping the Internet as a god. I've already started on that. But my movement's a bit weak, so spread the word...any help would be appreciated.Smile
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  Quote arsenka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2005 at 12:23

[QUOTE=Maju]

"We are reaching the limits of the speakable at this point."

That's the Absolute Truth in its best interpretation, Maju! Thank you for your arguments! I'll restrain myself from continuing this dispute

(Even if I still can't agree with your mixing up objective and subjective things.)

 as it's likely to fall into sophistry and clinging to words; it would be pity if it did. There are things that are not to be perceived in such way. (I'll cite one old soviet movie: "There are things person must do himself: he is born himself and dies - himself. Noone should help him here.")

As for the Absolute Truth I'll quote M. Bulgakov; in his novel "Master and Margarita" there is a notorious dialoge (sorry for poor translation):

 "- Why did you speak about the Truth, the thing YOU can have no idea about?! What is Truth?! Do you know it?!

 - First of all the Truth is that you have a headache, igemon, and it's difficult for you not only to speak to me but even see me..."

The first phrase belongs to Pontius Pilat; the second - to Jesus Christ (in the book he is called Jeshua Ga Notsri by the way). Curious, isn't it?

Jhangora wrote:

"I believe society should grant each individual freedom to practise the religion of his choice/birth n should tolerate even those individuals who don't believe in a religion/God.

I believe religion n God r two different things.Religion or organized religion has more to do with forms of worhip,different prophets or incarnations,different places of worship,different days of fasting,etc.What I mean is when I say that a person belongs to a certain religion what I actually mean is that the person concerned goes to a temple/mosque/church to pray.He considers friday/saturday/sunday to be a day fixed for special weekly prayers.He believes in a certain book as being holy.Do I really know what that person believes in.Do I know anything firsthand about the book/books he has faith in.

I have read a little bit from scriptures of different faiths n I think if we scratch the surface truth is the same.All the religions try to better the society as a whole.

I do not believe in a particular prophet or God.I am not even certain about existence of God.My view is that all the prophets/incarnations were good people who tried to improve humanity.Whether the inspiration was divine or human,I'm not sure. Until I'm sure i prefer to consider them human beings,good human beings.

As I said earlier organized religion does pose problems but my view is a society with relgion is much more likely to come out of adverse situations than a society where majority of individuals r atheists {or skeptics or whatever}.Religion gives us moral guidelines.Religion teaches us to be good to others,religion teaches us sacrifice.It might be true that poorer people/nations r more religious n with financial affluence people tend to be less religious but money is no substitute for religion.

I want to say many more things but difficult to put them into words right now."

I agree with you 100%.

arsenka
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Hector Victorious View Drop Down
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  Quote Hector Victorious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2005 at 16:53
The world Most definitly Needs religion, It tell us how to act and Gives us answer to or Bruning questions.....
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2005 at 17:50
Originally posted by jfmff

Originally posted by Maju

Originally posted by jfmff

A true religious person doesn't care if someone is provoking him to discuss.


That can be for these reasons: (a) greed: he/she believes that his ideas are superior to those of others, (b) "bunker" defense strategy...

A true knowledgeable person, normally will enjoy a discussion on what he/she knows about, either as pedagogical exercise or as interesting contrast of ideas.


A true religious and knowledgeable person doesn't care if someone is provoking him to discuss.




But he keeps arguing in cricles?

NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2005 at 17:54
Originally posted by Kalevipoeg

Yes, but he should have the same respect towards my bunny rabbit religion than he has towards Islam, etc.


If he/she is a truly knowledgeable person... then he/she will know that there's no difference.

That's why I think that truly knowledgeable/wise people are non-partisan in this thing of religion.

NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2005 at 18:01
Originally posted by Hector Victorious

The world Most definitly Needs religion, It tell us how to act and Gives us answer to or Bruning questions.....


But what if the advice and answers are wrong?

NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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  Quote Hector Victorious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2005 at 22:05
Well at least they belive something.......Every human has to belive SOMETHING!
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  Quote Vamun Tianshu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Dec-2005 at 00:00

Religion tells us how to act?Thats surely against our own free will,even though free will is an imaginative prospect created by the human psyche to act upon things that are against our opinions...Every human doesn't have to believe in something,I don't see Animals getting on their knees and begging in their tongue for a God to come and save them,and this is before a predator is going to make them dinner.I think a better question is does the world need Humans,surely identical to Cezar's question,but this narrrows it to Earth,because I'm sure this other life in the vast Universe that believe in a God of their own,or are too intelligient and open-minded to believe in such rubbish.

Does God act and save those who call to him?I haven't seen it.But God and Religion are two different things,its just God is incorporated to any Religion to satisfy the weak needs of human beings.So does the world need Religion?The answer is there are those who need it and those who scorn it or don't need it,so its impossible to answer it.


In Honor
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  Quote Jhangora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Dec-2005 at 08:51

Originally posted by Maju

Originally posted by jfmff

Originally posted by Maju

Originally posted by jfmff

A true religious person doesn't care if someone is provoking him to discuss.


That can be for these reasons: (a) greed: he/she believes that his ideas are superior to those of others, (b) "bunker" defense strategy...

A true knowledgeable person, normally will enjoy a discussion on what he/she knows about, either as pedagogical exercise or as interesting contrast of ideas.



A true religious and knowledgeable person doesn't care if someone is provoking him to discuss.





But he keeps arguing in cricles?

These people keep dancing in circles.

Jai Badri Vishal
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  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Dec-2005 at 11:53
Yes, they are sufi dervishes. It resembles the movement of the planets.
An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur?
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  Quote BMC21113 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Dec-2005 at 12:26
-I am a religious person, and though I was brought up in a Christian household, I never found true religion for myself until I was seventeen years old. I understand that many intellectuals dismiss religion as being nothing more than a myth for "dumb" people to follow. For me, religion does not affect my ability to learn and grow in my studies, but helps me learn and grow as a person. Religion offers many good things to a society, as religions are usually based on a way to live your life. Religions teach about kindness, sacrifice, compassion, love and many other attributes that help people co-exist peacefully. Now, I know that religion is not a necessity to develop these traits, but for many people, it holds them at a level of accountability for their actions. As a teenager, I had no direction in life. I was living a life that would get me nowhere, and once I found religion, I found something more to live for. Religion gives me more to life than the drudgery of work and school everyday. I would like to believe there is something more to life than what we experience everyday. Even if I am wrong, I do not want to believe that we are born, we live, we die, and that is it. I know that many will disagree with my views, but that is why faith is essential to religion. I have faith that there is something more, though I would never push my beliefs onto someone else. You can set a better example through action than preaching. Religions have extremists like every other group in society. They are the ones that make religious people appear as "crazy." The people I know who have accepted religion are just normal people and do not have to speak of "hell-fire and brimstone" to get their messages across. They are usually great role models who are very productive in society. Religion is not only for the ignorant, but for those who seek something more in their lives. Right or wrong, don't we all deserve something extra in life, especially if that something extra brings happiness and inner peace? I believe that is one of the great things about humanity, and those who completely discredit the value of religion, do not really understand what religion can do for an individual.
"To be prepared for war is one of the most effective means of preserving peace"-George Washington
"The art of war is, in the last result, the art of keeping one's freedom of action."-Xenophon
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  Quote Kian_the_great Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Dec-2005 at 13:36

Ok now, stop as we all see there are two groups of people in this thread

Secular and Religious

Religion is good as long as it is not the major part of a political entity

Over Blow, thats it, simple....

Balian of Ibelin: What is Jerusalem worth?
Saladin: Nothing.
Saladin: Everything!
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Maju View Drop Down
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Dec-2005 at 07:31
Well, I'm secular... but I'm also spiritual. I eventually discovered that not everything can be explained by science... luckily I already knew that atheism and pantheism were the same thing... with diferent emphasis... so I just had to put the emphasis in the spiritual thing.

But I'm not religious in the sense of having blind faith in some specific godform, idol-book or religious organization or doctrine. I think that all them are truly imperfect and therefore can only bring you to deception and confusion (when not to fanaticism). The "perfect" religion can't exist, so it's always better to stay open, critic and non-partisan.

NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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