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Communism
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Poll Question: Should communist parties reformulate their ideologies?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
7 [21.88%]
6 [18.75%]
2 [6.25%]
17 [53.13%]
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TheDiplomat View Drop Down
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Posts: 1988 		  Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Communism
    Posted: 19-Nov-2005 at 06:12

Agreed with Spartacus

 
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gcle2003 View Drop Down
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2005 at 10:17

Originally posted by Maju

I'm not sure why you say that complete economic equality is impossible and would like to be illustrated about it.

I don't know why he said it, but i don't think it's even definable let alone possible. The fundamental theoretical difficulty with it is the differing utility placed upon different goods and services by different people.

Should I and my wife both have the same number of visits per year to the hairdresser? Should I have the same ration of cheese as everyone else - given I can't eat it without getting sick? Should I get an extra ration of salami instead?

What do you actually MEAN, practically, by 'complete economic equality'?

 
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Posts: 691 		  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2005 at 11:18
I think that promoting a boss state that overlooks and possesses all economy in its hands is bad and withers economic development. Private investment is essential. People will always want to earn more if they can. It's natural. The state should have social concerns, of course. Should prevent the growth of inequalities. But it shouldn't be the (thus far seen) communist boss state. Then, it is the state who is wealthy and corrupt and there is no one above it!
An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur?
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Maju View Drop Down
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Posts: 6565 		  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2005 at 12:27
Well, by definition Communism and state are incompatible, specifically  in Marxist thought.

Communism is the ideal goal in which workers' communities own and administer their means of production, as well as the rest of aspects of life. The USSR and the other so-called "communist" countries never reached that stage: Lenin was satisfied with having brought Russia into a burgueois state with the NEP, Stalin instead went farther and made of russia a purely Socialist state. But the communist stage has not yet been reached but by the primitive tribes or maybe some lucky agrarian communities.

In a sense Libertarian and Marxist communists share the same goal, whose main inspiration was maybe the Commune of Paris of 1871, but in practical terms, Marxists abandoned the goal for effectivity, wether as Social-Democrats or as Leninists. When the finger points at the Moon, the idiot looks at the finger.

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Posts: 3987 		  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2005 at 13:27
We learn so much about each other in these forums. Here I am, thinking that Infidel was a conservative, yet he writes himself how he is almost a Communist!

Onward, Comrade Infidel!
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Posts: 691 		  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2005 at 14:51

Originally posted by Infidel

I think that promoting a boss state that overlooks and possesses all economy in its hands is bad and withers economic development. Private investment is essential. People will always want to earn more if they can. It's natural. The state should have social concerns, of course. Should prevent the growth of inequalities. But it shouldn't be the (thus far seen) communist boss state. Then, it is the state who is wealthy and corrupt and there is no one above it!

I, almost a communist? Thank you, but I don't want to be one of your brothers-in-arms.

An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur?
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Posts: 65 		  Quote Genghis Khan II Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2005 at 16:48

Communisum is a lousy atempt to make socialism work. socialism is the perfect form of goverment in theory but in reality it is stoped by greed and imperfection. Communisum tries to discipline people to make them perfect (Acording to my encyclopedia)

It should disapear because it is impossible to do so
Evolution is dead they just forgot to bury the body.

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Posts: 3987 		  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2005 at 18:23
Originally posted by Infidel

Originally posted by Infidel

I think that promoting a boss state that overlooks and possesses all economy in its hands is bad and withers economic development. Private investment is essential. People will always want to earn more if they can. It's natural. The state should have social concerns, of course. Should prevent the growth of inequalities. But it shouldn't be the (thus far seen) communist boss state. Then, it is the state who is wealthy and corrupt and there is no one above it!


I, almost a communist? Thank you, but I don't want to be one of your brothers-in-arms.



Well I am not a communist, but you and the person who started this list share IP addresses. They even share the same same rhetorical style. Some would say that they are the same person.

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Infidel View Drop Down
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Posts: 691 		  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2005 at 18:36

Originally posted by hugoestr

Well I am not a communist, but you and the person who started this list share IP addresses. They even share the same same rhetorical style. Some would say that they are the same person.

