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1000th execution in the USA

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Cezar View Drop Down
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  Quote Cezar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 1000th execution in the USA
    Posted: 13-Dec-2005 at 13:23

Are the USA trying to force other countries to adopt death sentence?

Are the citizens of the USA OK with death sentence. (well, at least most of them)

Do the US citizens stick to the idea of holding firearms?

You don't like it, you don't go there. You accept it, keep quiet. You like it, go there and get a gun.

The criminals must undergo a punishment, it seems that everyone agree to that. The punishment is according to the law. If the law in USA states that some criminals would be sentenced to death, according to their crime, then those who commit those crimes should go out of the US. They may be welcome by those who say that death sentence is not OK. "OK, c'mon you guys, here you can kill someone and not be killed if we arrest you. Do your job!"

*If you daughter/girlfriend/mother/father/best friend would be killed by some individual, what would you think the appropriate punishment for that individual would be?

 

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  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 05:43

Cesar, this is a simplistic approach. Things are much more complicated. The laws of a country are there to protect it's citizens and are valid as long as the citizens accept them. The anti-death movement tries to win public support in that direction and debate that the law in wrong.

You seem to suggest that the death penalty prevents criminals from killing our "daughers/girlfriend/mother/father/best friend (btw, what about the rest of our families, like cousins/aunts/my sister-in-law's second cousin from her mother's side etc ?), what you fail to address is the fact that in most of the countries of the world that the death penalty is abolished, the crime rates are far lower than these of the US and other countries that the death penalty is active. 

Death penalty doesn't prevent crime, it simply offers revenge. Not a motive that I'd like the society I live in to based upon!

Not to mention the fact that there are proven cases of innocent people who were executed and their innocence wasn't proven until after their death. IMM nothing can justify the killing of human beings. 

 



Edited by Yiannis
The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics

Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
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  Quote lennel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 13:41
One thing I've personally always noticed about history;  no execution really makes me feel relieved or that a situation was better.  I can't think of a single one where i've gone "oh good, imagine if they hadn't....things would've been alot worse"
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  Quote Cezar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 13:51
Originally posted by Yiannis

Cesar, this is a simplistic approach. Things are much more complicated. The laws of a country are there to protect it's citizens and are valid as long as the citizens accept them. The anti-death movement tries to win public support in that direction and debate that the law in wrong.

You seem to suggest that the death penalty prevents criminals from killing our "daughers/girlfriend/mother/father/best friend (btw, what about the rest of our families, like cousins/aunts/my sister-in-law's second cousin from her mother's side etc ?), what you fail to address is the fact that in most of the countries of the world that the death penalty is abolished, the crime rates are far lower than these of the US and other countries that the death penalty is active. 

Death penalty doesn't prevent crime, it simply offers revenge. Not a motive that I'd like the society I live in to based upon!

Not to mention the fact that there are proven cases of innocent people who were executed and their innocence wasn't proven until after their death. IMM nothing can justify the killing of human beings. 

The approach was deliberately simplistic. I just wanted to underline some basic elements. I know things don't work that way. I've never been to the USA so I have no direct knowledge of what is life out there. I must rely on the news, the books, the movies and the tales of those who have been out there.

The laws are to protect the citizens of a country. True, but if you ask a citizen about the laws he knows a very few of them. Law is a system. I am confronted every day with laws or, to be more specific, interpretation of legal statements. I am certain that death penalty doesn't reduce the crime rate. If those who are making the laws in the US would decide that it is useless then to the bin with it. As long as it remains ....

Most offenders of the law don't think about punishment when they break the law. They usually think that they would get away with it. Some are even not aware that they broke the law. Some others, if caught, are blaming the system for their deeds.

Death penalty is only revenge, but revenge is what most people seek when hurt. The murderer death won't bring back the victim, but those close to the victim? Are they looking for justice or revenge? Emotions and moral values don't go along fine always. I'll give you an example, something that happened to me: I was waiting for my girlfriend in Herastrau, a large park in Bucharest. It was dark and she was jumped by two thugs. I don't know if they wanted to rob her or rape her or just to have fun. All I know is I heard her screaming, rushed in and beat those two. I was in a berserk state, if she wouldn't had stopped me I might have killed one of them. I didn't stopped to tell those idiots they were breaking the law and they would be punished according to their deeds, or that what they were doing was wrong. Like I said, sometimes, emotions get in the way of civilized behaviour.

The legal system is not perfect. Not out there, in the US, not anywhere in this world. Innocents would still be punished for crimes they didn't commited. It's a fact that won't change. There can't be a perfect system. It's something like collateral damage in a war: neither the pilot who dropped the bombs or those who planned the mission intended to kill innocents. Yet it happened. It is not fine, or good, and I totally disagree it. But things like this happen. Our world is not perfect. It is good to talk about banning the war, the crime, the death penalty. Maybe someday all people will come to an agreement regarding what's right and wrong and act according to those concepts. I doubt that this will happen during my life.

As for an idealistic thought: Would the death penalty have any sense if there were no criminals?

And another: New forum on AoE - "Wars: discussions about war, something that is no more"

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Genghis View Drop Down
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  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 19:10
Originally posted by Cezar

Are the USA trying to force other countries to adopt death sentence?

Good point, the US doesn't stick it's nose into this sort of business in Europe, yet many Europeans feel that it's okay for them to stick their noses into the legal workings of the United States, and even in some cases interfere with our legal system by refusing to extradite criminals who might face the death penalty.

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  Quote Loknar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 20:05

Thats a damn good point Genghis.

 

In any event, we return the favor by executing their own citizens who have murdered in our country.

 

btw, arent they obligated to turn over people because of extradition treaties?

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  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2005 at 13:58
Originally posted by Loknar

btw, arent they obligated to turn over people because of extradition treaties?

Not if there's reasonable risk for them to face the death penalty. It's illegal in all EU countries and if a country legalizes death penalty it may face expulsion from the union.
The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics

Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
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