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India Part of Greater Middle East?

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  Quote SuN. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: India Part of Greater Middle East?
    Posted: 09-Nov-2007 at 07:27
Originally posted by Sparten

Nobody here has the foggiest clue about India it seems.

People here are not so ignorant as is being made out by this post.

India is not a nation it is a continent.

True. With dozens of languages, hundreds of dialects, All the religions of the worlds, hundreds of varying customs & cultures, it may be true. THe number of cultures seen from Burma to Iran is mind boggling.



Bangadeshis are Bengalis, there language culture and some would say religion is v different from say Pakistan, hence '71.

71 was not due to difference in cultures. It was due to the continued, unrelenting & unjust repression of Eastern Pakistan by Western Pakistan.

Secondly Sri Lanka are mostly Sinhalese and Buddhist, again totally different from Pakistan or India.

Their are again more buddhists in India than Sri Lanka. There are more Muslims in India than Pakistan. The plurality is reflected not only outside, but inside the country also.



As for Pakistan, well we have only any similarity with say Indian Punjab and Rajestan,

The Baloochi language is closely related to Tamil. The Rajputs, Gujars, Sindhis, share common cultures apart from the two mentioned above.


The muhajirs although few in No. impact greatly the whole culture of Pakistan, Suffice to say that the language of 4 % of the country is the lingua franca & the official language of Pakistan . So both the countries share a common offical language & lingua franca. Infact Hindi can be understood over the whole subcontinent in varying forms & degrees.



All this further point sout to the fact that the Indian subcontinent consisting of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal, Tibet, Parts o Afghanistan cannot be clubbed with Mid east or central Asia. It deserves it's own separate regional identity which was given to it in the form of being called "The Indian Sub Continent"
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Nov-2007 at 08:57
'71 was because of a treasonous actions of a few communist Bengalis.
Balochi langauge is not related at all to Tamil, it is a variation of Persian.
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  Quote SuN. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Nov-2007 at 12:07
Originally posted by Sparten

'71 was because of a treasonous actions of a few communist Bengalis.

Please substantiate your claim with some hardcore evidence. Because the real reason was something else. The acts responsible for 71 were indeed treasonous  but not those  of Bengalis, but  Western Pakistanis.


Balochi langauge is not related at all to Tamil, it is a variation of Persian.

Dear I never said it is not a variation of Persian, But it is also  related with the Dravidian languages.


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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Nov-2007 at 12:28
Nighty Night Vivek.
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  Quote anum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2007 at 20:32
I think the land west of indus can be included in greater part of middle east, but certainly not the land east of indus
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  Quote Conservative Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Dec-2007 at 12:18
Originally posted by anum

I think the land west of indus can be included in greater part of middle east, but certainly not the land east of indus
 
The Middle East is a political region not a geographical one.
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  Quote Ardeshir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2007 at 02:23

no india cant be included as part of the middle east, there is nothing middle eastern about it!

Thinking is the essence of wisdom
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  Quote anum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2007 at 17:20
Lol technically what does iran have middle eastern? only islam i think.
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  Quote Conservative Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2007 at 22:07
Originally posted by anum

Lol technically what does iran have middle eastern? only islam i think.
 
Iran shares its history and politics with the rest of the Middle Eastern countries moreso than it does with any other region. Being Middle Eastern has nothing to do with Islam but everything to do with socio-political factors and history.
 
The only other 'region' Iran could be included in would be Central Asia since Iran's history and civilization is pretty much tied up with countries like Tajikistan, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan too. But like i said before the Middle East is a political region, and thats where most of Iran's politics are to be found.
 
India on the other hand has no significant connection at all to Middle Eastern affairs, either contemporary or historically.
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  Quote andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jan-2008 at 02:42
Originally posted by anum

Lol technically what does iran have middle eastern? only islam i think.
 
Iran was also linked with the Middle East. Like the Egyptians and Babylonians they helped to shape the face of the Middle East in culture, language, and religion.
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  Quote Suren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jan-2008 at 08:12
India and Pakistan can not be part of middle east. Pakistan and India plus Bangladesh and Sri Lanka make South Asian countries. I know Pakistani fellows don't like it but, Indians and Pakistanis are culturally and ethnically related. The only ethnic group with some Indian influence inside Iran is Baluchi. Afghanistan is more a central asian country to say a middle eastern one. Egypt is culturally and ethnically middle eastern.   
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jan-2008 at 08:28

Please explain to me how Pak and Ind are culturally related? I am getting tired of this. As mentioned before Pakistan is a border region. India is the size of Europe, with 1500 languages god only knows how many dialects. Two states in India are different from each other in most ways, and now you say Pakistan India Bangladesh are similar? Or Sri Lanka? Or Nepal?

 
Please support your assertions with some facts.
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  Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jan-2008 at 10:17
Hello Sparten
 
First, the Punjab, where half the Pakistani population come from is a natural continuation of Indian Punjab as well as Rajasthan. The same clans and peoples live on both sides of the border but have different religions.
 
Also, culturally, the caste system exists one way or another in Pakistan which is a remnant of the Hindu days especially in the Sindh. Now we covered 75% of the Pakistani people. The remaining part is partially influenced by Indian culture primarily defined by the continuing existance of Hindu practices, which is the main part of Indian culture, in those areas. I saw funerals of several prominent pashtun tribals i documentries and you can clearly see unislamic practices like the extensive use of roses and flowers to cover the bodies of dead people and to through them on graves which if I am not mistaken a hindu practice. So, Pakistan is deeply influenced by Indian culture and thus part of greater India.
 