Well, those people are wrong. But if you do care to know, there are four people in this house sharing the same internet connection. We are not that wealthy so we share the bill! The signal is routed to four different computers. You are right, we do share the same IP adress!

As for the rhetorical style of the person who started this thread, who happens to be my cousin, that is of his own responsibility. If he wants to participate, that's his own business. I won't say Well, don't do that! We have the same IP so people will start thinking we're the same!   
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Infidel View Drop Down
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Posts: 691 		  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2005 at 18:39
Oh, furthermore, he is a Buddhist while I'm a Muslim! The other two guys are atheist AFAIK.
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Posts: 3987 		  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2005 at 22:58
Let's assume that what you say is true.
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Infidel View Drop Down
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Posts: 691 		  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2005 at 23:24

Well, we're all assuming here. I can assume many things about yourself as well. Generally I assume people are telling the truth, until proven otherwise. Perhaps you show another attitude towards it.

I must say I find your accusations quite diminishing for some of the Editorial Staff, though.



Edited by Infidel
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cattus View Drop Down
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Posts: 1803 		  Quote cattus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2005 at 23:36
Infidel, hugoestr is not only on the Editorial Staff, but the moderator of this forum.
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Infidel View Drop Down
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Posts: 691 		  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2005 at 23:43

Originally posted by cattus

Infidel, hugoestr is not only on the Editorial Staff, but the moderator of this forum.

Well, it just makes his accusations even more diminishing, then
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cattus View Drop Down
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Posts: 1803 		  Quote cattus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2005 at 23:56
Not so. Dual accounts are forbidden on AE, he noticed the same IPs. He was not rude when pointing this out so I would not worry about it.
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Infidel View Drop Down
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Posts: 691 		  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2005 at 00:22

His approach:

Originally posted by hugoestr

but you and the person who started this list share IP addresses. They even share the same same rhetorical style. Some would say that they are the same person.

After my explanation:

Originally posted by hugoestr

Let's assume what you say is true

No, you're right. He was not rude. He managed to be subtly insulting



Edited by Infidel
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jfmff View Drop Down
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Posts: 188 		  Quote jfmff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2005 at 00:28
The discussion is geting out of topic. Personaly I think this should be dealt in private.
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TheOrcRemix View Drop Down
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Posts: 369 		  Quote TheOrcRemix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2005 at 01:33
agreed
True peace is not the absence of tension, but the presence of justice.
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Maju View Drop Down
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Posts: 6565 		  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2005 at 02:43
Back on topic...

Originally posted by gcle2003

Originally posted by Maju

I'm not sure why you say that complete economic equality is impossible and would like to be illustrated about it.

I don't know why he said it, but i don't think it's even definable let alone possible. The fundamental theoretical difficulty with it is the differing utility placed upon different goods and services by different people.

Should I and my wife both have the same number of visits per year to the hairdresser? Should I have the same ration of cheese as everyone else - given I can't eat it without getting sick? Should I get an extra ration of salami instead?

What do you actually MEAN, practically, by 'complete economic equality'?



I think is all about if the resources are limited, for instance housing, it should be divided equally according to each one's objective needs. I also don't think that economic rewards should be the main motivation of work and study, but rather creative rewards and of course the communitarian reward of respect and solidarity.

As all resources but air (so far) are limited, they should be allocated equally. I don't see why Michael Jackson can have such a huge villa while so many people live in slums. Doesn't Jackson have enough with fame and recognition of his talent? (Before the scandals, of course). Why can he afford such expensive and unnecesary plastic surgery when many people doen't have even vaccines? Why some have 3 or 4 cars when others don't own even shoes?

It is clear, that while some freedom of consume must be allowed, first is to provide everyone of their basic needs, both material and intelectual. And also to achieve participative and powerful local and wider communities where the abilities of each one can be put to work for the benefit of all.

NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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TheDiplomat View Drop Down
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Posts: 1988 		  Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2005 at 07:40

American textbooks are not the correct choices for studying communism..

 
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