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Researching the decline of the Roman Empire

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Researching the decline of the Roman Empire
    Posted: 20-Nov-2005 at 12:11

I'm doing a research paper on the above mentioned topic with emphasis on the western empire.  I know Gibbons has some ideas but are there any good sources out there to check out in any type of publication to further my research?  Or any thoughts from the forum would be fine too.

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  Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2005 at 13:16
There are hundreds of books about the decline of the roman empire; you only need a general book about Roman empire or look the bibliography of that books. The Gibbon theory is absolutelly obsolete, you must be update 
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  Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2005 at 17:05
Gibbon is nice to read and he gets most of his facts right. His interpretation however leaves much to be desired.
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Nov-2005 at 00:17
Gibbon is a nice piece of prose, but has a very slanted perspective. John Julius Norwich is very good if you are a beginner to the topic, Dio Cassius is a very good source of the early years of the decline, Cyril Mango is good if you want to progress into the construction and makeup of the Byzantine state.
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  Quote Priscus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2005 at 18:56
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  Quote Heraclius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2005 at 21:21

^^^ Why do you keep posting about the same thing Priscus?  i've seen atleast 2 topics about *attilas capital* locked throughout the forum already.

A tomb now suffices him for whom the world was not enough.
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2005 at 01:41
Yes, and trolling is a ban-worthy offence............
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  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2005 at 08:22
Originally posted by Scourge of God

I'm doing a research paper on the above mentioned topic with emphasis on the western empire.  I know Gibbons has some ideas but are there any good sources out there to check out in any type of publication to further my research?  Or any thoughts from the forum would be fine too.

Look for this one:  Arthur Ferrill.  The Fall of the Roman Empire, the Military Explanation.  (New York, Thames & Hudson, 1986)

Good info and thesis on the army in the late Western Empire.

Sorry I don't have the ISBN.

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  Quote Priscus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2005 at 11:54

heh just trying to get any comment. most people don't live here and select their area of interest or wait until they recieve an email on a post.

generally something that would rewrite or solidify a point  in history is of some interest but due to the frailties and laziness of mankind [seemingly most pronounced in the purveyors and consumers of walmart history] action must be stimulated by creating a tipping point or clearing the forest of trees for the short.

ban me if you will. would i weep, no. it may make another interesting footnote. time and broad publication is on my side.

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  Quote Heraclius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2005 at 13:35

 The gibberish you posted above just makes it more obvious that your a troll, whether or not you weep I couldnt care less. Your posts have been locked from what I can see so your advertising of your post has merely gained the interest of mods who don't look to kindly on forum trolls.

 Anymore gibberish you'd like to contribute before the *inevitable*?

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  Quote Priscus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2005 at 14:33

sounds like you'd think it was gibberish. wow are you in control of the forum?

you don't really know how a forum works do you? you 12 or 13 now?

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  Quote Byzantine Emperor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2005 at 12:23
Originally posted by Priscus

generally something that would rewrite or solidify a point  in history is of some interest but due to the frailties and laziness of mankind [seemingly most pronounced in the purveyors and consumers of walmart history] action must be stimulated by creating a tipping point or clearing the forest of trees for the short.

ban me if you will. would i weep, no. it may make another interesting footnote. time and broad publication is on my side.

Originally posted by Heraclius

The gibberish you posted above just makes it more obvious that your a troll, whether or not you weep I couldnt care less. Your posts have been locked from what I can see so your advertising of your post has merely gained the interest of mods who don't look to kindly on forum trolls.

 Anymore gibberish you'd like to contribute before the *inevitable*?

I would call it gibberish and intellectual snobbery.  

Heh, I haven't seen a Byzantine history book in Wal-Mart or in any other department store in my entire life!

Originally posted by Priscus

sounds like you'd think it was gibberish. wow are you in control of the forum?

you don't really know how a forum works do you? you 12 or 13 now?

Last time I checked, twelve and thirteen year-olds were taught proper grammar and punctuation in middle school and high school!  Try observing these rules while typing. 

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  Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2005 at 17:28
"The Later Roman Empire"        by A. H. M. Jones (this is a masterpiece)
"The Decline of Rome"    by Joseph Vogt
"The World of late Antiquity ad 150-750"    by Peter Brown
"The Later Roman Empire ad 284-430"       by Averil Cameron
"Passages from Antiquity to Feudalism"      by Perry Anderson (marxist, he talk about the fall of the western state in "4. Rome")
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  Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Dec-2005 at 13:43
"Civilisation and Climate" by E. Hungtington. A climatic explanation

"Manpower shortage and the Fall of the Roman Empire in the West" by A. E. R. Boak; about the demographic decline.

"The Decline of the Roman Empire in the West", by F. W. Walbank; marxist.

"The Decline of the Ancient World" again A. H. M. Jones.

"The Myth of the Rome's Fall" by R. M. Haywood; he is centred in internal political affaires

"Christianity and the Decline of the Roman Empire", by A. Momigliano; about the power of the Church and her negative influence (this is his theory...)


I can post the years and others works, but i havn't time
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2005 at 20:39
Well from what I know Hannibal was the first real threat to the downfall of Rome, but after being defeated by Scipio back in Carthage, Rome regained balance for a while although drained financially. The real start of descent I think was around 49 B.C when Caesar crossed the Rubicon and marched on Rome creating Civil War...and it just went on untill Augustus came into power and named Rome an Empire and after Masada rebellion was more and more common and after Hadrian when Germans attacked the Empire in 166 A.D. Rome was back on the defensive...then further being attacked by other barbarians slowly caused it to crumble. Then in 260 A.D. when Valerian was taken prisoner by Shapur...that is where I think the Empire was really doomed. Please dont make fun of me I am trying to sound smart using all my notes I have been writing watching library movies I have cheked out  < ="text/">ZwXxso(1,"var SymTmpWinOpen = window.open; window.open = SymWinOpen; ZwXTimeout('enableDesignMode()', 20);; window.open = SymTmpWinOpen;");
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  Quote Imperator Invictus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2005 at 20:47
Caesar's time had not even marked the height of the Roman Empire in terms of military, population, and economy. So I wouldn't put the decline earlier than the height.

I don't think the Western Empire was doomed until 378 C.E. 

Edited by Imperator Invictus
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2005 at 20:52
Yes but wasn't Caesar one of the greatest military generals? Governing three provences of Gaul and conquering the rest, killing one million Gauls? I don't know much about Ancient Rome yet but I believe Caesars time was a very high point < ="text/">ZwXxso(1,"var SymTmpWinOpen = window.open; window.open = SymWinOpen; ZwXTimeout('enableDesignMode()', 20);; window.open = SymTmpWinOpen;");
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  Quote Imperator Invictus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2005 at 20:58
Caesar's time was not a high point because the Roman state had not reached its maximum extent; its military had not reached its most efficient level; its infrastructure had not been clearly established (hence the civil war), and its economy was not close to what it later became.

As for Caesar himself, I think he is one of the most exaggerated figures in history. There were many Romans greater than he, but we all love Caesar because of the abundance of information from his time period.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2005 at 21:04
Oh, thanks for explaining When would you say it's highest point was?

I have just read Julius Caesar in Honors English and the play itself I think mocks him and marks him as a fool as well. But yes, I still love Caesar!!!
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  Quote Imperator Invictus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2005 at 21:51
Generally, it's considered to be the time from Augustus to the death of Marcus Aurelius. 
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