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  Quote Suren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jan-2008 at 11:07
Simply, Pakistanis Food, Cloth, Language, art and a lot of more are influenced by Indian culture. The only different matter is the religion.

Dear Sparten @ you are free to think whatever you want but my personal answer is what I stated above.


Edited by Suren - 10-Jan-2008 at 11:12
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jan-2008 at 11:11
1) Indian Punjab is Sikh, Pakistani Punjab is muslim.
 
2) Punjab "province" in Pakistan is different from Punjabi people. Northern Punjab is the Potohar which is linked to Hazara area, most of the regions on the Indus are linked to the Frontier (and have Pushto speakers to boot). The South is Siraiki which again like the Potohar has a different langage. Only C Punjab Province is Punjabi strictly speaking, mainly the Gujrawala, Lahore and Okara divisions. Indian Punjabis are 2 % of Indians population.
 
3)Throwing flowers on a grave is unislamic? Since when? And if that practice was borrowed from the Hindus than they would be cremated, not buried. And BTW "Hindus" are vey different too, the C India and S India and Bengalis and Himalyan Hindus are so different from eacjh other as to be completely a different religion, indeed the term Hinduism is an umbrella term for all the non-Buddhist and non-Abrahamic religions of S Asia. Adding superlous similarties like that can lead to ridiculous assertions, like if I say that Saudis are really Scots since in both men wear a skirt like garment.
 
4) 99% of Pakistani native languages are undecipherable to Indians and vice versa.
 
5) We have different cultures, different beliefs, differentr myths, different traditional tales, different cusine, different dress, different features, different language from both the Indians and each other. There is no greater India. There is no India anything except the modern day nation state whose official name incidentally is not India but Bharat.
 
Pakistan has several similarties with the Mid East, mostly Balochistan/Sindh SW Punjab, several similarties with C Asia mostly Frontier, N Areas, Kashmir and Potohar, and several similarties with NW India, Punjab, Siraki, Jummu and Sindh East of the Indus. This dose not mean that we are Mid eastern or C Asian or Indian, just that by virtue of geography we encompass elements from all.
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jan-2008 at 11:16
Originally posted by Suren

Simply, Pakistanis Food, Cloth, Language, art and a lot of more are influenced by Indian culture. The only different matter is the religion.

Dear Spartan @ you are free to think whatever you want but my personal answer is what I stated above.
 
Food: N Indian diet, vegetarian, E Indian: rice, fish, S Indian diet: heavy meat.
 
Pakistan: Punjab, Frontier, Kashmir: mixed with vegetable, meat and a lot of dairy products. Sindh: fish, rice, Balochistan: heavy meat
 
Language:
N India: 1500 languages,
 
Pakistan: 150 languages
 
Dress:
India: Sari, Dhoti
Pakistan Shalwar Kameez
 
Suren, you really have had little interaction with S Asians have'nt you.


Edited by Sparten - 10-Jan-2008 at 11:17
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  Quote Suren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jan-2008 at 11:29
Honestly I have seen enough Pakistani and Indian in my life. I said pakistan is Influenced by Indian culture not an exact copy. please read it again. When I was a kid we had Pakistani Neighbours their food was very spicy and they even used cari. their girls always copied their cloth from Indian movies and they could easily sing Indian songs. 

Edited by Suren - 10-Jan-2008 at 11:32
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  Quote andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jan-2008 at 11:43
Originally posted by

Food: N Indian diet, vegetarian, E Indian: rice, fish, S Indian diet: heavy meat.
 
Pakistan: Punjab, Frontier, Kashmir: mixed with vegetable, meat and a lot of dairy products. Sindh: fish, rice, Balochistan: heavy meat
 
Which is nothing like Middle Eastern food. We eat a lot of bread (pita), fava beans, grape leaves, cabbage leaves, and use little to no spices in our food. We hate foods with spices, something Pakistanis and Indians love, and our food is a mild flavor that is heavily influenced by the Mediterranean sphere. There is no correlation between our cuisines.
 
Originally posted by

Language:
N India: 1500 languages,
 
Pakistan: 150 languages
 
Languages of India and Pakistan are influenced by Indo-Europeans and Dravidian languages, most of the Middle East is Afro-Asiatic with the exception of Iran who has directly influenced the Middle East as stated above.
 
Originally posted by

Dress:
India: Sari, Dhoti
Pakistan Shalwar Kameez
 
Middle Easterners, galibays, jalaba, and mehagabeen.
 
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jan-2008 at 13:15
 Suren maybe you should have asked where your neighbour was from.
 Watching which Indian movies they have 6 or 7 different film industries, the famous Bollywood, the there is the Bengali, the S Indian and the Tamil industries. All completely different from each other. They even used curry? What the hell dose that mean, curry is a type of a dish, its like saying they even used "hamburger"
 
 
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  Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jan-2008 at 14:24
Hello Sparten
 
Since the Punjab are Sikh, then where did they come from? oh yes did't Manmohan Singh come from Chakwal? weren't Lahore, Gujranwala, Sialkot etc the main cities of the various Sikh kingdoms in those areas? Same goes to the Sindh and their Hindu population which is still a majority in some places there. I am with the school of thought that says that there is no one India but I do support the idea that Pakistan, India, Bengladish and the himalaya states are al part of the same cultural cluster or subgroup. Plus throwing flowers is un Islamic and it is a remnant from the Hindu days.
 
Also if 20 or 30% of Pakistanis were not "Indian", the rest are. This said I don't think there is any doubt about it.
 
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