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Best goverment

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Poll Question: What is the best form of goverment
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
1 [2.17%]
3 [6.52%]
3 [6.52%]
21 [45.65%]
1 [2.17%]
0 [0.00%]
1 [2.17%]
5 [10.87%]
3 [6.52%]
8 [17.39%]
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Genghis Khan II View Drop Down
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  Quote Genghis Khan II Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Best goverment
    Posted: 19-Nov-2005 at 17:20

I was just wondering what people thought

If I didnt put all of them then sorry but those were all I knew

Evolution is dead they just forgot to bury the body.

Logic is the best kind of evedence, science is only second best.
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Infidel View Drop Down
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  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2005 at 17:28
Democracy, of course.
An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2005 at 17:41
This is a little odd list of choices. Democracy does not exclude constitutional monarchy, republic, constitutional republic, or even communism. Republic does not exclude communisme, dictatorship, and constitutional republic. etc.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2005 at 17:44
There are mistakes in the poll choices:

● Anarchy is not a form of government. It's more like a system where there is no government.

● Dictatorship is a republic where there is no democracy.

● Communism is a system that you can establish in a republic.

Edited by Barış
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Perseas View Drop Down
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  Quote Perseas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2005 at 18:05
Well, while i cant say democracy necessarily matches my definition of ideal government, it is the best possible government that we can establish.  On another point there appears to be some ethnocentrism usually at topics like that. Most of the times the majority are Westerners who have lived under democracy all their lives. Whether democracy is the best form of government for all countries around the world, is different to whether it is the best form of government for the West.
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  Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2005 at 19:10
The best and worst forms of government are dictatorships. If the dictator is benevolent and giving, the people will benefit more from his rule than under any other form of government. If the dictator is selfish, he will enhance his power as much as he can, making the people suffer in turn. I think it was Aristotle or Socrates that said something along those lines, although im not sure which one.
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  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2005 at 19:35
I had a History teatcher who used to say that the best form of government was an illuminated despotism
An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2005 at 19:46
I agree with ArmenianSurvival.

I know that dictatorship does not have a negative meaning...

But let's call the good dictatorship authoritarian leadership, and call the bad one simply dictatorship.

Edited by Barış
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  Quote Genghis Khan II Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2005 at 20:20

Originally posted by Barış

There are mistakes in the poll choices:

● Anarchy is not a form of government. It's more like a system where there is no government.

● Dictatorship is a republic where there is no democracy.

● Communism is a system that you can establish in a republic.

I put anarchy in because there are some people, most notably american teens, who think anarchy is the way to go

I put those other ones because there are some major diferences in them

Some people dont know that and would vote "other"

Evolution is dead they just forgot to bury the body.

Logic is the best kind of evedence, science is only second best.
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OSMANLI View Drop Down
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  Quote OSMANLI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2005 at 10:30

Sharia.

The form of government used by the Caliph Umar.

It has proved its self many a time as a success when applied fully. Just look at the first four caliphs. Howabout Moorish Spain.

When ever they started to leave the way of the Sharia then their downfall was obvious.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2005 at 10:39
Are you joking? I think it is one of the worst systems.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2005 at 12:52
democracy..
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  Quote OSMANLI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2005 at 13:00

Baris, please explain why. You can not make such a negative comment with out backing your thoughts. I really would like to know since all i see is beauty with the Sharia political system

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  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2005 at 13:18
Depends my friend. I find the islamic juridisprudence rather questionable. Cutting robber's hand off, stoning or slashing adulterers to death or even death penalty for apostasy are quite barbaric, IMO. This sharia, no thanks. Freedom of choice and of speech, please. 

Edited by Infidel
An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2005 at 14:10
OSMANLI, I think Infidel's words spoke for me this time.

Don't get me wrong. I am not against Islam, but any system that's under some kind of religious influence.
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  Quote OSMANLI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2005 at 14:29

If you look at the facts the Shariet system was revolutionary in the field of womens rights.

The Sharia system promotes equality between races.

The Muslim empires under a TRUE Sharia system have been well documented, even in the west for their excelent relations with their Kafir (non-Muslim) citizens. When Christain Spain (under a monarchy regime) was expelling the Jews from Spain it was the Muslims who gave them a home, thus complying with the rules of the Sharia. Muslims following the Sharia will never forcefully enforce Islam on Kafirs.

Muslim nations with Shariet law have low crime rates. (Note: no Muslim country at present follows the doctrines of the Sharia 100%, thus their failings cannot be blamed upon this system)

Past empires following a Sharia systems have excelled in various non-religious field, Science, Mathematic, astronomy etc

Freedom of speech is allowed, aslong as there comments are in a way that is trying for the progress of the nation. Thus comments that promote racism, terrorism, prejedice etc will not be allowed. A women in the time of the Caliph Umar once disagreed with the doing of the Caliph. She decided to put across view by shouting to the Caliph "Umar, fear Allah". One of the Caliph's freinds was angered and wanted thewomen punished. Instead Caliph Umar said that what the women has said is positive and was correct in doing so. The Caliph thanks to the women then decided on a more better route for his decision.

The points that i have put across is what i think of when i think of the Sharia political system.



Edited by OSMANLI
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2005 at 14:56
Originally posted by OSMANLI

If you look at the facts the Shariet system was revolutionary in the field of womens rights.


When compared to Pre-Islamic Arabs? Yes.

When compared to Pre-Islamic Turks? Definitely not.
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  Quote OSMANLI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2005 at 15:00

When compared to the majority of the pre-Islami world, esp. Europe? Yes.

How about the rest, do you approve or disaprove?



Edited by OSMANLI
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Perseas View Drop Down
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  Quote Perseas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2005 at 15:01

Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival

The best and worst forms of government are dictatorships. If the dictator is benevolent and giving, the people will benefit more from his rule than under any other form of government. If the dictator is selfish, he will enhance his power as much as he can, making the people suffer in turn. I think it was Aristotle or Socrates that said something along those lines, although im not sure which one.

It will be a blessing, a person with the greatest possible combination of benevolence, wisdom, compassion, integrity, etc to have the power of a dictator. The country would become far much better but the problem arises where to find such a man. If you look at it objectively, it might be possible to find a person like that but subjectively it isn't. Btw it wasnt only Aristotle who spoke about this but also Plato in his Republic who suggested that Philosophers ought to lead a society to a kinda benevolent dictatorship in order to take humanity into the light.

A mathematician is a person who thinks that if there are supposed to be three people in a room, but five come out, then two more must enter the room in order for it to be empty.
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2005 at 15:18
Originally posted by Barış

There are mistakes in the poll choices:

● Anarchy is not a form of government. It's more like a system where there is no government.


Well, in this sense it can be called a form of gorvernment too. Even if it is (by definition) the form of government that excludes any sort of conventional government.

Anarchy, as the political project of Anarchism actually is a radically participative/democratic, decentralized and communist reality. In this sense it is a form of government.

● Dictatorship is a republic where there is no democracy.


Actually there can be dictaorships in Monarchies as well. For instance Mussolini's (as prime minister of his puppet majesty) or Saudi Arabia, where the king holds absolute power directly.

● Communism is a system that you can establish in a republic.


As a matter of fact not: Communism as defined by communists is the same as as Anarchy as defined by anarchists. The diference is that anarchists go directly to it (and fail), while communists go through the pragmatic way of the state (and fail equally).

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