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QuoteReplyTopic: US hypocrisy Posted: 13-Dec-2005 at 12:09
Originally posted by Mila
I remember a little over a year ago, the United States changed
something - illegally, according to trade laws, I might add - related
to steel imports. How many Americans even knew it happened? While, in
Russia, whole cities in the north were economically destroyed. I
remember seeing a special about the sudden rise in unemployment as
factories were forced to close, the associated rise in suicide rates,
domestic violence rates, and so on.
Good. Screw the economic stability of Northern Russia. It's not
America's problem. Shoud America respect trade laws it's signed onto?
Yes, but I think all these trade laws are stupid. I'm against fair
trade. The US govt. is in the business of ensuring the welfare of it's
citizens and if that means it has to make economic decisions that
afffect people overseas in order to benefit their citizens then so be
it. We live in a capitalist world, it's not fair and its not nice.
Either we change from capitalism to something else, or we stop
complaining when we get beaten. A government should have every right to
aid its people. In America, Americans first....foreigners second. Who
honestly wants their govt. to put foreigners before their own people?
and every nation is equally hypocritical. America's hypocricy jsut gets
thrown center stage. Russia really ahs no place criticizing US
involvement in Iraq......look what they are doing in Chechnya, but teh
world doesn't want to really deal with the Chechnya problem. Lets just
hollar about Iraq, its easier. Right? What about China and Tibet?
France loved too criticize America about racism over the years while
oppressing their own immigrants and citizens. Hypocrites. If you are
number one in the world, then your activities are going to be more well
known. It doesn't matter if America's policies affect more people, that
doesn't justify hypocricy in other nations. Either every nation stops
being hypocritcal, or we need to stop criticizing each other. Because,
in the end, we're all the same....hypocrites.
not to mention nations trying to balme others for their problems. Look
at Greece and Turkey trying to blame others for them killing each
other. It's pathetic. Man up to your own problems. There are many
problems that are caused by other nations, and blaming them is legit,
but ww ahve grown to fond of the blame game. It's easier to blame
someone else then handling the problem yourself. but in teh end....I
don't care, anyone who unjustly passes the blame is only hurting
themselves in the long run, and they get what they deserve.
I remember a little over a year ago, the United States changed something - illegally, according to trade laws, I might add - related to steel imports. How many Americans even knew it happened? While, in Russia, whole cities in the north were economically destroyed. I remember seeing a special about the sudden rise in unemployment as factories were forced to close, the associated rise in suicide rates, domestic violence rates, and so on.
Good. Screw the economic stability of Northern Russia. It's not America's problem. Shoud America respect trade laws it's signed onto? Yes, but I think all these trade laws are stupid. I'm against fair trade. The US govt. is in the business of ensuring the welfare of it's citizens and if that means it has to make economic decisions that afffect people overseas in order to benefit their citizens then so be it. We live in a capitalist world, it's not fair and its not nice. Either we change from capitalism to something else, or we stop complaining when we get beaten. A government should have every right to aid its people. In America, Americans first....foreigners second. Who honestly wants their govt. to put foreigners before their own people?
and every nation is equally hypocritical. America's hypocricy jsut gets thrown center stage. Russia really ahs no place criticizing US involvement in Iraq......look what they are doing in Chechnya, but teh world doesn't want to really deal with the Chechnya problem. Lets just hollar about Iraq, its easier. Right? What about China and Tibet? France loved too criticize America about racism over the years while oppressing their own immigrants and citizens. Hypocrites. If you are number one in the world, then your activities are going to be more well known. It doesn't matter if America's policies affect more people, that doesn't justify hypocricy in other nations. Either every nation stops being hypocritcal, or we need to stop criticizing each other. Because, in the end, we're all the same....hypocrites.
not to mention nations trying to balme others for their problems. Look at Greece and Turkey trying to blame others for them killing each other. It's pathetic. Man up to your own problems. There are many problems that are caused by other nations, and blaming them is legit, but ww ahve grown to fond of the blame game. It's easier to blame someone else then handling the problem yourself. but in teh end....I don't care, anyone who unjustly passes the blame is only hurting themselves in the long run, and they get what they deserve.
Well, I agree with your attitude, but free trade is the best thing for us to do, regardless. I'm for it for selfish purposes though, free trade benefits America so I support it.
Why US? It's not a country that is hypocrite. Maybe some senator, the President, some secretary or whatever, not the whole US! A few morons that by some chance are US citizens and are hypocrites doesn't neccessary leads to the conclusion that US citizens are hypocrites! Does, it?
There are hypocrites everywhere, in US as in every other countries.
Go for it US guys, show that US hypocrisy is the same as any other country hypocrisy!
