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Mila
Tsar
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Topic: No one showing up to worship? Sell it! Posted: 05-Dec-2005 at 22:59 |
Although most countries and cities around the world have experienced
some measure of population growth over the past century, attendance at
places or worship has steadily declined.
In some parts of the world, buildings that once served as the focal
point of a religious community are now being sold, purchased, and
turned into everything condominiums to nightclubs.
It is happening to Christian churches, like this one in Boston, America, which is being turned into a condominium:
And it is happening to mosques, like
this one in Bosnia and Herzegovina, which United Colors of Benneton
moved into before the minaret was even taken down and the "Happy Eid"
sign removed:
How do you feel about this? Would you be
willing to live in a condominium that used to be a church? Could you
shop in a store that was once a mosque?
Personally, I'm torn. They are, after all, just buildings. It is the
people, and their faith, that make them special and once those people
are gone there isn't really anything keeping the building alive. An
old, run-down church or mosque seems more offensive to me than giving
the building new life.
But at the same time, the buildings are special. No matter how much
attendance numbers have dropped, there is someone - at least one person
- in that community who faithfully visited that place or worship and to
whom that building is something special. Especially as time moves on,
they become a link to the past and are often fundamental to people's
religious well-being.
I could not live in a building that used to be a church. I think I
could live in a building that used to be a mosque but only because I'm
religious. I couldn't bear the thought of, for example, Ariel Sharon,
living in one. I could probably shop in a store that used to be a
church or a mosque, though I would feel out of place and a little
nervous.
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amir khan
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Posted: 05-Dec-2005 at 23:22 |
Originally posted by Mila
I couldn't bear the thought of, for example, Ariel Sharon, living in one (a mosque). |
...funny
But it is also happening very frequently in the U.K. where Chapels are being converted into living accomodation, especially with the recent housing boom. People dont seem to mind, as long as any historic issues are dealt with sensativity.
I dont think it matters much, as unused, dilapidated buildings are a real eyesore. Better to have fewer buildings with larger, more concentrated congregations.
Having said that, where they serve as a central focus for the community, maybe the regulations should be more stringent, even with reduced attendence.
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SearchAndDestroy
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Posted: 05-Dec-2005 at 23:23 |
There was one Church that was turned into a strip club and bar in the
US not to long ago. So while religion is starting to die out, atleast
the buildings are coming to use. Who knows, maybe one of the gods like
to have a good time.
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"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
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Mila
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Posted: 05-Dec-2005 at 23:24 |
You...pagan.
I shake my green and red fists at you!
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SearchAndDestroy
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Posted: 05-Dec-2005 at 23:45 |
Hey, whats wrong with Pagans?
I'd turn a Church into a bar and maybe a strip club if I wanted to go
all out. I like the architecture, some have a dark gothic look to them,
and gargoyles always add to the look so I'd definitly find one like
that. Theres no harm in doing it right, not like anyone else is using
the place, so I'll just bring in new followers who will worship ice
cold beer, sports, and maybe a couple of beautiful female bodies.
If the Christian god, or Jewish, or Muslim god exist and if there is a
hell and I have to go for not following the religion and maybe have
sinned at some points in my life I'm fine with it. It beats not exist
at all to me.
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"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
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ArmenianSurvival
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Posted: 06-Dec-2005 at 00:11 |
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy
There was one Church that was turned into a strip club and bar in the
US not to long ago. |
Talk about irony
Doesnt matter to me, though. If God is truly everywhere, then you dont
need to be in a church to pray. You can do just fine praying in your
condominium in private.
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Mass Murderers Agree: Gun Control Works!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Resistance
Քիչ ենք բայց Հայ ենք։
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sdavidr
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Posted: 06-Dec-2005 at 12:39 |
I'm a catholic atheist ( I've never been instructed on another religion, who knows in a future I could become a muslim, or a Buddisth ) but because of I know what is religion I will never permit that someone wants to profit making business in a religious building. At least, where I live I have never seen things like that. And I always will prefer a muslim mosque, a catholic church or another religious building more than a strip club in front of my house. I have more respect of a religious person more than a person who attacks religion. That's my religion.
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ill_teknique
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Posted: 06-Dec-2005 at 14:58 |
Personally I do not agree with it, yes they are just buildings, but
that doesnt mean that we shouldnt be respecting them. Especially
in Bosnia we fought for years for the right to be able to exist and
practice religion and be able to rebuild religious buildings after
shellings and then sell them to become buildings for secular uses is
very disrespectful. I would not want to live in a condominium or
shop in a store that used to be a church because i feel that is very
disrespectful towards what the church represents.
Edited by ill_teknique
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morticia
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Posted: 06-Dec-2005 at 15:12 |
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy
... if there is a
hell and I have to go for not following the religion and maybe have sinned at some points in my life I'm fine with it.
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Hey buddy, I'll be there too!
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"Morty
Trust in God: She will provide." -- Emmeline Pankhurst
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gcle2003
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Posted: 06-Dec-2005 at 15:39 |
There's every reason to respect a church or mosque or temple or synagogue or meeting-house or .... while they are still in regular use.
At least the Catholic churches however have a ceremony of deconsecration, after which any church is no longer a holy place, and therefore can be used for any purpose, or torn down and replaced.
I rather think it is a legal requirement in the UK that such a ceremony be carried out in regard to an Anglican church, since it is established. I don't know what the rules are with regard to other denominations and religions.
