Study of history

Hey all,

    Many of us are familiar with the various dynasties of various East Asian countries, but I can't help but think that we're taking this knowledge quite for granted.  So what are the real sources of this knowledge?  This question might be too professional for most of us here, but I hope that some of you guys can contribute (it's been a problem plaguing my mind for a while now.)  For example, how do we know that there really was a Han or Sung or Ly or Choson dynasty?  People would immediately say that, "it's ridiculous to say that there wasn't," but how do we really know?  I know there are tons of historical documents, but have we verified them?  Can we simply take for granted what modern historians say?  I'm not doubting conventional wisdom here, I'm trying to re-examine it to see how much of it we can prove.  Like I said, I've been troubled by this question, so please help me out here.

Peace,

Michael

9-29-2004

Hey demon,

    Interesting thought, but can you give me some examples of what you're talking about here?  thanks.

Peace,

Michael

9-29-2004

Wow, that's getting philosophical, Mengtzu?  I feel like I am being asked if I can prove 1+1 =2.

I guess the real way to prove it is through archeology.  And most of these dynasties have been proven to exist.

 

Edited by hansioux

Hey Hansioux,

    You are the second person to confuse my concern with philosophy.  My preoccupation here has nothing to do with philosophy -- how to interpret events, whether things have pattern, etc. -- I'm solely interested in the ascertaining of facts.  How do we do that.  Archeology is good but it works no better than clues art a crime scene: you desperately try to piece a big picture together, but even if you succeed, a freezed frame of the past can really tell so much.  I rather opt for written documents.  They are not without problems, but at least they are better at attempting to give acnedotal accounts and therefore give a more complete picture.  We just need avoid insisting on their interpretative comments.

Peace,

Michael

9-30-2004

Hey Hansioux,

    You can say that.  My point is that my concern isn't some abstract ontological issue of "how do we know if things have qualities," that sorta thing.  My question is really simple: show me the citations for the history books we're using.  That's really it.  I'm just wary of reading historical textbooks telling fascinating stories without ever showing, "oh, that was from the Shiji."

Peace,

Michael

9-30-2004

Hey Hansioux,

    Well, what I mean is the average history books you buy, or the history websites you find.  Sure, they have a sickeningly long list of bibliography, but lo and behold: it's a list of other writers!  How the heck do I know who "John Beck" is and what his "Development of Chinese Culture" was about, and how is it helpful that this citing will help me find the source?  I mean, yeah, I'm supposed to get that book and read it, but I'm afraid that might just refer me to more books like that.  Sick of that crap man.  And then you look at a lot of books that just plainly talk about chronological history -- not a single source.  Especially the Chinese ones.  bleh.  There's a reason why we aren't winning Nobel prices.

Peace,

Michael

9-30-2004

Hey Hansioux,

    Oh nuts, there isn't?

Peace,

Michael

9-30-2004

Hey Gubuk,

    Haha, let's not get into too deep a tangent here.  My point was merely how the writers of conventional history books get their sources in the first place.  I'm not saying they are to be doubted: I'm just asking for information they should be able to readily give.

Peace,

Michael

10-3-2004

Originally posted by MengTzu Weird.  I just made this reply and it didn't go all the way to the top.

It's probably because of our time problems...

Lol I didn't mean to get that out of it..but it was late at night...and I had a lot of HW...lol

How did the eldars get their sources?  I'm thinking legend and oral tradition.  Perhaps they made up some of their stuff...perhaps like ancient ultra-nationalists. 

Hey Gubuk,

    I'm not talking about the elders -- I'm not talking about how, say, Sima Qian first got is sources.  Guys, I'm talking about something so insanely simple (and I think you guys missed my point because it's so simple that we never think about it.)  I mean, like, where did so and so textbook published by so and so publisher, and it's a book used by high schools to teach history, where did they get their sources.  Of course I don't expect anyone to know this so specifically, but I mean, where did conventional history come from in the first place?

Peace,

Michael

10-4-2004