*I hate unaccurate statements!!! Mostly when I say something and people think I'm hypocrite!
don't think CNN is all that biased, they tell it how it is. But then again I don't watch any of their shows, maybe Lou Dobbs, but all he talks about is securing the borders and trying to make America safer. While he brings up good points I'm getting alittle tired of hearing it.
Now that you mention it, Lou Dobbs is about the only one on CNN who seems to stick it to both sides and tries to hold both Demicans and Republicrats accountable for their outrages. However, even he seems to slip into the Leftist party line that CNN touts after a while. If he were to show his good sense all of the time, he would probably be fired!
Anyways there's nothing wrong talking down a president, all those you named even talked down on Clinton and still do with his wife and talk about all their Scandals. Like I said they only put up stories that will cause the most interest to cash in and beat their competitors.
Yes definitely. I am by no means a Republican boot-licker who sticks up for Bush. I think he has become a liberal in his second term. The true Conservatives, who are not to be confused with the phony conservative Republicans, were cheated in the election by Bush. He has turned his back on the base that elected him.
Originally posted by Mila
Lastly - no one ever likes the rich kid. Especially when they're fat and change the rules of the game every recess.
Yeah, they are all jealous of his parents' wealth and think that it should be given to their parents, since the rich kid's parents probably didn't earn it in an honest way. [/sarcasm]
Originally posted by hugoestr
If Bush didn't help by behaving like a "big-bad" Republican, then the media couldn't do anything, could they?
He isn't capable of acting "big and bad" and neither are the whiny little sophist Republicans in Congress! I WISH they would act big and bad for once and put the Leftists in their place.
Originally posted by Decebal
You don't seriously believe that all the news stations that criticize the president are the enemy of the country, do you? This is exactly the line fed by state propaganda in fascist and communist countries.
"directly opposed to the well-being and preservation of the USA as a country" WOW!!! Been listening to a bit too much Ann Coulter, have you?
Yes, I do believe most of the stations are extensions of the socialist Left-wing in the US. All other cares and interests are subordinated to their hatred of the Bush dynasty and the Republicans. Most of the newscasters and the executives of these organizations are still stuck on that 60's era mentality of wanting to bring down a Republican White House.
And no, I do not listen to Anne Coulter! She is way too nice for my liking and plus she is a fence sitter like most of the "conservative" talk show hosts - they waffle in between kissing Bush's butt and outright liberalism.
If all Americans thought like you, America would be a fascist country that Hitler could be proud of. Whatever happened to free speech and differing opinions, which are the pillars of the democracy that Americans are so proud of? I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and pretend that perhaps that came out wrong. If it didn't and you seriously believe that, then I suggest you take a long look at your own convictions.
Don't you sit there on your self-rightous tail and lecture me! The "Hitler fascism" argument is straight out of Air America (or should I say Air Canada) and leftist talking points. Don't try to pull that crap on me, you will not win with it. When did I ever deny anyone their right to free speech? I am criticizing the media and giving my own opinion about what I think they are all about, just like they give their tired old opinion about Bush and conservatives every stinking day on their programs! Maybe you just don't like what I said because I am a Conservative; in which case, why don't you just come out and say it! NO, what I said DID NOT come out wrong.
Originally posted by Seko
The problem that I have with the cheerleading news networks on cable is that you get an editorialized version of the news. I would like to see more formats where the audience of those very same networks become more involved via interactive participation. Dispute and debate with the average Joe instead of only inviting the so-called experts. This way the ringleaders that invade my TV will get faced with questions they can't easily manipulate to their liking.
I remember a little over a year ago, the United States changed something - illegally, according to trade laws, I might add - related to steel imports. How many Americans even knew it happened? While, in Russia, whole cities in the north were economically destroyed. I remember seeing a special about the sudden rise in unemployment as factories were forced to close, the associated rise in suicide rates, domestic violence rates, and so on.
Good. Screw the economic stability of Northern Russia. It's not America's problem. Shoud America respect trade laws it's signed onto? Yes, but I think all these trade laws are stupid. I'm against fair trade. The US govt. is in the business of ensuring the welfare of it's citizens and if that means it has to make economic decisions that afffect people overseas in order to benefit their citizens then so be it. We live in a capitalist world, it's not fair and its not nice. Either we change from capitalism to something else, or we stop complaining when we get beaten. A government should have every right to aid its people. In America, Americans first....foreigners second. Who honestly wants their govt. to put foreigners before their own people?