It seems to me quite reasonable that if a church declares that a particular building is no longer consecrated for religious use - is therefore no longer holy, it should be treated like any other building. (Though they would tear down Notre Dame in Paris over my dead body )
Forcible deconsecration would be of course a different, unacceptable, matter.
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ill_teknique
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Posted: 07-Dec-2005 at 01:19 |
Originally posted by gcle2003
There's every reason to respect a church or mosque
or temple or synagogue or meeting-house or .... while they are still in
regular use.
At least the Catholic churches however have a ceremony of
deconsecration, after which any church is no longer a holy place, and
therefore can be used for any purpose, or torn down and replaced.
I rather think it is a legal requirement in the UK that such a
ceremony be carried out in regard to an Anglican church, since it is
established. I don't know what the rules are with regard to other
denominations and religions.
It seems to me quite reasonable that if a church declares that a
particular building is no longer consecrated for religious use - is
therefore no longer holy, it should be treated like any other building.
(Though they would tear down Notre Dame in Paris over my dead body )
Forcible deconsecration would be of course a different, unacceptable, matter. |
i still think its desecration if you use a religous or spiritual building for non spiritual matters.
if it can not be maintained i'd rather say tear it down and build a park in its stead than use it as a non spiritual building
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OSMANLI
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Posted: 07-Dec-2005 at 04:04 |
The selling of Churches is becoming common practice in the UK.
The example that iam going to show however is the selling of a Synagogue. The buyers were Muslims and thus turned the Synagogue into a Mosque. It is now called Masjid-E-Umer.
Above: The Mosque for many years kept the same charecteristics of its former Synagogue years.
Above: With the overwhelming increase in the Muslim population in the UK, esp. London the Mosque's comitee members decidede upon the demolition and reconstruction of the Mosque. This alowed for the maximisation of the space as well extentions being made. The cultural Islamic dome and minaret were also added.
For more information on Masjid-E-Umer check http://www.masjideumer.org.uk/
Edited by OSMANLI
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Yiannis
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Posted: 07-Dec-2005 at 04:48 |
Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy
There was one Church that was turned into a strip club and bar in the US not to long ago. |
Talk about irony
Doesnt matter to me, though. If God is truly everywhere, then you dont need to be in a church to pray. You can do just fine praying in your condominium in private.
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And if want to stretch this a bit longer, a strip club is a most appropriate place to exclaim "oh my God"
Depends of course on the quality of the strippers....
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The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics
Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
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gcle2003
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Posted: 07-Dec-2005 at 05:33 |
Originally posted by ill_teknique
i still think its desecration if you use a religous or spiritual building for non spiritual matters.
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But you can only desecrate a consecrated building. If it isn't consecrated it cannot be desecrated. And once it has been deconsecrated it's no longer consecrated.
It's a bit like remarrying after divorce. You can't be divorced unless you are married, and once you are divorced you are no longer married.
Of course it is possible to believe that you cannot be divorced, and I suppose one could also believe that a building cannot be deconsecrated. It's difficult to see why however. The reason divorce is held to be impossible derives from the marriage oath containing the words 'till death do us part'. But the consecration ritual doesn't consecrate the building 'forever'.
What God (or the Church) gives, surely God (or the Church) can take away?
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Constantine XI
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Posted: 07-Dec-2005 at 06:17 |
I once marvelled at the idea of using a church to have a rave there. I still want to as well.
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dirtnap
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Posted: 12-Dec-2005 at 00:47 |
It is not blasphomous at all to sleep in any church, temple or place of worship. Throughout history and during many wars they become shelters or safe havens for the needy.
If they become unwanted, tear them down and build a school. I will always support more education and less religion...
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Jhangora
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Posted: 20-Dec-2005 at 07:30 |
Well Mila I gave my view on this topic in another thread which asked if religion is necessary for mankind.My view is money is no subsititute for religion {even though I am not religious n want to be a billionaire before I turn 40 [I read somewhere that world is full of contradictions n each contradiction is both true n false]}.
Would I shop in a church/mosque {may I add temple ;-)} converted into a shopping centre.Most definitely;if I am not aware that a place of worship existed before on that land.Maybe I have shopped before in such places.
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Jai Badri Vishal
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flyingzone
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Posted: 24-Dec-2005 at 16:22 |
In my hometown Montreal where no one goes to church anymore, they are converting churches into condominiums for yuppies, metrosexuals, and gay men. I think it's a pretty cool idea.
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Herodotus
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Posted: 24-Dec-2005 at 17:39 |
Well, I've already killed the previous occupant, so why not take his pad?
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"Dieu est un comdien jouant une assistance trop effraye de rire."
"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh."
-Francois Marie Arouet, Voltaire
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flyingzone
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Posted: 24-Dec-2005 at 18:01 |
Catholicism used to rule in Quebec. Not anymore. As a matter of fact, it's not just churches being converted into condominiums in Montreal these days. Nuns and priests are also selling their properties to developers. Hey, even godly people need to eat!!!
The college where I teach used to be a nunnery. There is also a cementary nearby. Very spooky ... Some old nuns are still living in a modern building next to the college campus. They constantly complain to us about walking into horny teenagers having sex on their lawn and having to pick up used condoms , both of which (pre-marital sex and the use of condoms) they do not approve ...
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