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Communism

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Poll Question: Should communist parties reformulate their ideologies?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
7 [21.88%]
6 [18.75%]
2 [6.25%]
17 [53.13%]
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Maju View Drop Down
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Communism
    Posted: 03-Dec-2005 at 20:33
Originally posted by kotumeyil

Maju, you are speaking as if Marxism=parliamentarism, but the essence of Marxism is the social analysis on the base of classes which aims to abolish classes through the class struggle. The means for this can vary such as parlamentarism and "illegalism" and this is a matter of choice, not Marxism itself. I mean that communists, Leninists weren't out of Marxism.


I'm not talking about the analysis. I value a lot Marxist thought as analysis. What I say is that the praxis of Marxism is pragmatical and therefore statist. I never said that Leninists were out of Marxism, I said they were out of Communism, as were Social-Democrats.

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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2005 at 14:19

Originally posted by Maju

But anyhow, remember that communists (Leninists) were a schism from social-democracy and that Marxist social-democracy was central in the evolution of modern European democracies, promoting universal suffrage and other reforms.

You are certainly wrong about Britain at least. Marxism was only one thread, and a minor one, in the development of the British labour movement, or the preceding liberal governments that gradually introduced universal suffrage.

British socialism, in the trades unions as well as in the intelligentsia and elsewhere took most of its inspiration from religion, particularly Methodism and some of the Congregationalist and Quaker societies. 'Syndicalism' - though the word isn't often used in British commentaries; 'trades unionism is more common - was a major force, and so was the co-operative movement.

There were of course Marxists involved in the movement: even Fabians like the Webbs converted somewhat to Mary later on. In particular they rarely gained power in the trades unions, though there were some notable exceptions.

 Eventually they may have abandoned their Marxist tag and the ultimate goal of communism but they used to be Marxists not long ago - some still are.

The famous - or infamous - clause 4 of the Labour party constitution, abandoned only recently uner Tony Blair, summed up the party's economic goal:

"To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service".

This is not a Marxist goal.

 

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  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2005 at 19:41
In theory it is good but in reality it is evil!! Stalin is a great example because like most things the human factor gets in the way.
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
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  Quote Hector Victorious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2005 at 19:46
IF you have not read the Communist manifesto I suggest you do so, It will Enlighten you as to what COmmunism really is...
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2005 at 20:04
Originally posted by gcle2003

Originally posted by Maju

But anyhow, remember that communists (Leninists) were a schism from social-democracy and that Marxist social-democracy was central in the evolution of modern European democracies, promoting universal suffrage and other reforms.

You are certainly wrong about Britain at least.



Well, Britain is not the center of World. It has many peculiarities, as does the USA. But on global history and particularly on European one, I am right.

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Maju View Drop Down
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2005 at 20:07
Originally posted by eaglecap

In theory it is good but in reality it is evil!! Stalin is a great example because like most things the human factor gets in the way.


Well, that happens with Liberalism (Capitalism) too. The theory of the free market may sound good but in practice is just all explotation of the weak by the corrupt... a world of mafia gangs dignified as "corporations".

And, while Stalinism is not the ultimate ideal of Communism, Reaganomics is the ideal of Liberalism indeed.

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  Quote Hector Victorious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2005 at 20:50

So Far in History No one has done communism right with communism you have the ablity to acheive.....

World Peace, Economic equality, Social Equality.... Yet you loose many choices that we make ourselves.

I think the problem in te world today is, Everybody knows were we want to be World Peace, Everyone is free, No rascism, No poverty, and no killing....But we haven't the slightest idea on how to get their. ANd when we do, Good luck getting everyone else to think that way....

Basically it is a lose-lose Situation

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Maju View Drop Down
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2005 at 22:44
Well, at least in two occasions: Makhnoist revolution in Ukraine and Spanish Revolution, true communism has been temporarily achieved. Yet, it has been strangled or massacred. So far it has been too weak against fascism, classical burgueois state and even the Stalinist aberration... I wonder if it would ever triumph and how. 

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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2005 at 15:42
Originally posted by Maju

Originally posted by gcle2003

Originally posted by Maju

But anyhow, remember that communists (Leninists) were a schism from social-democracy and that Marxist social-democracy was central in the evolution of modern European democracies, promoting universal suffrage and other reforms.

You are certainly wrong about Britain at least.



Well, Britain is not the center of World. It has many peculiarities, as does the USA. But on global history and particularly on European one, I am right.

Scandinavia? France?

I don't deny you are right about many places.

(And as for being the centre of the world - have you looked at many world maps lately? )

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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2005 at 15:44
Originally posted by Hector Victorious

So Far in History No one has done communism right with communism you have the ablity to acheive.....

So far in world history has anyone done anything right?

(Sounds like the start of a new thread.)

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