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Being Muslim the Bosniak Way

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    Posted: 04-Dec-2005 at 18:18
BEING MUSLIM
t h e  b o s n i a k  w a y



Tebe, Allaha, Gospodara svjetova, hvalimo
Milostivog, Samilosnog
Vladara Dana sudnjeg
Tebi se klanjamo i od Tebe pomoc trazimo
Uputi nas na Pravi put
Na Put onih kojima si milost Svoju darovao
A ne onih koji su protiv sebe srdzbu izazvali, niti onih koji su zalutali!

In the name of God, the Almighty, the Most Merciful
Praise be to God, the Lord of the worlds
The Almighty, the Most Merciful
Possessor of the Day of Judgement
You alone we serve, and You alone we seek for help
Guide us on the straight path
The path of those whom you have blessed
Not those who have incurred the wrath, nor the misguided!

Bosnia and Herzegovina is one of only a handfull of European countries where Muslims form the largest group in the population. But religion in Bosnia, and the cultural tradition it represents, is the most crucial badge of self-identity.

For many Bosniaks, Islamic identity has more to do with cultural roots than with religious beliefs. Even among most religious Bosniaks, there is a disdain for religious leaders exercising any influence over day-to-day life.

Bosniaks are no different than other Muslims in that they view Islam from the foundation that is their culture. Whereas Muslims in countries like Iraq view Islam with a foundation formed in the era of tribal social structures, Bosniaks view Islam with a foundation strongly-entrenched in European tradition and the tolerant, permissive era of the Ottoman Empire.

The 1992-1995 war, which saw Bosniaks become the target of genocide, has also had a profound impact on the local, Islamic way of life.



Many cosmopolitan cities are now inhabited by more traditional refugees from the countryside. The Muslim community itself has also been fractured between those who follow the relaxed and tolerant local traditions of observance established during four centuries of Ottoman rule, and a small - but vocal - minority who have been educated in Arab countries or at foreign-run institutes within Bosnia and Herzegovina who insist on a more fundamentalist interpretation of Islam.

It is a conflict that - whatever the final decision of each individual - has forced all Bosniaks to choose. Here are the stories of two women who have made their decision.



Azra Hasanovic, 26, moved to Sarajevo 13 years ago from her home in northern Montenegro. Since the war she has hosted her own religious television show.

"For me the most important thing is home. Home is what gives me an identity. To the next generations I want to offer religious education, the education that I couldnt get as a child.

"Nobody believed that the war could break out. I decided that I would devote my life to the religion, because people of different religions were attacking Muslim people. People of Bosnia and Herzegovina must understand that they are Bosnians at first and after that Serbs, Croats or Bosniaks.

"I take care that my friends are believers even if they do not believe in Islam. Before the war I wanted to study history, but I couldnt since the university was very close to the battlefield. Relatives from Germany are helping me financially.

"Thanks to my active religious life I have a good, positive dreams. Western people are imagining Muslim women as a mother of ten and uneducated. This is very unjust and untrue stereotype, although Muslim women are tolerating it.

"This is a battle that secular Muslim women are fighting but I want to say: I am very religious, and very traditional, and I want to fight this as well. I am not a lesser woman because I dress as I do, or behave as I do. I am more of a woman as a practicing Muslim than I ever was before the war.

"I see these girls that run around almost naked and smile and laugh and have fun. But tell me this: In 50 years, when they look around at their life, what will they have? Do you see 60 years old women running through the streets almost naked and the young men flirting with them? No. They will have nothing. Nothing of meaning.

"Still I appreciate living in a country where I am exposed to these things. No one could have forced me to take the straight path I have chosen and every day I am reminded why it is the right path for me. All I need to do is look around. I love this country."




Snezana Islamovic, 28, grew up in Mostar - a city bitterly divided between Bosniaks and Bosnian Croats. She works as a bar maid and DJ at a local nightclub.

"For me the most important thing is family. My sisters and brother and I are all very close and we do everything together. Since my parents were killed, all we have left is each other.

"There was a time, during the war, when I wore a veil. I practically lived at the mosque, praying everyday for peace or death. It was all very foreign to me because my family was not very strict. My father had a glass a wine as he recited the Koran for us before meals.

