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No one showing up to worship? Sell it!

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  Quote Mila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: No one showing up to worship? Sell it!
    Posted: 05-Dec-2005 at 22:59
Although most countries and cities around the world have experienced some measure of population growth over the past century, attendance at places or worship has steadily declined.

In some parts of the world, buildings that once served as the focal point of a religious community are now being sold, purchased, and turned into everything condominiums to nightclubs.

It is happening to Christian churches, like this one in Boston, America, which is being turned into a condominium:



And it is happening to mosques, like this one in Bosnia and Herzegovina, which United Colors of Benneton moved into before the minaret was even taken down and the "Happy Eid" sign removed:



How do you feel about this? Would you be willing to live in a condominium that used to be a church? Could you shop in a store that was once a mosque?

Personally, I'm torn. They are, after all, just buildings. It is the people, and their faith, that make them special and once those people are gone there isn't really anything keeping the building alive. An old, run-down church or mosque seems more offensive to me than giving the building new life.

But at the same time, the buildings are special. No matter how much attendance numbers have dropped, there is someone - at least one person - in that community who faithfully visited that place or worship and to whom that building is something special. Especially as time moves on, they become a link to the past and are often fundamental to people's religious well-being.

I could not live in a building that used to be a church. I think I could live in a building that used to be a mosque but only because I'm religious. I couldn't bear the thought of, for example, Ariel Sharon, living in one. I could probably shop in a store that used to be a church or a mosque, though I would feel out of place and a little nervous.
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  Quote amir khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2005 at 23:22

Originally posted by Mila

I couldn't bear the thought of, for example, Ariel Sharon, living in one (a mosque).

...funny

 

But it is also happening very frequently in the U.K.  where Chapels are being converted into living accomodation, especially with the recent housing boom. People dont seem to mind, as long as any historic issues are dealt with sensativity.

 I dont think it matters much, as unused, dilapidated buildings are a real eyesore. Better to have fewer buildings with larger, more concentrated congregations.

Having said that, where they serve as a central focus for the community, maybe the regulations should be more stringent, even with reduced attendence.

 

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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2005 at 23:23
There was one Church that was turned into a strip club and bar in the US not to long ago. So while religion is starting to die out, atleast the buildings are coming to use. Who knows, maybe one of the gods like to have a good time.
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  Quote Mila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2005 at 23:24
You...pagan.

I shake my green and red fists at you!
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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2005 at 23:45
Hey, whats wrong with Pagans?

I'd turn a Church into a bar and maybe a strip club if I wanted to go all out. I like the architecture, some have a dark gothic look to them, and gargoyles always add to the look so I'd definitly find one like that. Theres no harm in doing it right, not like anyone else is using the place, so I'll just bring in new followers who will worship ice cold beer, sports, and maybe a couple of beautiful female bodies.

If the Christian god, or Jewish, or Muslim god exist and if there is a hell and I have to go for not following the religion and maybe have sinned at some points in my life I'm fine with it. It beats not exist at all to me.


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  Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2005 at 00:11
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy

There was one Church that was turned into a strip club and bar in the US not to long ago.


Talk about irony

Doesnt matter to me, though. If God is truly everywhere, then you dont need to be in a church to pray. You can do just fine praying in your condominium in private.
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  Quote sdavidr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2005 at 12:39
I'm a catholic atheist ( I've never been instructed on another religion, who knows in a future I could become a muslim, or a Buddisth ) but because of I know what is religion I will never permit that someone wants to profit making business in a religious building. At least, where I live I have never seen things like that. And I always will prefer a muslim mosque, a catholic church or another religious building  more than a strip club in front of my house. I have more respect of a religious person more than a person who attacks religion. That's my religion.
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  Quote ill_teknique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2005 at 14:58
Personally I do not agree with it, yes they are just buildings, but that doesnt mean that we shouldnt be respecting them.  Especially in Bosnia we fought for years for the right to be able to exist and practice religion and be able to rebuild religious buildings after shellings and then sell them to become buildings for secular uses is very disrespectful.  I would not want to live in a condominium or shop in a store that used to be a church because i feel that is very disrespectful towards what the church represents.




Edited by ill_teknique
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  Quote morticia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2005 at 15:12
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy

... if there is a
hell and I have to go for not following the religion and maybe have sinned at some points in my life I'm fine with it.


Hey buddy, I'll be there too!
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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2005 at 15:39

There's every reason to respect a church or mosque or temple or synagogue or meeting-house or .... while they are still in regular use.

At least the Catholic churches however have a ceremony of deconsecration, after which any church is no longer a holy place, and therefore can be used for any purpose, or torn down and replaced.

I rather think it is a legal requirement in the UK that such a ceremony be carried out in regard to an Anglican church, since it is established. I don't know what the rules are with regard to other denominations and religions.

