Ancestry of Pakistani ethnic groups

I know there's another thread up on Greek ancestry of ethnic groups that goes into some of this, but it's a bit messy and this thread is to look at the any likely ancestries of all ethnic groups in the region (which might be a bit much as there's so many of them). 

It's possible using Y-chrom. STR markers, to also determine ancestral connections, which can be used in conjunction with haplogroupings from databases. Here's the first one I've looked at, Pakistani Pathan.

DYS19, DYS389A, DYS389B, DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS385, DYS438, DYS439 are the STR's used.

The Pakistani Pathan Y-chromo. STR's share more similarity with the Byelorussian Y-STR's than with neighbouring ethnic group STR's along with a huge gap between the two regions where there's no commonality at all with the Pakistani Pathan repeats. Here are some graphs.

EDIT: DATA INCORRECT.

3) STR sequence, 15/13/30/25/11/11/13/-1/-1/-1

(DYS19, DYS389A, DYS389B, DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS385, DYS438, DYS439)

1 = Byelorussia = 2 / 70

2 = Pakistani Burusho = 1 / 90

3 = Pakistani Pathan = 4 / 90

This is roughly equivalent to 3 in every 100 Byelorussians, 4 in every 100 Pakistani Pathans and 1 in every 100 Pakistani Burusho. The frequency of this particular sequence is high and similar in Byelorussians and Pakistani Pathans.

4) Haplogroups of Byelorussians would contain haplogroup I. This hasnt been determined for sure whether it's present in Pakistani Pathan, though some studies have suggested it's present, which has been quoted elsewhere. The modal haplotypes of I1b do seem to be present in the ethnic group however.

The Byelorussian and Pakistani Pathan Y-chromsome STR seem close together, perhaps 10% similarity for these markers, which would exclude any subsequent mutations that occurred since the hypothetical split in this example. Agree/disagree with this analysis? Significant/insignificant association would you say?   

Originally posted by Maju Do you notice that 3-4% is an irrelevant percentage? What about the other 96%?

Lol..Well, alright, I havent looked into this that closely so I might be wrong, but the graphs shown illustrate the precise correlation between STR's in each population. I'm not sure what the mutation rate is for STRs but it's pretty high (I think something like 1 in 3000 meioses). Anyway, it doesnt matter. The point is that you can see the Byelorussian group and the other Slavic groups. You would expect them to have the closest common ancestor of the Byelorussians. But they dont match up at all, showing that even a 4% (it's more like 10% though), similarity is quite significant in this case, I think..

I didnt really explain it. Basically I got the figure of 10 % from the first map on the list.

Add all frequencies up and you get 11 %. That's for the Bylorussian STR s in common with the Pakistani Pathan STRs mentioned there only (51 %). So perhaps in 100%, there'd actually be around about 22% commonality between the two Y-chrom. haplotypes?

The 4 % and 3% you've mentioned was only for 1 STR sequence. As you can see in the graph above, there are many STR sequences. So, 3% of the populations share a 15/13/30/25/11/11/13/-1/-1/-1 sequence, but then another 2% say share a 15/13/30/23/11/11/13/-1/-1/-1 sequence. So it adds up. DYS markers generally mutate and so there's a spread of closely associated (within one or two STRs) STRs. The percentage has only used exact STR sequences. One could easily expect at least one mutation in any of these STR sequences, so +/- 1 STR could also be included. This will of course give you a huge range of possibilities, which would end up covering most of Eastern Europe probably. That's why such precise correlations are important, however small, in my opinion.

Even if you adjust one of the STR s you still get virtually the same pattern of only two places in the world where the adjusted +-1 STR sequence appears, those two being Byelorussia and Pakistan. I dont think all this is just an example of a Metal Age drift of Indo-Europeans southward from somewhere East of the Caspian Sea. The Y-chromosome STRs are precisely related in I would probably guess about 22 % of the populations. The significance of it is that you dont find any Byelorussian commonality with the surrounding Slavic nations, but some 22% commonality with the Pakistan Pathan Y-chromsom STRs.

This all requires Haplogroup I to be expressed in the Pakistani Pathan population, which I still cant find much reference to (some articles but not sure how valid they are).

Again, the significance of the results are that none of the Slavic nations around Byelorussia share the same STRs. I might agree with you if this wasnt the case.

Well, yes, that's what I'm saying. The two populations have a degree of common antescendency. How much I havent worked out. I'd give each sequence +/- 1 STR, which could amount to a lot more similarity. For example, by ignoring DYS385 groupings most of Eastern Europe would have some similarity with Pakistani Pathans. I'm not sure how important this marker is, if I find out, it will help determine how valid the findings are.

I'll see what happens when I use two other different populations, just to give you an idea. 

Where was the 'Pathan' blood taken from?  I have seen genetic studies of Pakistani Pathans from a Pathan that was from Karachi.  Also, when this study was done, what makes it prove that "Pathans" are from this common ancestor in Eurasia. 

What about the Afghans on the other side of the border.  If you look at the Pashtun tribal chart you will see lots of different tribes, some of them being adopted like the Ormuris, Khilji/Ghilzai, Hazara, Uzbeks, and Nuristanis, and almost all of Pashtun tribes are heavily mixed.   The ones in Pakistan are just as equally mixed, especially those on the fringe of Punjab, Balochistan, and Sindh.