"I don't believe religion is something that needs to be seen outside of the home. It is so personal and so specific to each individual person that whatever you do would be wrong in someone's eyes. So I leave it out of public life completely.

"I can relate to the women who have chosen to become more traditional since the war. I understand the questions they have and the conflicts they face. However I do believe they have been misguided about the true message of Islam and they have taken a very culturally Arab view of the life.

"Family is what is important. Our traditions, our way. Like our Imam said he had no doubt Bosniaks would return to our own traditions. When they say to me then I am not Muslim it is the same as a Christian saying I am not Christian.

"I agree with them, I am not Muslim in the way they consider it. That does not change what I believe and I believe in Islam and I believe I am Muslim. If it was good enough for God for the past centuries, then it is good enough now. I love God more than I can say and, of course, this He knows."


Reci: "Trazim zastitu Gospodara ljudi
Vladara ljudi
Boga ljudi
Od zla sejtana napasnika
Koji zle misli unosi u srca ljudi
Od dzina i od ljudi!"

Say: "I seek refuge with the Lord of mankind
The King of mankind
The God of mankind
From the evil of the sneaking whisperer
Who whispers into the chests of mankind
From among the Jinn and mankind!"
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  Quote Mila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2005 at 18:44

Gazi Husrev-beg    Husein Gradascevic    Safvet-beg Basagic    Alija Izetbegovic

Today, a national consciousness is found in the vast majority of Bosniaks. National consciousness has also spread to most Bosniaks in the neighboring countries. The largest number of Bosniaks outside of Bosnia and Herzegovina are found in Serbia and Montenegro (specifically in the Sandzak region). The city of Novi Pazar is home to the largest Bosniak population outside of the motherland.

Another 40,000 Bosniaks are found in Croatia and 38,000 in Slovenia. However, some of them still identify themselves as "Muslims" or "Bosnians", according to latest estimates. In Macedonia there are estimated to be about 17,000 Bosniaks.

The highest number of Bosniak immigrants and people descending of Bosniaks are found in Turkey. Today, it is generally accepted that approximately 350,000 Turks descend directly from Bosniaks who immigranted to Turkey mostly in the late 19. and early 20 century.

However, a recent study claims a much higher number of Turks descending from Bosniaks claiming an estimate of 2.5 million people. Newly found documents by some Turkish historians has resulting in the claim of a number as high as 2.5 million Turks having direct and indirect Bosniak ancestry.

These historians say that because of the Turkish laws in the late 19. and early 20. century saying that all immigrants arriving to Turkey must become completely Turks resulted in the fact that Bosniak ancestory was lost. For example the immigrants were forced to change their names to Turkish sounding names or entirely Turkish names. As a consequence of this, today some Turks do have Bosniak sounding surnames but also entirely Bosniak surnames the most common one probably being Kili spelled in Turkish and in Bosnian spelled Kilić.

Traditionally, Bosniaks are Muslims. However, due to more modern influences and the dictatorship of Communism during the period of 1945-1992, has resulted in a few Bosniaks having Atheist, Agnostic, or Deist beliefs (Pre war estimate of 10% of total population). Today, in Bosnia-Herzegovina the overwhelming number of Bosniaks belong to the Sunni branch of Islam (97% est.), although historically Sufism played a significant role in the country.

Being part of Europe and influenced not only by the Eastern but also by the Western culture and especially Yugoslav Communism, the Bosniaks are considered to be some of the more moderate Islamic peoples of the world.

The nation takes pride in the melancholic folk songs sevdalinka, the precious medieval filigree manufactured by old Sarajevo craftsmen, and a wide array of traditional wisdoms that are carried down to newer generations by word of mouth, and in recent years written down in numerous books.

Some famous Bosniaks include:



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  Quote Mila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2005 at 18:56
FAMOUS BOSNIAKS

Deen (born Fuad Backović on April 12, 1982 in Sarajevo) is a prominent and popular singer in Bosnia and Herzegovina.


Fuad Backović has because of his vocal abilities been praised by many among them Davorin Popović, Kemal Monteno, and Hajrudin Vareanović.

Now, Bačković is widely known as Deen and soon after he made the hit song 'Poljubi me' (Kiss Me) with the popular Croatian singer Vlatka Pokos.