and every nation is equally hypocritical. America's hypocricy jsut gets thrown center stage. Russia really ahs no place criticizing US involvement in Iraq......look what they are doing in Chechnya, but teh world doesn't want to really deal with the Chechnya problem. Lets just hollar about Iraq, its easier. Right? What about China and Tibet? France loved too criticize America about racism over the years while oppressing their own immigrants and citizens. Hypocrites. If you are number one in the world, then your activities are going to be more well known. It doesn't matter if America's policies affect more people, that doesn't justify hypocricy in other nations. Either every nation stops being hypocritcal, or we need to stop criticizing each other. Because, in the end, we're all the same....hypocrites.
not to mention nations trying to balme others for their problems. Look at Greece and Turkey trying to blame others for them killing each other. It's pathetic. Man up to your own problems. There are many problems that are caused by other nations, and blaming them is legit, but ww ahve grown to fond of the blame game. It's easier to blame someone else then handling the problem yourself. but in teh end....I don't care, anyone who unjustly passes the blame is only hurting themselves in the long run, and they get what they deserve.
its about time someone set it straight! good job man! go US and all of our policies.
"Yeah, they are all jealous of his parents' wealth and think that it should be given to their parents, since the rich kid's parents probably didn't earn it in an honest way. [/sarcasm] "
Oh, Byzantine. Blasphemy. I am not jealous nor do I want them to give their money to my government.
"Yeah, they are all jealous of his parents' wealth and think that it should be given to their parents, since the rich kid's parents probably didn't earn it in an honest way. [/sarcasm] "
Oh, Byzantine. Blasphemy. I am not jealous nor do I want them to give their money to my government.
I'm frustrated and I want them to give it to me.
Gimme, gimme gimme!
Americans are so unfair.
I knew what you were getting at with that analogy. I apologize if I was having a bit of fun with it!
I commented on you being opposed to freedom of speech by your general attitude towards the media, and especially the following statement:
"They and their "news" is directly opposed to the well-being and preservation of the USA as a country"
To me, as someone who has grown up in one of the most repressive autocratic regimes of the 20th century (Ceausescu's Romania), this is eerily reminiscent of the type of language that that government used to employ.
I don't necessarily mind conservatives, but you seem to be far to the right of the American political spectrum, which is itself quite a bit shifted to the right compared to most countries in the world. This makes you to my mind an extremist, not a conservative. I've met plenty of level-headed and reasonable conservatives, and those I respect. Based on the comments I've seen so far from you however, you are not one of them.
Anyway, I don't think that I should really argue with you, because I've found that arguing with extremists will get me nowhere.
What is history but a fable agreed upon?
Napoleon Bonaparte
Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi
Wait, does the US have or had any involvment in Cyprus? I mean there might have been, but I haven't really heard about it. If not, how does that come to mind when their are other countries in the world that need help, one continent comes to mind, Africa. Which some US politicians have been pushing for to help parts of Africa.
The US has involvement everywhere, and anywhere it wants. It has more than than Greece, Turkey, and even the EU.
The US has increasingly supported Turkish ambitions on Cyprus, and seemingly supports the invasion. The US actually gave the OK to Turkey to invade Cyprus and has had a pro Turkish view since(and they helped you guys right back in the War in Iraq..)
This was not an attack on the Us on my part. I like the US.
My point is the US needs to start "practicing what they preach." Perhaps this asks too much, though.
*The US has the choice to be the "big brother protector of the world" or not.
I got your point. The U.S. has been a moral authority for the while for a while now. Even people who are against it, their criticism often is that the U.S. doesn't live up to their role.
Of course, the U.S. has never really done so, but the recent news of human rights violations did mark a low in recent history.
The way I see it, Americans shouldn't get angry at the non-Americans that point this out. They should get angry at their government who fails to live to the American ideas of justice and freedom.
To me, as someone who has grown up in one of the most repressive autocratic regimes of the 20th century (Ceausescu's Romania), this is eerily reminiscent of the type of language that that government used to employ.
Well, I am sorry that you had to endure such hardship, seriously. However, I still do not really see how my criticisms of the American media really compare with the words and actions of Adolf Hitler. As a Bible-believing Christian I respect the Jews as God's chosen people and I am a supporter of Israel. In no way were my comments racist or anti-Semitic. Nor were they "fascist" for that matter, unless you believe that sincere nationalism (not the violent or racist kind) and a critical opinion are fascism.
I don't necessarily mind conservatives, but you seem to be far to the right of the American political spectrum, which is itself quite a bit shifted to the right compared to most countries in the world. This makes you to my mind an extremist, not a conservative. I've met plenty of level-headed and reasonable conservatives, and those I respect. Based on the comments I've seen so far from you however, you are not one of them.
Yes, I am probably more right on the spectrum than most. In my mind an "extremist" on both sides of the spectrum is one who advocates violence and racism in the attainment of their political goals. I have never done this so I don't believe I am an "extremist" in that sense. Maybe because I am far right of what you believe, and of what you think many Americans believe, I am an extremist. When you come right down to it, I love my country and I have a very strong opinion about those whom I think threaten the country and its freedoms.