It seems to me quite reasonable that if a church declares that a particular building is no longer consecrated for religious use - is therefore no longer holy, it should be treated like any other building. (Though they would tear down Notre Dame in Paris over my dead body )

Forcible deconsecration would be of course a different, unacceptable, matter.

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  Quote ill_teknique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Dec-2005 at 01:19
Originally posted by gcle2003

There's every reason to respect a church or mosque or temple or synagogue or meeting-house or .... while they are still in regular use.

At least the Catholic churches however have a ceremony of deconsecration, after which any church is no longer a holy place, and therefore can be used for any purpose, or torn down and replaced.

I rather think it is a legal requirement in the UK that such a ceremony be carried out in regard to an Anglican church, since it is established. I don't know what the rules are with regard to other denominations and religions.

It seems to me quite reasonable that if a church declares that a particular building is no longer consecrated for religious use - is therefore no longer holy, it should be treated like any other building. (Though they would tear down Notre Dame in Paris over my dead body )

Forcible deconsecration would be of course a different, unacceptable, matter.



i still think its desecration if you use a religous or spiritual building for non spiritual matters. 

if it can not be maintained i'd rather say tear it down and build a park in its stead than use it as a non spiritual building
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  Quote OSMANLI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Dec-2005 at 04:04

The selling of Churches is becoming common practice in the UK.

The example that iam going to show however is the selling of a Synagogue. The buyers were Muslims and thus turned the Synagogue into a Mosque. It is now called Masjid-E-Umer.

Above: The Mosque for many years kept the same charecteristics of its former Synagogue years.

Above: With the overwhelming increase in the Muslim population in the UK, esp. London the Mosque's comitee members decidede upon the demolition and reconstruction of the Mosque. This alowed for the maximisation of the space as well extentions being made. The cultural Islamic dome and minaret were also added.

For more information on Masjid-E-Umer check http://www.masjideumer.org.uk/



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  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Dec-2005 at 04:48

Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival

Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy

There was one Church that was turned into a strip club and bar in the US not to long ago.


Talk about irony

Doesnt matter to me, though. If God is truly everywhere, then you dont need to be in a church to pray. You can do just fine praying in your condominium in private.

And if want to stretch this a bit longer, a strip club is a most appropriate place to exclaim "oh my God"  

Depends of course on the quality of the strippers....

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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Dec-2005 at 05:33

Originally posted by ill_teknique


i still think its desecration if you use a religous or spiritual building for non spiritual matters. 

But you can only desecrate a consecrated building. If it isn't consecrated it cannot be desecrated. And once it has been deconsecrated it's no longer consecrated.

It's a bit like remarrying after divorce. You can't be divorced unless you are married, and once you are divorced you are no longer married.

Of course it is possible to believe that you cannot be divorced, and I suppose one could also believe that a building cannot be deconsecrated. It's difficult to see why however. The reason divorce is held to be impossible derives from the marriage oath containing the words 'till death do us part'. But the consecration ritual doesn't consecrate the building 'forever'.

What God (or the Church) gives, surely God (or the Church) can take away?

 

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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Dec-2005 at 06:17
I once marvelled at the idea of using a church to have a rave there. I still want to as well.
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  Quote dirtnap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Dec-2005 at 00:47
It is not blasphomous at all to sleep in any church, temple or place of worship. Throughout history and during many wars they become shelters or safe havens for the needy.

If they become unwanted, tear them down and build a school. I will always support more education and less religion...





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  Quote Jhangora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2005 at 07:30

Well Mila I gave my view on this topic in another thread which asked if religion is necessary for mankind.My view is money is no subsititute for religion {even though I am not religious n want to be a billionaire before I turn 40 [I read somewhere that world is full of contradictions n each contradiction is both true n false]}.

Would I shop in a church/mosque {may I add temple ;-)} converted into a shopping centre.Most definitely;if I am not aware that a place of worship existed before on that land.Maybe I have shopped before in such places. 

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  Quote flyingzone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Dec-2005 at 16:22
In my hometown Montreal where no one goes to church anymore, they are converting churches into condominiums for yuppies, metrosexuals, and gay men. I think it's a pretty cool idea.
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  Quote Herodotus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Dec-2005 at 17:39
Well, I've already killed the previous occupant, so why not take his pad?
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  Quote flyingzone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Dec-2005 at 18:01

Catholicism used to rule in Quebec. Not anymore. As a matter of fact, it's not just churches being converted into condominiums in Montreal these days. Nuns and priests are also selling their properties to developers. Hey, even godly people need to eat!!!

The college where I teach used to be a nunnery. There is also a cementary nearby. Very spooky ... Some old nuns are still living in a modern building next to the college campus. They constantly complain to us about walking into horny teenagers having sex on their lawn and having to pick up used condoms , both of which (pre-marital sex and the use of condoms) they do not approve ...  

 

 

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