In 2004, Deen represented Bosnia and Herzegovina at the 2004 Eurovision Song Contest with the song 'In The Disco'. Deen finished ninth with 91 points and with this result his country would automatically compete at the 2005 Eurovision Song Contest.

Fuad Backović Deen is, besides being popular in Bosnia and Herzegovina and the areas of former Yugoslavia, also popular among the diaspora of former Yugoslavia in Austria, Germany, Switzerland, and Scandinavia.

In spite of being seen almost always with blond hair Deen's natural colour of hair is actually brown and he has blue eyes and is 5'11" (182 cm) tall.

Fuad Backović is studying economy and he is soon expected to have a degree in economy from the University of Sarajevo.


Mak (Mehmedalija) Dizdar (Stolac 1917-Sarajevo 1971) a Bosniak that was probably one of the greatest Yugoslav poets of the 2nd half of the 20th century.

As a poet, Mak Dizdar has in two poetic collections and longer poems, "Kameni spavač"/Stone sleeper (1966-1971) and "Modra rijeka" (1971) achieved magnificent fusion of seemingly disparate elements: inspired by medieval Bosnian tombstones ("stećci" or "mramorovi"/marbles) and their gnomic inscriptions on ephemerality of life, he produced exquisitely structured collection of pregnant verses saturated with his own, intimate, and yet universal vision of life and death that owes much to the Christian and Muslim Gnostic sensibility of life as a passage between "tomb and stars" but not curtailed by any dogma. Dizdar's vision of life and death expresses, paradoxically, both Gnostic horror of corporeality and a sense of blessedness of the entire earth and Universe. Seems that as diverse strands as radiance of Bosnian pre-Ottoman cultural heritage exemplified in writings of Bosnian Christians (followers of the Bosnian Church), sayings of heterodox Islamic visionary mystics and Bosnian vernacular linguistic idiom that fully emerged in 1400s, rich with archaic and spiritual meanings, have fused in a remarkable poetic opus- firmly rooted in Bosnian soil and universal in aesthetic and spiritual eminence.

Mak Dizdar also fought against forced influence of the Serbian language on the Bosnian language, as Dizdar called it, in his article "Marginalije o jeziku i oko njega", Zivot, XIX/11 - 12, Sarajevo, 1970, 109-120.

After the collapse of Communism and following the war in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Dizdar's poetic magnum opus has remained the cornerstone of Bosniak modern literatures.


Isa-Beg Isaković was an Ottoman general and the first governor of the Ottoman province of Bosnia. He ruled during the 1450s and 1460s. He made much of the initial conquests for the Ottomans in the region, and one was one of the then Sultan's most trusted generals. He was succeeded by Gazi Husrev-beg.

As governor of the province of Bosnia, Isa-Beg assured its future prosperity. He founded Sarajevo in 1461 in the former Bosnian province of Vrhbosna. Between then and 1463 he built the core of the city's Old Town district, including a mosque, a closed marketplace, a public bath, a hostel, and the Governor's castle (Saray), which gave the city its present name. He is also responsible for establishing a number of other cities and towns in the region, perhaps most notably Novi Pazar in Serbia and Montenegro.


Zlatan Ibrahimović (born October 3, 1981 in Malm, Skne ln, Sweden) is a Swedish international striker currently playing for Juventus in Italian Serie A.

Born to Bosnian immigrants, efik (Bosniak) and Julka (Bosnian Croat) Ibrahimović, who are from the Tuzla area. Zlatan grew up in a neighbourhood in Malm dominated by immigrants, Rosengrd. He started playing football at the age of 10. His initial club was called FBK Balkan and consisted mostly of immigrants from the Rosengrd neighbourhood. Later, Ibrahimović started professional football with the Swedish club Malm FF in the 1999-2000 season. During his stay at the club, Arsne Wenger tried to persuade him to join Arsenal but Malm did not allow a transfer to occur.

Other than Wenger, Leo Beenhakker was also interested in Ibrahimović after observing the striker practicing in Spain. Beenhakker went back to Amsterdam and on March 22, 2001, a deal between Ajax and Malm regarding Ibrahimović's transfer to Amsterdam was announced and in July of the same year, he joined Ajax for 7.8 million.