Anyway, I don't think that I should really argue with you, because I've found that arguing with extremists will get me nowhere.
Well I am sorry you still feel this way. Maybe I did overeact a bit, but likening conservative or right-wing thought as it is in America to Hitler and the Nazis is not going to get you a response in moderation in my book. As us midwest country-bumpkins would say, "Thems is fightin' words!"
By the way, I have been able to see eye to eye with Maju and hugoestr (who are most likely on the left side of the spectrum) on some issues in other topics, so its not like I am blinded by my Conservatism or anything. I recognize good sense when I see it.
Originally posted by Mixcoatl
I wonder if Byzantine Emperor even knows the meaning of 'left wing' and 'socialist'
Yes I do know the meaning of the terms. But I like throwing them around because it makes you guys mad!
Though I don't like that we aren't "practicing what we preach", if we want to stay a super power we are going to have to break rules. In the end if we don't, then someone who is more oppressive then the US is can cause more damage. I guess we'll find out in a decade or so when the US is supposed to take a step down from being the super power.
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
I remember a little over a year ago, the United States changed something - illegally, according to trade laws, I might add - related to steel imports. How many Americans even knew it happened? While, in Russia, whole cities in the north were economically destroyed. I remember seeing a special about the sudden rise in unemployment as factories were forced to close, the associated rise in suicide rates, domestic violence rates, and so on.
Good. Screw the economic stability of Northern Russia. It's not America's problem. Shoud America respect trade laws it's signed onto? Yes, but I think all these trade laws are stupid. I'm against fair trade. The US govt. is in the business of ensuring the welfare of it's citizens and if that means it has to make economic decisions that afffect people overseas in order to benefit their citizens then so be it. We live in a capitalist world, it's not fair and its not nice. Either we change from capitalism to something else, or we stop complaining when we get beaten. A government should have every right to aid its people. In America, Americans first....foreigners second. Who honestly wants their govt. to put foreigners before their own people?
and every nation is equally hypocritical. America's hypocricy jsut gets thrown center stage. Russia really ahs no place criticizing US involvement in Iraq......look what they are doing in Chechnya, but teh world doesn't want to really deal with the Chechnya problem. Lets just hollar about Iraq, its easier. Right? What about China and Tibet? France loved too criticize America about racism over the years while oppressing their own immigrants and citizens. Hypocrites. If you are number one in the world, then your activities are going to be more well known. It doesn't matter if America's policies affect more people, that doesn't justify hypocricy in other nations. Either every nation stops being hypocritcal, or we need to stop criticizing each other. Because, in the end, we're all the same....hypocrites.
not to mention nations trying to balme others for their problems. Look at Greece and Turkey trying to blame others for them killing each other. It's pathetic. Man up to your own problems. There are many problems that are caused by other nations, and blaming them is legit, but ww ahve grown to fond of the blame game. It's easier to blame someone else then handling the problem yourself. but in teh end....I don't care, anyone who unjustly passes the blame is only hurting themselves in the long run, and they get what they deserve.
-Could not have said it better myself. And as for the critiques on the US, it seems that people are getting more ignorant in economics, politics, and government. America never said that they would only takes strides to better America if it benefited every other country as well, rather the case is a lot of the times the opposite. Its as if non-Americans have this implication that America has devoted its power and influence for their benefit, a service that is reserved for only Americans. I quote Illuminati "In America.....Americans first, foreigners second". That is a perspective that every country should take, their own peoples interest first.................except for the US of course, we have everybody else to worry about. I dont disagree with the fact that if America is in a position to help than they should. After all the signers of the Declaration believed that if a man sees something that is wrong and has the ability to do something, he has the responsibility to do something. But like stated before, In America......American interest takes precedence. I also believe that a in a lot of cases foreigners dont want American help.
When I made the comment about Adolf Hitler, I did not in any way mean to imply that you are an antisemite, or racist, or anything of that nature. I did make the comment though, because your attitude seems to imply that a strict control of the media is preferable, and that is a hallmark of a totalitarian society. You also said that Ann Coulter is too nice, and a few other such comments, so I decided that your political views border quite close to fascism. Hence the Hitler reference. Saying Benito Mussolini would not quite have had the same effect you see.
Anyway, my comment was that if all Americans shared your views, America would be a fascist state. I don't see what else you would call a country where the media is state-controlled, where intense nationalism is the norm, and dissent would be stifled. I didn't say that they would necessarily massacre anyone like Hitler would, but that such views run contrary to the principles that the US has claimed to uphold since its independence.
Edited by Decebal
What is history but a fable agreed upon?
Napoleon Bonaparte
Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi
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