Under manager Co Adriaanse, Ibrahimović did not get much exposure. His fortune started to change with the arrival of Ronald Koeman. Since Koeman's arrival, Ibrahimović had consistently been chosen in Ajax's starting lineup.

On August 31, 2004, the final day of the summer transfer window, Ibrahimović moved from Ajax to Juventus for a 16 million transfer fee. Near the end of the Serie A season, where he scored 16 goals, Juve reportedly rejected a 70 million bid for him from Spanish power Real Madrid. This later proved to be nothing more than a PR stunt initiated by Ibrahimović's agent in order to raise his market value. Nonetheless, he is generally conceded to be one of the world's top football talents and was chosen the player of the season in 2004/05 by the fans of Juventus.

On September 9, 2005, in an interview with Swedish tabloid Aftonbladet, he expressed his desire to play for the Bosnia and Herzegovina national football team, saying "If I had a chance, I would switch jerseys within a second." The Football Association of Bosnia and Herzegovina rejected Zlatan in 1999. This has later been confirmed as rumour and hearsay; Zlatan Ibrahimović himself stating, in the tabloid Expressen, that he had never spoken to a journalist from Aftonbladet and that he felt insulted over the allegations.

Zlatan has been nominated to the 2005 FIFA world player of the year along with thirty other top players.

On November 14, 2005 he was awarded Guldbollen, a prize given to the best Swedish footballer of the year.


Ban Kulin (1163-1204) was a powerful Bosnian monarch who ruled from 1180 to 1204, the second semi-independent Bosnian ban.

His rule is often remembered as Bosnia's golden age, and he is a common hero of national folk tales. With the exception of a single military raid against the Byzantine Empire in 1183, Bosnia was in peace throughout his rule. In Kulin's times, the term Bosnia encompassed roughly the lands of Vrhbosna, Usora, Soli, Donji Kraji and Rama, which is approximately equivalent to most of modern Bosnia.

Kulin was aligned with the Bosnian Church, so much that the duke of Zeta and Duklja Vukan Nemanjić reported him to the Pope in 1199 for the heresy. The Catholic Church had the Kingdom of Hungary pressure Kulin about this matter, and subsequently in 1203 he organized a congress in Bilino Polje where he officially declared his allegiance to the Catholic Church and denounced the heresy. However, this was only a political action to avoid a crusade and he countinued to practise heresy, and so did his heiress (until the line of Kotromanić) .


"The Charter of Kulin" is a symbolic "birth certificate" of Bosnian statehood, as it is the first written document that talks of Bosnian borders (between the rivers of Drina, Sava and Una) and of the elements of the Bosnian state: its ruler, throne and political organization. The Charter was a trade agreement between Bosnia and republic of Dubrovnik.


Emina Jahović
, (born January 15th, 1982, Novi Pazar, Serbia) is a popular Bosnian pop singer. She is ethnic Bosniak.


She has completed basic School of Music, performed in the choir of her hometown and took part in the local folklore. While in High School, she took part in several theatre performances, including Antigona. Since some of the roles included singing, she realized that singing her real passion.

In 2000, she won the youth festival Zlatna Staza Golden Path in Montenegro, with the song Samo ti moja muziko. In 2002, Emina took part at Bosnian-Herzegovina National Final BH Eurosong with the song U, la-la. That song was an introduction to her album Tacka Dot composed by Bosnian pop-rock legend Dino Merlin. The album reached a very high popularity in Bosnia-Herzegovina, and other ex-YU states. Hits such as Tacka, Osmi dan, Kad si sa njom, Odbojka,U, la-la made Emina one of the most successful young artists in the former Yugoslavia. In 2002, the song Osmi dan became the silver hit of the Radio Fest BIH 2002. In 2003, she received a Golden star award at the Oskar Popularnosti held in Sarajevo.

Emina is also known as the Bosnian Penelope Cruz, and has been approached by many foreigners in Sarajevo, who thought she was Penelope. Emina is currently a student of Management at the Braca Karic University in Belgrade.




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  Quote Mila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2005 at 19:55

Celebrating Holidays

Bosnians celebrate a number of religious, secular, and family holidays. Especially in the cities, where intermarriage is common, families might celebrate the state New Year holiday, Orthodox and Catholic Christmas, and New Year's Day, along with such purely secular occasions as the Day of the Republic and Tito's birthday. Eastern Orthodox Christian families also celebrate the slava, or saint's name day of the family.

Online cards are a popular way to reach friends and relatives abroad on holidays:






It was extremely common for Bosnians of all religious persuasions, including officially atheist Communists, to celebrate each other's holidays. Catholics would visit Muslim households during Bajram, while Muslims would attend Christmas services with Catholic friends.

Muslim festivities center on Ramadan, the month of ritual fasting associated with the lunar calendar. Exchanging household visits and small gifts is a particular feature of the three days at the end of Ramadan (called Bajram). During this period the minarets of all the mosques (including the uniquely Bosnian lighthouse-style wooden minaret) are illuminated with strings of electric lights.


Public religious occasions, like the 450th anniversary of the Gazi Husrefbey Mosque in Sarajevo (since hit numerous times by Serbian shelling), often attracted quite large crowds.

On a more secular level, weddings are a major time of celebration, as was army induction day, when young men would leave for their compulsory national service. Soccer matches could draw huge crowds of home-team fans surging through the streets, as could the Bosanska Korrida, during which bulls are encouraged to fight one another. This latter festival especially attracted countryfolk.

Folklore festivals and folklore competitions between amateur performing groups were a major feature of contemporary Bosnian life. Bosnian amateur folklore groups, called Cultural Arts Societies, were found throughout the republic. They were required to perform the dance, music, and song folklore of all three major ethnicities in Bosnia as well as the folklore of the other republics of Yugoslavia. Cultural Arts Societies were generally not allowed to perform the folklore of only one ethnic group or republic. Successful performances at local festivities could earn such a society the privilege of performing abroad, generally touring Yugoslav guest worker communities in Western Europe.

In another sense of performance, the Bosnian sense of humor has been a rich one. Jokes about two Bosnian peasants, Suljo and Mujo, were common throughout Bosnia and indeed all of ex-Yugoslavia. In fact, these jokes still appear in Sarajevo under siege, as in the following example:

Suljo sees his friend Mujo swinging back and forth on a child's swing set in the middle of Sarajevo's notorious 'Sniper's Alley.' Dodging from cover to cover, risking life and limb, Suljo finally gets close enough to shout, "Hey, Mujo, what the hell are you doing? Get out of there!" To which Mujo shouts in reply, "I'm harassing a sniper!"



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  Quote Mila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2005 at 19:57
"Bajram is one of the most important holidays in our country. We have much to do before Bajram, because we have to make different kinds of cakes. Everybody prepares BAKLAVA for every Bajram. This is a traditional cake in our country. It's very sweet. During Bajram nobody works, that means children are free and techers are also free. Many people are visiting their families , thier friends and other people. We have a performance in our school and the children and the teachers are very busy because they have to organise everything for the performance. We have two kinds of Bajrams( "sweet Bajram" and When we sacrifice a shep)Unfortunately Bajram is just three or four days."
Jasmina, 13

"There are a lot of holidays in my country , but the most important are Bajrams. There are two Bajrams. They are religious holidays. We celebrate Bajram for four days. Last bajram was in January 19th 1999. The first day is the most important. After morning prayer men come in our houses. They are usually our cousins, friends and other acquaintances. Then we all together have lunch. Mothers always make a lot of food and also a lot of different kinds of cakes. The main cake is BAKLAVA. It is Bosnian cake and also it is very delicious. You should try it. All my family is getting together and every house is full of people. My family is very big. We , children get some money. Second day we to the cemetery. I don't like cemeteries. There are a lot of them here in Bosnia because a many young people died in the war. On 29th of March second Bajram comes. We are looking forward to it."
Zijada, 13
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  Quote Mila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2005 at 20:17
Islamic cemeteries in Bosnia and Herzegovina often have unique 'turbe', or monuments.



These have been used for many purposes over the years, most notably as markers to point the direction to Mecca for prayers.
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  Quote Mila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2005 at 20:50
the cost of GENOCIDE
I N  A  B O S N I A N  V I L L A G E



The Omarska concentration camp became the most infamous of all the detention and concentration camps that operated on the territory of Bosnia and Herzegovina between 1992 and 1995.

The unspeakable tortures inflicted upon men and women in this camp led one Israeli intellectual to comment, "If Hitler had used the same tactics against the Jews as the fascist forces used against Bosnian Muslims it would have taken him centuries to kill six million".

To offer a few examples: soldiers organized gladiator style battles to the death between prisonners, usually making sure the two men fighting were related or otherwise close. Several women were raped using pieces of the bodies of their husbands. More than a few porents were forced to bite off the sexual organs of their children.

The Hambarine area is where many of Omarska's survivors now life, and where many of the camp's victims once did.





Every year survivors, their relatives, and the relatives of the victims visit the factory where the Omarska camp was located. They carry photos of the men and women who lost their lives there and protest for the world community to implement some form of prosecution against the individual soldiers responsible and bring about some form of justice.







While Muslims in the Hambarine area were largely rural and traditional before the war, this was cultural as opposed to religious. Now even the most secular-looking residents of this area often hold deeply negative views of Christianity based largely on what they what they experienced. Imams have taken passages from the Koran and used them to fuel this negativity in a religious way as well.

Nowhere is this more evident than at the local cemetery where families gather to honor the camp's victims and listen to speeches calling for everything from truth and reconciliation with their Catholic and Eastern Orthodox neighbors to complete and total destruction of Christianity in the region.









Now that the factory has been sold and may soon be up and running in its pre-war capacity and for its pre-war purpose, residents of the area are furious. They are begging the Bosnian government to halt the plans until some form of permanant memorial at the site can be established and agreed upon with the buyers.


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  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2005 at 21:52
Were the Bosnians always this liberal?  Or was it a reflection of Communism?
The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
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  Quote Mila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2005 at 22:01
Both, really.

Communism did not change our culture that much and most of Bosnia's Islamic practices continue to be culturally-based.

It has changed how we express religion, however. A woman who wears no veil today would have worn a typical, Bosniak-style veil before communism. A woman who wears a veil today would've worn a full Ottoman burka, as in this photo of Sarajevo taken in 1920:



But for the most part, even though it looked drastically different, our culture was the same as it is today. Most of the progress made in terms of women's rights and so on were made before the People's Federal Republic of Yugoslavia was established in 1945.
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  Quote ill_teknique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2005 at 23:15
The last report for Turks of Bosnian desceant said between 4-5 million.
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  Quote OSMANLI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2005 at 04:25

Anouther great topic

Just a few questions though:

  1. From pictures from various topics it seems to me that the Bosniaks are very family orientated, would i be right in saying so?
  2. Many of the women in the religious cermons are wearing the hijab, do many do this becouse of the religious significance of the occasion or do many wear it on a normal basis?
  3. I seen quite a few times a green flag with a white crecent and moon, is this the Bosniak flag or rather a universal flag representing all Muslims?
  4. How much of an estimate fast during Ramadan?

From what i have read i belive that many Bosniaks consider Islam as a cultural factor. For example one of the ladies considered the veil to be an Arab custom, which is not the case since historically the women of Arabia were not wearing the hijab as a protection from men untill after the coming of the Qur'an. Ironically the lady that said this was a DJ  at a bar, as mentioned in your article. With this in mind would you consider tat the many Bosniaks have some what of a misconception of what Islam trully is and the rulings to it. From personal experiance i know that in the TRNC many Turks have their misconceptions too.

Again, a great topic. I have learnt a lot about my Bros/Sis in Bosnia thanks to you, Mashallah. Keep the good work up.

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  Quote erci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2005 at 04:58
Nice read, you were already convinced me about Bosnia's beauty and its unique culture

Originally posted by ill_teknique

The last report for Turks of Bosnian desceant said between 4-5 million.


it doesn't sound too accurate to me, any article or link to share this info? they mostly live in Western Turkey, it's like saying %25 of western Turkey have Bosnian desceant
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  Quote ill_teknique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2005 at 08:44
Originally posted by erci

Nice read, you were already convinced me about Bosnia's beauty and its unique culture

Originally posted by ill_teknique

The last report for Turks of Bosnian desceant said between 4-5 million.


it doesn't sound too accurate to me, any article or link to share this info? they mostly live in Western Turkey, it's like saying %25 of western Turkey have Bosnian desceant


Either way 2 or 5 million i like either number
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  Quote Mila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2005 at 10:09
Originally posted by OSMANLI

From pictures from various topics it seems to me that the Bosniaks are very family orientated, would i be right in saying so?


It's not something that is unique to Bosniaks in this region, but yes - family is very important. The closest similar culture that most people already have an understanding of would be Italy. It's not abnormal at all for a Bosniak mother to call her children 5 or 6 times a day for 30 second conversations.

"Hey, where are you?"

"I'm at the cafe with Irna, Mama!"

"Okay, good! Don't eat too much I'm making dinner!"

"Yes, bye!"

"Bye!"

People tend to be very loyal to their friends and family - you can see this especially among war criminals. Half of the people who hide and protect war criminals in this region could not commit the crimes these people carried out if you tortured their families until they did. This is again common to all groups. You look out for your family.

There is also an element of honor in all this as well, similar to what you might find in Pakistan or India. Especially the older generations are very, very concerned about what people in their neighborhoods think of the family.

Say a wife learns that one of the neighbors has said: "Oh that Katija, she's sure cheerful now that she's married! So cheerful she has two asses! I don't know what her husband is doing!"

Katija would probably buy a corset, get everything professionally tucked in, drag a table out into the street in front of the house, and organize dinner there. She'd be constantly making sure everyone see's she's not as fat as this woman said.

And so on.


Originally posted by OSMANLI

Many of the women in the religious cermons are wearing the hijab, do many do this becouse of the religious significance of the occasion or do many wear it on a normal basis?


While women are not expected to wear a veil in day-to-day life (many Bosniak men would openly refuse to date a woman who did, it's considered a sign of a 'primitive view of life' here), it's still very important to wear a veil during religious events - especially anything to do with victims of the war, or any war, or any natural death.

It's usually very easy to tell actually. Most women who normally don't wear a veil will show their neck when they wear one. Either they'll tie it behind their head, or leave it handing loosely down to their collarbone. Most women who cover their neck usually do wear a veil. Women who wear a veil with modern clothing usually don't wear one. Women who wear a veil that is white (this is a special occassion color) usually don't wear one. All these general rules, though, have at least 35% exceptions.

Originally posted by OSMANLI

I seen quite a few times a green flag with a white crecent and moon, is this the Bosniak flag or rather a universal flag representing all Muslims?


It's considered as a Bosniak flag but it is different than the one specifically for us. We did have a flag like this during the Ottoman Empire, though.

Originally posted by OSMANLI

How much of an estimate fast during Ramadan?


A lot of people fast, actually. This often has more to do with their parents saying, "Get that f--king pastry out of your mouth before the neighbors think we're a bunch of pagans!" than a real religious desire to do so. A lot of people don't fast but attendance at the mosque spikes and life tends to be very quiet during the day. At nights everyone celebrates - it's not always at people's homes anymore either. A lot of nightclubs will offer fast-breaking food and celebrations.
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  Quote Beylerbeyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2005 at 16:12

The last report for Turks of Bosnian desceant said between 4-5 million.

I think it is possible for 5 million Turks to have Yugoslav Muslim (mostly Bosnian) ancestory. But, I don't think 5 million have PURE Yugoslav ancestory, i.e. 5 million could have one or more great-grandparents from over there, but not all eight.

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  Quote Jay. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2005 at 18:06
Great topic.

Just one question I never got a straight answer in:  wern't the bosnians converted to the Islamic Faith by the Turkish long ago?
Samo Sloga Srbina Spasava
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  Quote ill_teknique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2005 at 21:16
Originally posted by Beylerbeyi

The last report for Turks of Bosnian desceant said between 4-5 million.

I think it is possible for 5 million Turks to have Yugoslav Muslim (mostly Bosnian) ancestory. But, I don't think 5 million have PURE Yugoslav ancestory, i.e. 5 million could have one or more great-grandparents from over there, but not all eight.



Thats what I'm thinking, too.
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  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2005 at 21:47
Hey Mila, are you also Muslim?
The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
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  Quote amir khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2005 at 22:46

Originally posted by Afghanan

Hey Mila, are you also Muslim?

 

If there are two things we know for sure by now, they are that Mila is a bosniak and a muslim.

 

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  Quote Cent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2005 at 08:37
Thanks Mila for a wonderful thread!
They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
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